News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Tha Realest]

Yeah, so the “didn’t mail notice” Hail Mary is clearly not going to work. If Disney provided the contract to the district to be read at the meeting then they clearly had notice it existed.

But the sole landowner isn’t just “Disney.”

As someone posted earlier, here are the previously recognized land owners within RCID. Now are some auxiliaries of “Disney?” Perhaps. But many are not. Shouldn’t be difficult to find out, for example, if the FL DOT was mailed a notice of intent as required by law.

 

[LAKid53]

I don’t disagree that without RCID Disney would have most likely just built the garages themselves, but option A would not be unheard of either. Universal is having the county build them a road to their new park (splitting the cost) and the county will I assume be paying for their portion with municipal debt.

Any idea how that debt will be retired?

 

[lazyboy97o]

But the sole landowner isn’t just “Disney.”

As someone posted earlier, here are the previously recognized land owners within RCID:

”The property is defined as the following property less and except any portions of the following property that are, as of the Effective Date of this Agreement, owned in fee simple by a party other than Reedy Creek Improvement District or Master Developer.”

 

[GBAB1973]

The two are unrelated.

I'm pleased to see a repeal of corporate welfare. I'm not bothered that the reason for the repeal of the corporate welfare is a petty political squabble.

Again, define "corporate welfare".

The benefits Disney gets from having their own district isn't really tied to tax breaks or exemptions, it was tied to having control over their land and infrastructure projects. That's the real value in the district (as it is in other districts such as the various ones the comprise The Villages, for example). And it operated smoothly and efficiently for decades. So I am struggling to find the corporate welfare angle here.

By a strict definition, corporate welfare is direct payments or subsidies bestowed on a corporation. That's really not happening here. What was bestowed to Disney was simply control over how they operated their lands.

 

[LAKid53]

But the sole landowner isn’t just “Disney.”

As someone posted earlier, here are the previously recognized land owners within RCID. Now are some auxiliaries of “Disney?” Perhaps. But many are not. Shouldn’t be difficult to find out, for example, if the FL DOT was mailed a notice of intent as required by law. View attachment 710976

Good luck getting that info out of DOT.

 

[GoofGoof]

But the sole landowner isn’t just “Disney.”

As someone posted earlier, here are the previously recognized land owners within RCID. Now are some auxiliaries of “Disney?” Perhaps. But many are not. Shouldn’t be difficult to find out, for example, if the FL DOT was mailed a notice of intent as required by law. View attachment 710976

The post I quoted spells out that the agreement does not impact the land owned by anyone other than Disney and RCID.

 

[jpeden]

It should be pretty easy to establish whether or not they were mailed the development agreement that was voted on in January and February of this year.

A simple email or phone call would do.

I believe the relevant statute says that mailing the notice is required, but failure to mail the notice in and of itself is not grounds to invalidate any agreement related to the said notice IF the meeting was properly noticed as required.

The meeting was properly noticed in the Orlando Sentinel as required by law. This “didn’t mail” Hail Mary absolutely does not pass legal muster. Even if they found a sympathetic judge in Florida, this thing is going to end up in federal court and no federal judge is going to undo 230+ years of contract law precedence.

 

[LAKid53]

Again, define "corporate welfare".

The benefits Disney gets from having their own district isn't really tied to tax breaks or exemptions, it was tied to having control over their land and infrastructure projects. That's the real value in the district (as it is in other districts such as the various ones the comprise The Villages, for example). And it operated smoothly and efficiently for decades. So I am struggling to find the corporate welfare angle here.

By a strict definition, corporate welfare is direct payments or subsidies bestowed on a corporation. That's really not happening here. What was bestowed to Disney was simply control over how they operated their lands.

Agree.

 

[GBAB1973]

Agree.

Capt later said "corporate welfare" doesn't have to involve monetary benefits but reducing red tape others have to face.

OK, well The Villages operates as a special district. They also avoid the red tape that others face in terms of how they operate their properties. Using Capt's logic, The Villages districts should have been shut down too. And yet they weren't. Not hard to figure out why.

This isn't about ending "corporate welfare" in FL.

 

[GoofGoof]

I believe the relevant statute says that mailing the notice is required, but failure to mail the notice in and of itself is not grounds to invalidate any agreement related to the said notice IF the meeting was properly noticed as required.

The meeting was properly noticed in the Orlando Sentinel as required by law. This “didn’t mail” Hail Mary absolutely does not pass legal muster. Even if they found a sympathetic judge in Florida, this thing is going to end up in federal court and no federal judge is going to undo 230+ years of contract law precedence.

The statute only requires that the mailing go to affected landowners. @lazyboy97o posted the section of the agreement that exempts any landowner other than Disney and RCID from the agreement. Therefore the only person the district would need to mail the notice to would be Disney who clearly already had notice.

 

[LAKid53]

I believe the relevant statute says that mailing the notice is required, but failure to mail the notice in and of itself is not grounds to invalidate any agreement related to the said notice IF the meeting was properly noticed as required.

The meeting was properly noticed in the Orlando Sentinel as required by law. This “didn’t mail” Hail Mary absolutely does not pass legal muster. Even if they found a sympathetic judge in Florida, this thing is going to end up in federal court and no federal judge is going to undo 230+ years of contract law precedence.

I meant call or email those required to be noticed to check IF they received said required notice.

I'm beginning to think the new Board doesn't know what it's doing and just throwing things out there. I'm pretty sure staff at RCID knew what their legal obligations were regarding notice.

 

[LAKid53]

Capt later said "corporate welfare" doesn't have to involve monetary benefits but reducing red tape others have to face.

OK, well The Villages operates as a special district. They also avoid the red tape that others face in terms of how they operate their properties. Using Capt's logic, The Villages districts should have been shut down too. And yet they weren't. Not hard to figure out why.

There are over 1800 special districts in the state.

 

[GoofGoof]

There are over 1800 special districts in the state.

And special districts aren’t unique to FL. This type of arrangement exists in different forms in many places.

 

[LAKid53]

And special districts aren’t unique to FL. This type of arrangement exists in different forms in many places.

But we are talking just about Florida.

 

[Rich Brownn]

The state shouldn't stop because right now you have one company that operates under a special setup which gives it an advantage over the other companies. If I were Universal or Seaworld I would hate to see Florida back off and allow Disney to maintain their advantage. Would you like it if the state you lived in gave your neighbor a lower tax rate for life?

Did you miss where Disney actually pays more taxes? Not only that but if RCID didn't exist, Universal would be paying taxes for Disney's roads.

 

[Stripes]

But the sole landowner isn’t just “Disney.”

As someone posted earlier, here are the previously recognized land owners within RCID. Now are some auxiliaries of “Disney?” Perhaps. But many are not. Shouldn’t be difficult to find out, for example, if the FL DOT was mailed a notice of intent as required by law. View attachment 710976

Disney subsidiaries:

Walt Disney Parks and Resorts U.S., Inc.
Flamingo Crossings, LLC
Golden Oak Development, LLC
The Celebration Company
Palm Hospitality
ARDC-Ocala

The others are not Disney.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I believe the relevant statute says that mailing the notice is required, but failure to mail the notice in and of itself is not grounds to invalidate any agreement related to the said notice IF the meeting was properly noticed as required.

The meeting was properly noticed in the Orlando Sentinel as required by law. This “didn’t mail” Hail Mary absolutely does not pass legal muster. Even if they found a sympathetic judge in Florida, this thing is going to end up in federal court and no federal judge is going to undo 230+ years of contract law precedence.

That caveat is not in statute 163.3225 itself.

“ (2)(a) Notice of intent to consider a development agreement shall be advertised approximately 7 days before each public hearing in a newspaper of general circulation and readership in the county where the local government is located. Notice of intent to consider a development agreement shall also be mailed to all affected property owners before the first public hearing. The day, time, and place at which the second public hearing will be held shall be announced at the first public hearing.”

 

[Rich Brownn]

They could have once they gained Disney as a taxpayer.

If developing the resort infrastructure cost $X and RCID paid for it by taxing Disney $X, then Orange County could have built the exact same infrastructure, also by taxing Disney $X.

Except those were built with taxes in addition to taxes the county collected. Without RCID Orange County would still get the same taxes they do now but they would also have to pick up the tab for all roads, utilities etc. that Dianey now pays for through RCID. In other words Orange would get less money to cover more stuff. And no, they simply couldn't have doubled their taxes. Orange couldn't even get a penny tax passed.

 

[peter11435]

Disney subsidiaries:

Walt Disney Parks and Resorts U.S., Inc.
Flamingo Crossings, LLC
Golden Oak Development, LLC
The Celebration Company
Palm Hospitality
ARDC-Ocala

The others are not Disney.

Several of the others are actually the former board members of RCID.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

A state prison? No. The Legislature trying to nullify Disneys contract with RCID? Yes.

I’m worried DeSantis and the Legislature will win this battle and kill the contract.