News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[LAKid53]

Did you miss where Disney actually pays more taxes? Not only that but if RCID didn't exist, Universal would be paying taxes for Disney's roads.

Uh, guess what, Universal resides in a special district created to "providing more housing and cultural arts opportunities, improving long-term transportation needs, and encouraging retail development..." The special section that Uni sits in focuses on transportation.

Florida special tax districts like Disney’s Reedy Creek, explained

Hillsborough County has more special districts than any other county in Florida.

www.tampabay.com

Community Redevelopment Agency

Community Redevelopment Agency

www.downtownorlando.com

 

[LAKid53]

Except those were built with taxes in addition to taxes the county collected. Without RCID Orange County would still get the same taxes they do now but they would also have to pick up the tab for all roads, utilities etc. that Dianey now pays for through RCID. In other words Orange would get less money to cover more stuff. And no, they simply couldn't have doubled their taxes. Orange couldn't even get a penny tax passed.

Sales tax in the county is 6.5%. That 0.5% is the penny option which goes to the county.

 

[GBAB1973]

They could have once they gained Disney as a taxpayer.

If developing the resort infrastructure cost $X and RCID paid for it by taxing Disney $X, then Orange County could have built the exact same infrastructure, also by taxing Disney $X.

Not really.

Law sets limitations on property taxes. Orange and Osceola Counties couldn't just decide to charge Disney more property taxes at a rate higher than other property owners.

Disney pays more in taxes when you add the property taxes they pay to the county PLUS the taxes they pay to the RCID. So no, the counties could not have charged Disney their regular property taxes + whatever the RCID assessed in taxes.

 

[GBAB1973]

Except those were built with taxes in addition to taxes the county collected. Without RCID Orange County would still get the same taxes they do now but they would also have to pick up the tab for all roads, utilities etc. that Dianey now pays for through RCID. In other words Orange would get less money to cover more stuff. And no, they simply couldn't have doubled their taxes. Orange couldn't even get a penny tax passed.

Plus Disney has fought and won property tax appeals with Orange County in the past. I saw some suggest that the county would just jack their assessments of the Disney properties to increase the taxes paid but that appears to be a non-starter.

The tax situation is one of the issues the state legislature and DeSantis have purposely been muddying up. There are many that think Disney paid no taxes to the counties upon the creation of the RCID. Hence the cries of "pay their fair share". They already do. Technically, they pay more.

 

[LAKid53]

Not really.

Law dictates how much the counties can tax property holders.

Disney pays more in taxes when you add the property taxes they pay to the county PLUS the taxes they pay to the RCID. So no, the counties could not have charged Disney their regular property taxes + whatever the RCID assessed in taxes.

They can...with a special district. And here we are again.

 

[LAKid53]

Plus Disney has fought and won property tax appeals with Orange County in the past. I saw some suggest that the county would just jack their assessments of the Disney properties to increase the taxes paid but that appears to be a non-starter.

The tax situation is one of the issues the state legislature and DeSantis have purposely been muddying up. There are many that think Disney paid no taxes to the counties upon the creation of the RCID. Hence the cries of "pay their fair share". They already do. Technically, they pay more.

Based on assessed value. Which any property owner is entitled to do.

But yes, TWDC has been paying property taxes. And the "tax" assessed by RCID on the property it owns within the District.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Any idea when this site started? Had not seen it before.

Using the wayback machine, can see they added that Company Highlights section on April 5th.

Here is December 1st 2022:

Here is April 5th, 2022:

 

[Rich Brownn]

Sales tax in the county is 6.5%. That 0.5% is the penny option which goes to the county.

'm talking about the penny tax for mass transit. It was defeated.

 

[GBAB1973]

They can...with a special district. And here we are again.

LOL. Yep.

But there are a lot of people out there believing Disney paid little to no taxes and if the RCID went away, the counties would just start taxing them. Many had no idea that Disney, in fact, was still paying property taxes to the two counties.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Several of the others are actually the former board members of RCID.

Any idea what Palm Hospitality and ARDC is?

 

[MrPromey]

Did you read the article that's been cited several times about how and why the RCID was created? It's long, but it speaks expressly to the parties wanting exactly what you're talking about.

I don't know. I've been reading stuff about this since the late 80's when I first became aware of it - back when you had to go to a library to find out these things. I was a really dorky kid who wanted to be an Imagineer.*

Reams of stuff have been written recently so... maybe?

Anyway, I know why it was created - what it provided, how Disney kept it going with "residents", etc and recall negative local public sentiment when an issue related to a limit on the issuing of public bonds that came up back in the 90's where it was like a "lottery" of some sort** and RCID got the right to issue them, beating out another municipality that wanted to be able to issue bonds for construction of a public housing project and one paper referred to Disney as "The Grinch That Stole Low Cost Housing" so I know things haven't always been completely rosy but I think on the whole, it's been beneficial to just about everyone. - sorry that was before anything of substance was on the www so I can't cite the article or provide clearer details but I've never forgotten that newspaper quote.

I know there are a lot of sudden experts around here like there are with any new thing that comes up in the news about Disney and I don't claim to be such an expert, sudden or otherwise but RCID isn't anything new to me.

I'm not into looking up tax payments or property lines or statutes and such so I'll leave that to the people who do seem to enjoy it but my main point was, I can see how someone could look at their arrangement with RCID isn't "fair". I think fair is entirely subjective and despite me not being the biggest fan of the property in recent years, I've always looked positively at the RCID arrangement and was not happy to see it all get screwed up by a vindictive governor that they are, of course, going to outlast.


*who grew into a really dorky adult who comes here to pretend he is, sometimes.

** This was like... 30 years ago. I'm going purely off memory to something I read in a waiting room at a Dr. Office with my mom so anyone who wants to tell me there is no such thing as a "lottery" for that sort of thing - fine, I'm probably describing that wrong but the gist was, RCID got to issue the bonds, for the benefit of Disney while another municipality who had what some might call, a more noble use to them, couldn't, as a result.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

What a statute!

163.3241 Modification or revocation of a development agreement to comply with subsequently enacted state and federal law.—If state or federal laws are enacted after the execution of a development agreement which are applicable to and preclude the parties’ compliance with the terms of a development agreement, such agreement shall be modified or revoked as is necessary to comply with the relevant state or federal laws.​

A development agreement is a contract. Per the Contract Clause, the state does not have the authority to modify or revoke a contract. From the U.S. Constitution:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.​

On the face of it, Florida statute 163.3241 would seem to be unconstitutional.

My assumption is that the statute is intended to apply to rare situations where the terms of the contract involve a specific act that is later outlawed. For example, if FL had legalized recreational marijuana under a Dem-controlled legislature but the new legislature criminalized it. A special district may have signed a contract granting a business the right to build and operate a dispensary, but the new law would make that impossible to do legally so the contract would be voided. It seems that the only way the governor and legislature could even attempt to void the co tract u Der that statute would be to make all such agreements illegal - and even that would likely be overturned by the courts since there's no way to argue that the law wouldn't illegally interfere with valid contracts.

 

[LAKid53]

'm talking about the penny tax for mass transit. It was defeated.

The statutes allow local governments to charge up to an additional 1.5% on top of the 6% state sales taxes. The local government, with approval of voters in the county, decides how those extra tax revenues will be spent - transportation, roads, parks, storm water systems, schools.

It's unfortunate that residents in Orange County didn't approve the additional 1%. 45 of the 67 counties have approved the maximum additional 1.5%.

 

[Chi84]

I don't know. I've been reading stuff about this since the late 80's when I first became aware of it - back when you had to go to a library to find out these things. I was a really dorky kid who wanted to be an Imagineer.*

Reams of stuff have been written recently so... maybe?

Anyway, I know why it was created - what it provided, how Disney kept it going with "residents", etc and recall negative local public sentiment when an issue related to a limit on the issuing of public bonds that came up back in the 90's where it was like a "lottery" and RCID got the right to issue them, beating out another municipality that wanted to be able to issue bonds for construction of a low-cost housing project and one paper referred to Disney as "The Grinch That Stole Public Housing" so I know things haven't always been completely rosy but I think on the whole, it's been beneficial to just about everyone. - sorry that was before anything of substance was on the www so I can't cite the article or provide clearer details but I've never forgotten that newspaper quote.

I know there are a lot of sudden experts around here like there are with any new thing that comes up in the news about Disney and I don't claim to be such an expert, sudden or otherwise but RCID isn't anything new to me.

I'm not into looking up tax payments or property lines or statutes and such so I'll leave that to the people who do seem to enjoy it but my main point was, I can see how someone could look at their arrangement with RCID isn't "fair". I think fair is entirely subjective and despite me not being the biggest fan of the property in recent years, I've always looked positively at the RCID arrangement and was not happy to see it all get screwed up by a vindictive goveneor that they are, of course, going to outlast.


*who grew into a really dorky adult who comes here to pretend he is, sometimes.

Yeah but those boring things like taxes and property lines and statutes and stuff are probably more relevant than what you personally remember happening. This is the article. It’s informative and well-written.

https://ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1123&context=lr

 

[hopemax]

I wonder if any states are talking to Disney behind the scenes about granting incentives to open a new park in their states? A third US park is highly unlikely but if a state could convince them it would be very smart move from a tourism perspective.

After the garage debacle and the hotel debacle I thought Disney would be crazy to invest any more than necessary (to maintain current attendance) in Anaheim, now I think they’d be crazy to invest any more money than necessary in FL either.

The fact they’re working towards Disneyland forward proves Disney forgives and forgets political battles, so Orlando likely won’t suffer from this long term, but I’d be looking for a more friendly environment to invest in if I were Disney.

Our Governor, here in CO, offered when the whole thing started. I'd love to find out if there have been any real discussions about some entertainment venture. Not full 3rd resort, but something more akin to what Universal is doing in TX or in your neck of the woods. Disney's problem is that the best places for additional development are probably Texas or Missouri / Kentucky / Tennessee and those states have their own issues these days. Or up north, where weather and CA type regulations are an issue.

 

[MrPromey]

Yeah but those boring things like taxes and property lines and statutes and stuff are probably more relevant than what you personally remember happening. This is the article. It’s informative and well-written.

https://ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1123&context=lr

I'll give it a read but just curious - what's your stance, having, I assume, read that?

 

[Bullseye1967]

My understanding that the only private roads on property are those that lead directly into a park.

There are several roads on property that are private other than the ones you mentioned. Where Sherbeth road ends and Black Lake road starts, it is CM's only. Maple road at Floridian place (RCID Fire Station 3) is private (guard shack) as it leads to the 15 Disney underground fireworks magazines. I can give you multiple other facilities areas that are off limits to guests.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Any idea when this site started? Had not seen it before.

Domain Name: disneyconnect.com
Registry Domain ID: 695103974_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.corporatedomains.com
Registrar URL: www.cscprotectsbrands.com
Updated Date: 2022-10-20T03:08:39Z
Creation Date: 2006-12-03T18:08:15Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2023-12-03T23:08:15Z
Registrar: CSC CORPORATE DOMAINS, INC.
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 299
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:

@cscglobal.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8887802723
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Disney Enterprises, Inc.; Domain Administrator
Registrant Organization: Disney Enterprises, Inc.
Registrant Street: 500 South Buena Vista Street, Mail Code 8029
Registrant City: Burbank
Registrant State/Province: CA
Registrant Postal Code: 91521-8029
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.8182384694
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +1.8182384694
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email:

@disney.com
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: Disney Enterprises, Inc.; Domain Administrator
Admin Organization: Disney Enterprises, Inc.
Admin Street: 500 South Buena Vista Street, Mail Code 8029
Admin City: Burbank
Admin State/Province: CA
Admin Postal Code: 91521-8029
Admin Country: US
Admin Phone: +1.8182384694
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +1.8182384694
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:

@disney.com
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: Disney Enterprises, Inc.; Domain Administrator
Tech Organization: Disney Enterprises, Inc.
Tech Street: 500 South Buena Vista Street, Mail Code 8029
Tech City: Burbank
Tech State/Province: CA
Tech Postal Code: 91521-8029
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.8182384694
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +1.8182384694
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:

@disney.com

 

[Bullseye1967]

Disney has launched a website that essentially highlights the contributions the company makes to Central Florida and Florida as a whole. There’s also a section that talks about the Reedy Creek situation.

Disney in Florida

At Walt Disney World Resort we are honored to be part of the Central Florida community. Explore how we create a brighter future for our region.

disneyconnect.com

Reedy Creek situation:

Reedy Creek: The Facts You Need in 2024 - Disney in Florida

What is Reedy Creek – Central Florida Tourism Oversight District The Central Florida Tourism Oversight District (formerly known as Reedy Creek Improvement District or RCID) is a special taxing district that was established by the Florida State Legislature in 1967 to provide and manage municipal...

disneyconnect.com

I seen this site before but it has been around a bit.

Domain Name: disneyconnect.com
Registry Domain ID: 695103974_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.corporatedomains.com
Registrar URL: www.cscprotectsbrands.com
Updated Date: 2022-10-20T03:08:39Z
Creation Date: 2006-12-03T18:08:15Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2023-12-03T23:08:15Z
Registrar: CSC CORPORATE DOMAINS, INC.
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 299
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:

@cscglobal.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8887802723
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Disney Enterprises, Inc.; Domain Administrator
Registrant Organization: Disney Enterprises, Inc.
Registrant Street: 500 South Buena Vista Street, Mail Code 8029
Registrant City: Burbank
Registrant State/Province: CA
Registrant Postal Code: 91521-8029
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.8182384694
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +1.8182384694
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email:

@disney.com
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: Disney Enterprises, Inc.; Domain Administrator
Admin Organization: Disney Enterprises, Inc.
Admin Street: 500 South Buena Vista Street, Mail Code 8029
Admin City: Burbank
Admin State/Province: CA
Admin Postal Code: 91521-8029
Admin Country: US
Admin Phone: +1.8182384694
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +1.8182384694
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:

@disney.com
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: Disney Enterprises, Inc.; Domain Administrator
Tech Organization: Disney Enterprises, Inc.
Tech Street: 500 South Buena Vista Street, Mail Code 8029
Tech City: Burbank
Tech State/Province: CA
Tech Postal Code: 91521-8029
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.8182384694
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +1.8182384694
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:

@disney.com

 

[MrPromey]

I don’t disagree that without RCID Disney would have most likely just built the garages themselves, but option A would not be unheard of either. Universal is having the county build them a road to their new park (splitting the cost) and the county will I assume be paying for their portion with municipal debt.

But around two decades ago, Universal did build their own massive garages.

I wonder if Disney had built them, if they'd still be free to park in.

I suspect if the county had built them, we wouldn't have those nifty sensors and lights that tell us if a space is open... and there'd probably be a fee to park.