News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[mmascari]

You can google actions taken against RCID over the years if you still need more information.

You're the one that said there are issues. But, you've been unable to site any sources or describe what any of those issues are. Perhaps you and google are not on speaking terms?

Site something, or take your ball and go home. So far, you've only shown 1 example, from many years ago, that wasn't even an example.

You may want to dismiss decades of complaints and local officials claiming Disney didn't pay their fair share as just sour grapes, but at the end of the day, those sour grapes are exactly what brought us here: a position that Disney cannot defend. A government setup that had few fans outside of this board. That's why it wasn't worth keeping.

What setup didn't have fans? What specific item is at issue? An actual issue, not a false one.

Do people have an issue with only the tax payers within the RCID boundary paying for the sewer system within the RCID boundary? I mean, most of it is within the Orange county boundary too. Maybe Orange county should pay for it. Spread the cost across everyone paying taxes within Orange county instead of just within RCID from the extra additional RCID tax? Does that issue upset someone? Either way, Disney would still be the largest entity paying the taxes to fund it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I've seen several articles floating around the inter webs lately (including one on the front page of reddit) floating the false notion about how this move now also gives DeSantis and his board authority over the content that The Walt Disney Company produces going forward.

This is a mistaken assumption rooted in one small part of DeSantis's speech - he and his board of cronies have zero control or input on anything that Disney's entertainment division does. To the best of my knowledge, Disney doesn't even shoot anything in Florida - their closest production facility is outside Atlanta. In his supporters' eyes, they seem to think that DeSantis all but appointed himself CEO of the company.

It comes from more than just a small part of one speech.

CFLTOD can directly interfere with Disney’s operations in Florida. That’s how they can exert control. If a movie runs afoul of Florida leadership, the new district can apply pressure on Walt Disney World, and they’ve stated they intend to do just that.

 

[flynnibus]

I've seen several articles floating around the inter webs lately (including one on the front page of reddit) floating the false notion about how this move now also gives DeSantis and his board authority over the content that The Walt Disney Company produces going forward.

You are technically correct but missing what they are saying. While they don’t directly control the company, by being a gating entity the resort must go through, thry have a means to influence the company’s actions.

Don’t do what we like… we make you miserable over here… do something for me? Maybe i make this problem go away.

It’s the blueprint for corruption and misuse of power. Something they actually are boasting about.

 

[mmascari]

I've seen several articles floating around the inter webs lately (including one on the front page of reddit) floating the false notion about how this move now also gives DeSantis and his board authority over the content that The Walt Disney Company produces going forward.

This is a mistaken assumption rooted in one small part of DeSantis's speech - he and his board of cronies have zero control or input on anything that Disney's entertainment division does. To the best of my knowledge, Disney doesn't even shoot anything in Florida - their closest production facility is outside Atlanta. In his supporters' eyes, they seem to think that DeSantis all but appointed himself CEO of the company.

You're thinking about it wrong. Stop using a good faith and direct oversite frame of reference. Think like a mobster that is shaking someone down. That's the frame of reference that shows how they have said it will function.

I showed examples 150 posts ago.

Florida Legislators Want To Remove The Reedy Creek Improvement District

Which in the context of "Disney can do it, so we should be fair to universal" probably makes the most sense, but it's another sign of public government ceding power over to corporate interests. Corporate interests of what? How their land is used? Yes, but specifically we have people in...

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[lazyboy97o]

It’s funny how we’ve had some claim that this is more in line with the will of the people when a common piece of advice in Florida is to ride out a Hurricane at Walt Disney World. During a severe storm the popular thought is that Disney’s “corrupt” government built amongst the safest places in the state.

 

[mmascari]

In The End, Disney’s Florida Dream Succumbed To Its Democracy Problem

That entire article is designed to be misleading.

When I visited, voting control of the district was vested in about 50 full-time residents, almost all employees who had been deeded small plots, allowing them to participate in a faux democracy that was entirely controlled by the company.

Umm, yeah, because that's everyone who lives within the RCID boundaries and is subject to any RCID governance. Would the author prefer if people in Atlanta got to vote in Orlando elections? Others not subject to the governance voting would be the same.

As Disney developed its land with theme parks and resorts, the Democracy Problem was never fully resolved. Permanent residents were permitted in pockets like the Golden Oak development and the planned community of Celebration, with careful concessions to democratic involvement.

This clearly implies, incorrectly and falsely, that Golden Oak and Celebration are subjected to governance by RCID. Implying that they get some type of sub standard representation within RCID. It's completely made up though. Residents of Golden Oak and Celebration get zero say or representation in RCID, because they are not within the RCID boundary and not subjected to any RCID governance. Just like people who live in Miami don't get representation in RCID either.

The entire article is arguing against a fiction.

 

[flynnibus]

The entire article is arguing against a fiction.

yup - poor piece. Arguing a failure for something they never tried to be… suggesting a conflict that didn’t actually exist… and didn’t even get the fundamental points right.

The need to create content really usurps any need for accuracy these days

 

[Tom P.]

It’s clear things are only ramping up from his perspective.

Where have all the usual opponents of “cancel culture” gone?

I can't speak for others. But for me, I hate it that "my side" (conservatives) went all-in on this idea that cancel culture is bad across the board. I don't agree with that. Some things deserve to be cancelled. Sometimes by the marketplace, sometimes by government. The right and the left both agree with that and show it by their actions. We just disagree about *what* needs to be cancelled.

 

[UCF]

Many… MANY counties, cities, and other municipalities across Florida spray for mosquitoes using collected tax revenue. While you may elect to spray yourself, if you live in Florida, I can almost assure you that you’re also benefiting from tax exempt mosquito control. I’m also willing to bet that you’re not controlling mosquitos on a 30,000 acre property.

Your bet would be wrong. I live in the center of a county in Florida that does not regularly spray for mosquitos. I also have a good source that Universal pays for their own mosquito control, paying taxes on it. Universal also pays taxes on other things like parking garages, whereas Disney is tax exempt on their parking garages. How is that fair?

 

[Tom P.]

Let me just throw a question out there, and please excuse me if it's been discussed somewhere in the previous 466 pages...

If DeSantis had not framed this as retaliating against Disney, but had simply come out and said that he didn't think the current structure of RCID was beneficial to the state of Florida and was ill-advised, and that he and the legislature were going to change it, and then they implemented the legislation that he just signed, would you support it? Everyone opposed seems to be focusing on the motivation behind the changes. But what do you think of the changes themselves absent that specific motivation?

 

[Chi84]

I can't speak for others. But for me, I hate it that "my side" (conservatives) went all-in on this idea that cancel culture is bad across the board. I don't agree with that. Some things deserve to be cancelled. Sometimes by the marketplace, sometimes by government. The right and the left both agree with that and show it by their actions. We just disagree about *what* needs to be cancelled.

The marketplace is relatively free as to what it decides to cancel. The government is bound by the law, which prohibits retaliation against its citizens for speaking out against laws and policies they don't agree with.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Let me just throw a question out there, and please excuse me if it's been discussed somewhere in the previous 466 pages...

If DeSantis had not framed this as retaliating against Disney, but had simply come out and said that he didn't think the current structure of RCID was beneficial to the state of Florida and was ill-advised, and that he and the legislature were going to change it, and then they implemented the legislation that he just signed, would you support it? Everyone opposed seems to be focusing on the motivation behind the changes. But what do you think of the changes themselves absent that specific motivation?

If he had never talked about managing Disney content, or stated that he was punishing a "woke" company, then it might not have been so contentious. He has now publicly stated that he is going to use his control over the new board to influence what Disney puts out in content of shows, movies, and attractions.

 

[Chi84]

Let me just throw a question out there, and please excuse me if it's been discussed somewhere in the previous 466 pages...

If DeSantis had not framed this as retaliating against Disney, but had simply come out and said that he didn't think the current structure of RCID was beneficial to the state of Florida and was ill-advised, and that he and the legislature were going to change it, and then they implemented the legislation that he just signed, would you support it? Everyone opposed seems to be focusing on the motivation behind the changes. But what do you think of the changes themselves absent that specific motivation?

That would probably depend on the reasons he gave for thinking the current structure is bad and how the legislation he proposed would be beneficial to the state of Florida - that would include a look at the process for appointing the board members and assessing their qualifications.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

It’s funny how we’ve had some claim that this is more in line with the will of the people when a common piece of advice in Florida is to ride out a Hurricane at Walt Disney World. During a severe storm the popular thought is that Disney’s “corrupt” government built amongst the safest places in the state.

Everyone knows that strong winds are the only thing keeping those death traps from collapsing right on the heads of guests! Visit during a hurricane, risk your life even looking at the exterior of a resort building in February!

 

[drnilescrane]

Let me just throw a question out there, and please excuse me if it's been discussed somewhere in the previous 466 pages...

If DeSantis had not framed this as retaliating against Disney, but had simply come out and said that he didn't think the current structure of RCID was beneficial to the state of Florida and was ill-advised, and that he and the legislature were going to change it, and then they implemented the legislation that he just signed, would you support it? Everyone opposed seems to be focusing on the motivation behind the changes. But what do you think of the changes themselves absent that specific motivation?

That was the point I was trying to make earlier - it’s clear this has been on the legislatures radar for a while. Even if the changes to the board structure hadn’t been made, there’s definitely a broad coalition in Tallahassee that felt Disney had too much of a good thing for too long and the right opportunity presented itself.

Yeah it might have worked well for all parties - which is why it never changed - but it just felt wrong.

That’s probably why Disney isn’t fighting it. Because they lose either way.

The average citizen has a poor understanding of the issues at play and DeSantis has 100% control of the narrative. WaPo let him post that OpEd!

In a post covid world Disney is absolutely seen as greedy. Fighting to maintain control of RCID - even if it’s a 1A issue - is just going to play in the press as more greed. Same reason they just took their lumps with Newsom and waited it out.

 

[sullyinMT]

It comes from more than just a small part of one speech.

CFLTOD can directly interfere with Disney’s operations in Florida. That’s how they can exert control. If a movie runs afoul of Florida leadership, the new district can apply pressure on Walt Disney World, and they’ve stated they intend to do just that.

Not to mention liquor license meddling, which has already been done against at least one other “enemy” entity. How much control does the governor have over port operations? If none now, why not reestablish a board and meddle in DCL docking agreements, too?

The reason WDW became what it did is because of RCID. It has mutually benefitted FL and TWDC. I’m sure there are flaws in the weeds, but the fact that Uni is seeking something even kind of similar for infrastructure improvements and management as they expand beyond their current micro bubble is telling.

Without RCID, WDW would be a better run Cedar Fair or Six Flags, but not the economic engine it is for all involved.

Cancel Lake Nona, focus on DL, and get the ships out of FL. Help improve Savannah’s or Charleston’s port, pour money into Mobile, use NOLA and Galveston. Disney needs a successful WDW, but they should explore decoupling from FL as much as possible.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That entire article is designed to be misleading.


Umm, yeah, because that's everyone who lives within the RCID boundaries and is subject to any RCID governance. Would the author prefer if people in Atlanta got to vote in Orlando elections? Others not subject to the governance voting would be the same.


This clearly implies, incorrectly and falsely, that Golden Oak and Celebration are subjected to governance by RCID. Implying that they get some type of sub standard representation within RCID. It's completely made up though. Residents of Golden Oak and Celebration get zero say or representation in RCID, because they are not within the RCID boundary and not subjected to any RCID governance. Just like people who live in Miami don't get representation in RCID either.

The entire article is arguing against a fiction.

And of course if the issues was the structure of such districts, the hundreds of others surely would have been addressed?

 

[peter11435]

Your bet would be wrong. I live in the center of a county in Florida that does not regularly spray for mosquitos. I also have a good source that Universal pays for their own mosquito control, paying taxes on it. Universal also pays taxes on other things like parking garages, whereas Disney is tax exempt on their parking garages. How is that fair?

Nearly every county in Florida has a mosquito control program or is part of a larger mosquito control district. If yours is not you should be reaching out to your local representatives and fighting for them to do more, or voting for leaders that will address the issue. Thankfully unlike Disney, you actually have the ability to vote on leaders who will care about the issues that impact you.

I never said Universal doesn’t pay for additional mosquito control. But they absolutely do benefit from Orange County spraying. You should also be aware that in addition to RCID’s efforts, WDW pest management also performs additional mosquito mitigation efforts at Disney‘a dime. Those expenses since not carried out by the district are subject to all taxes.

Yes, the Disney springs garages were built; owned, and operated by RCID so they did not pay tax on their construction. Of course they were also entirely funded via bonds paid back by Disneys own tax payments to the district. If you cared you’d know that Universal has also benefited from similar arrangements. The city funded a pedestrian bridge connecting a Universal hotel to the parks and city walk. How is that fair to the people of the city of Orlando.

 

[drnilescrane]

And of course if the issues was the structure of such districts, the hundreds of others surely would have been addressed?

An argument could be made that the Uniform Community Development District Act of 1980 was their way of addressing the issue.

And in an ideal world Reedy Creek would become a CDD, like Celebration or Bonnet Creek or the Villages, and the whole issue is moot.

 

[flynnibus]

then they implemented the legislation that he just signed, would you support it?

No - because it is still flawed and disingenuous.

If they wanted to clarify the relationship with out of district projects, retired old language, modernized it, or even added independent directors that would have been acceptable as prudent refreshing or catch up to the current realities.

But that wasn’t the scope nor goal.