News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

peter11435

Well-Known Member
I suppose what this comes down to is that I don't necessarily like the idea that broad development agreements are legally permissible, largely because individual/personal landowners would almost certainly not have the ability to take advantage of those same benefits.
if you purchased every house in your HOA you too would have nearly full control. If you purchased every parcel in your city you too would have full development control and would largely have governmental power provided you were acting within established laws and following codes and regulations. You’d be able to single handedly elect your board/commission/representatives too.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to hear the answer to that from someone who has read the contract in full and understands it. I personally haven't had the opportunity to do so; I'm only going based on other members' interpretations.


Because, put simply, if I want to so much as add a fence to my backyard, I have to get approvals from my city, the HOA and the CDD. That's my property, and I should be able to do it if I wish. If I were Disney, though, at least according to the interpretations and posts of other members recently, I would be able to put up that fence without asking anyone, or if I did have to ask, they'd be contractually obligated to say yes.

Why should Disney, Universal, or whatever other large organization be able to circumvent government processes that individual/personal landowners have to deal with?

ETA: A 5th gate would have major impacts on the infrastructure beyond the district's boundaries, so they should absolutely have to go through extensive review with the counties and the state.
You are assuming that your experience is universal when it is not. The particulars of building and development vary by local jurisdiction. Even within a single jurisdiction the process can vary even amongst neighboring parcels of property.

Not having to go through development review is not something just afforded to large companies and developers. It is also offered to individuals. The particulars of either depend on the specific location.

Islands of Adventure had impacts beyond the City of Orlando, but the decision to allow a second gate at Universal Studios Florida was entirely up to the City. Orange County had no say despite being impacted. Osceola County has been impacted by Walt Disney World, but if the District and municipalities had never been created, the county would have had no say on any of the parks because they are within Orange County. If Herschend made huge investments into Wild Adventures it might Ave impacts in Florida who would get no say. That’s just the nature of political boundaries. Unless you’re talking about significantly curtailing development and changing the nature of political subdivisions you’re always going to have situations where impacts can extend beyond their originating jurisdiction.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I suppose what this comes down to is that I don't necessarily like the idea that broad development agreements are legally permissible, largely because individual/personal landowners would almost certainly not have the ability to take advantage of those same benefits.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, as it seems you are very well-read on this subject, but I don't think that even if it were legally possible, it would be practical, given the legal and monetary resources necessary to secure all these agreements with the various governmental agencies.
So to sum this up you support more government oversight and less control for corporations. That’s a valid viewpoint, but historically speaking not the way most statutes in FL were setup. The state up until very recently had a strong desire to be business friendly and to attract new business to the state. One of the main ways to do that is to simplify and/or reduce regulations. Working for a company that develops projects all over the country I can tell you that in a place like CA with too much government oversight it’s really hard to get anything done. I don’t think it’s a good idea to let corporations do whatever they want. Obviously if the company wants to do something that would be dangerous or harmful to the local community it should be stopped but I can’t see how Disney building a new hotel or a 5th gate could possibly be viewed as harmful to citizens.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And they are still bound by zoning, building codes, environmental impact studies, and hundreds of other land use and safe building restrictions, it’s not like Disney can just do whatever they want now because RCiD signed away its direct oversight, they are still bound by all the same codes as other builders.
The land development agreement locked in place the zoning and land use regulations. Things like the building code are still overseen by the District. Zoning was important because the standards and precedent are less defined and consistent. It would have been the easiest, most normal way for the Board to interfere with Walt Disney World.
 

mf1972

Well-Known Member
To keep things a little bit light….it turns out we found out who the new sheriff in town is:

View attachment 708173View attachment 708174
F604A44E-D332-4018-96DF-E94FE8F0CD1E.jpeg
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
So to sum this up you support more government oversight and less control for corporations. That’s a valid viewpoint, but historically speaking not the way most statutes in FL were setup. The state up until very recently had a strong desire to be business friendly and to attract new business to the state. One of the main ways to do that is to simplify and/or reduce regulations. Working for a company that develops projects all over the country I can tell you that in a place like CA with too much government oversight it’s really hard to get anything done. I don’t think it’s a good idea to let corporations do whatever they want.
Agreed. I'd like to see developmental control reigned in a bit in Florida, especially given the urban sprawl happening across the state with little to no regard for the infrastructure, but certainly not to the point that we get to be like CA where you can't break ground on anything in less than 10 years.

Obviously if the company wants to do something that would be dangerous or harmful to the local community it should be stopped but I can’t see how Disney building a new hotel or a 5th gate could possibly be viewed as harmful to citizens.
I don't think a potential 5th gate would be harmful, per-se. To be sure, in the long run, it would be a net benefit to the Central FL community. After all, how many people are going to come visit Orlando for Epic Universe when it opens? Those tax dollars and revenue to local businesses will be a win. I just think that, when speaking to a 5th gate specifically, that's a way different project in terms of impact and scope than, let's say, a new overpass for the MK resort area.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
So you're speculating. Even that article is speculating, and there are examples of non unanimous votes.

I highly suspect that if Disney evicted someone for not playing ball, that would make headlines and probably result in a civil rights lawsuit.
Since there are no documented cases of it, yes, I am speculating, as are others who have studied this topic a lot more closely than any of us have.

I disagree that it would make headlines, at least in years past. Disney's PR machine can and has quashed negative press before. Whether they would be able quash a story like that now due to the advent of social media and increased national attention paid to them (and with it, national outlets), remains to be seen. The company could also, in theory, propose a "hush money" agreement to the affected individual in exchange for indemnification.

All of this to say, it might have happened before when there was not as much national media attention paid to Disney and there wasn't social media, but if it were to happen today, I'd bet it would come out.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Since there are no documented cases of it, yes, I am speculating, as are others who have studied this topic a lot more closely than any of us have.

I disagree that it would make headlines, at least in years past. Disney's PR machine can and has quashed negative press before. Whether they would be able quash a story like that now due to the advent of social media and increased national attention paid to them (and with it, national outlets), remains to be seen. The company could also, in theory, propose a "hush money" agreement to the affected individual in exchange for indemnification.

All of this to say, it might have happened before when there was not as much national media attention paid to Disney and there wasn't social media, but if it were to happen today, I'd bet it would come out.
Overall, I think my objection you your points here are that, while it is perfectly valid to hold the opinion that there should be more government oversight over corporate land development (which I disagree with, but that point of view is reasonable), it is not legitimate to say Disney did something shady by making use of standard agreements and processes that are contemplated by law.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I don't think a potential 5th gate would be harmful, per-se. To be sure, in the long run, it would be a net benefit to the Central FL community. After all, how many people are going to come visit Orlando for Epic Universe when it opens? Those tax dollars and revenue to local businesses will be a win. I just think that, when speaking to a 5th gate specifically, that's a way different project in terms of impact and scope than, let's say, a new overpass for the MK resort area.
I don’t disagree it’s a different scope. However, I would say a 3rd gate at Universal has a lot more likelihood of impact residents than a 5th gate at WDW. Epic Universe is close to a lot of other property. I don’t know where the 5th gate would go at WDW but it won’t likely be anywhere near as close to other properties as Universal’s new gate. Disney still has the blessing of size which is a curse in a lot of ways too.

If we are looking at this situation and trying to see what actual harm could come I just don’t see Disney having this agreement as high risk. Through 50+ years they had almost total control with RCID and they didn‘t use that control for harm. If anything they used it to greatly benefit the citizens of FL and particularly the local citizens. I see no reason that would change now.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
Overall, I think my objection you your points here are that, while it is perfectly valid to hold the opinion that there should be more government oversight over corporate land development, it is not legitimate to say Disney did something shady by making use of standard agreements and processes that are contemplated by law.
Agreed, in fact, I don't fault Disney for taking advantage of potentially beneficial legal avenues contemplated by law, I commend them for doing so. Much in the same way that I laugh in the virtual faces of politicians who scream and yell at "rich people" who take advantage of tax loopholes to reduce their tax liability, which the screaming politicians themselves have the authority to close.

Back to Disney, I don't like that it was an option for them in the first place, but I blame DeSantis and Co. for leaving such avenues open.

In hindsight, I should have probably used a less emotionally charged word, instead of shady. Perhaps "clever."
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Overall, I think my objection you your points here are that, while it is perfectly valid to hold the opinion that there should be more government oversight over corporate land development (which I disagree with, but that point of view is reasonable), it is not legitimate to say Disney did something shady by making use of standard agreements and processes that are contemplated by law.
It wasn’t shady. It was actually utilizing the most mundane and boring aspects of contract law and statutes in the state. They even rolled out the law school text book defense of the law of perpetuity with the King Charles clause. While that was headline grabbing and gave some people a chuckle it was actually not all that innovative. It’s kinda ironic that the new board is 80% lawyers and nobody saw this coming. I guess in their defense they were appointed in a shotgun manner with a special session with no time to prepare.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
It wasn’t shady. It was actually utilizing the most mundane and boring aspects of contract law and statutes in the state. They even rolled out the law school text book defense of the law of perpetuity with the King Charles clause. While that was headline grabbing and gave some people a chuckle it was actually not all that innovative. It’s kinda ironic that the new board is 80% lawyers and nobody saw this coming. I guess in their defense they were appointed in a shotgun manner with a special session with no time to prepare.
Exactly. Just because the outcome is considered to be significant doesn't mean the means to that outcome were. DeSantis allowed the district to run completely unchecked for more than two weeks and somehow that's Disney's fault.
 

donaldtoo

Well-Known Member
Good reporting should include different viewpoints and reasoning.

No. I completely disagree. Actually, good reporting shouldn’t involve anything about viewpoints or opinion. It should only include the facts, and all the facts. No flat-out lying about the facts or lying by omitting facts to slide the story to your particular bent.
Viewpoints and editorials have their place, but, no place in actually reporting the full and total facts of the news of the day.
Again, I could not disagree with you more.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
No. I completely disagree. Actually, good reporting shouldn’t involve anything about viewpoints or opinion. It should only include the facts, and all the facts. No flat-out lying about the facts or lying by omitting facts to slide the story to your particular bent.
Viewpoints and editorials have their place, but, no place in actually reporting the full and total facts of the news of the day.
Again, I could not disagree with you more.
When reporters report on facts to expose an elected official then sadly the viewing audience at times forms an opinion that the journalists in general are out to get a certain Individual. It adds fuel to the fire when someone lights a match and calls out the media as " enemy of the people" and some fall for and drink the Kool-Aid.
 

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
Taking this in a different direction - one of the weird takeaways from the first CFTOD meetings was the member's obsession over policing contracts, and making sure they can seize that power from Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista.

Why? I thought maybe at the time it was them trying to look pro first responder and giving a rich contract to the FHP or similar. Maybe creating their own police force they make a show of paying richly.

But part of me wonders if maybe they really did want their own goon squad to send in and shut down conferences and events on the property that they've revoked permits from. Like the Hyatt Regency situation in Miami. It's scary stuff.
 

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