News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[MandaM]

I fully acknowledge that DeSantis was upset with Disney for what he felt were public lies at worst, and at best public misrepresentations, from Disney's senior executives of his Parental Rights In Education bill that makes it illegal in Florida to teach about sexuality or gender-issues in Kindergarten through 3rd Grade.

Do I think that's playing political hardball? Yes, I do.

Do I think it's unusual for a powerful and popular governor who just won in a landslide to play political hardball? No, I don't.

Look to Governor Newsom's actions the past few years for the Democrat version of this same tactic.

If Disney had an extraordinarily cushy deal with Florida's state government that they were enjoying, they probably shouldn't have taken on Florida's state government in a social media campaign to satisfy a hundred cubicle workers in SoCal 3,000 miles away who don't even live or vote in Florida. While their 70,000 CM's who work and vote in Florida didn't protest or walk out. I blame Chapek for that mess.

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“Playing hardball” is a cute euphemism for violating the 1st amendment and killing freedom of speech in Florida. Let’s call a spade a spade. It’s unconstitutional to punish someone because they hurt the governor’s feelings. Being popular in a state doesn’t mean you get to ignore the constitution.

I’d like to hear of one instance where Newsom explicitly punished a company merely for disagreeing with him. There is no Democratic version of this tactic. Only DeSantis has been authoritarian enough to do it.

 

[LSLS]

Well, sort of. California is a massive state with many different climates and geographic areas. There's an entirely different climate and geography in places like Eureka or San Luis Obispo than there is in coastal basins like LA or Riverside. But the dictates of the CARB affect and rule them all, regardless of local condition. Was it smoggy in LA in 1972? Yes, so... Gas stoves are outlawed in Eureka in 2024!



If it is illegal, I expect Disney's vast legal team to file a lawsuit quickly. If it's not illegal and it stands, I would expect all the other theme parks in Florida like Universal and Sea World and Legoland to pressure the state to level the playing field. Assuming the playing field with the CFTOD benefits Disney to their detriment, of course.

Either way, these are big companies with many lawyers on the payroll. If there's a half-decent case for any of them, they'll file it.

I admit I'm not from CA and haven't done more than a cursory search on this. BUT, you aren't telling the entire picture. 12 are appointed by the governor. 5 are chosen from local air pollution districts to represent all the different areas. The members of those districts are elected by the people of those districts. 4 are people who must be experts in a specific field. 2 are members of the public (so people who this directly affects), and a chair. SO, if my math is correct, people in the state (or the area which is affected by their rules) have direct representation of 7 of the 14 total positions (7 of the 12 the governor puts in place). This new district has 0 representation on the board.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I admit I'm not from CA and haven't done more than a cursory search on this. BUT, you aren't telling the entire picture. 12 are appointed by the governor. 5 are chosen from local air pollution districts to represent all the different areas. The members of those districts are elected by the people of those districts. 4 are people who must be experts in a specific field. 2 are members of the public (so people who this directly affects), and a chair. SO, if my math is correct, people in the state (or the area which is affected by their rules) have direct representation of 7 of the 14 total positions (7 of the 12 the governor puts in place). This new district has 0 representation on the board.

The details don’t matter because it’s not a genuine and honest assessment. It’s a distraction just like claiming that mosquito control is the big power of the CFLTOD.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I'm not avoiding addressing this. It's just that this is how EVERY state in the union works with state-appointed boards.

Have you seen who makes up the California Air Resources Board (CARB) that are almost all appointed by the Governor??? My God, those people are ideologues to the extreme! And only one of a thousand examples in every state from coast to coast.

That's not how it works in every state. In fact, RCID went from being 1 of many examples in FL to being the ONLY district like it in Florida due to the ability of a state-appointed board to levy taxes. The example you cited in California literally used zero tax dollars to operate and has no authority to levy taxes, so it is nothing like this situation.

 

[UCF]

So, if someone wants to add anything to those three main concepts above, let us know. But as it stands, none of those changes above will have any immediate impact on WDW's operation for paying customers or employees. And I don't see how they could have any impact longer term either, unless the CFTOD stops spraying for mosquitos as payback for a theme park event they don't like.

And actually, I looked into this, and if CFTOD stops spraying for mosquitos for whatever reason, Disney actually has the right to buy their own equipment and sprayers, and hire employees, and spray for the mosquitos themselves on their property! Infact, this is literally what their competition like SeaWorld and Universal does. I understand it does not have the benefit of being tax exempt, but its not tax exempt when I personally spray for mosquitos either, so it sure feels more fair!

 

[Chip Chipperson]

And actually, I looked into this, and if CFTOD stops spraying for mosquitos for whatever reason, Disney actually has the right to buy their own equipment and sprayers, and hire employees, and spray for the mosquitos themselves on their property! Infact, this is literally what their competition like SeaWorld and Universal does. I understand it does not have the benefit of being tax exempt, but its not tax exempt when I personally spray for mosquitos either, so it sure feels more fair!

Cool, so if RCID/CFTOD stops doing its job out of spite, the other landowners (and there ARE other landowners that aren't Disney or its former employees) should also have to pay to treat their properties as well even thought they all have already paid for the service through their property taxes? Just because RCID does it doesn't mean it's "free." The money comes from somewhere and that somewhere is tax revenues. But it's "more fair" if landowners who already pay more taxes than the other landowners in the County have to now pay even more to do something that the District is supposed to do?

 

[lazyboy97o]

And actually, I looked into this, and if CFTOD stops spraying for mosquitos for whatever reason, Disney actually has the right to buy their own equipment and sprayers, and hire employees, and spray for the mosquitos themselves on their property! Infact, this is literally what their competition like SeaWorld and Universal does. I understand it does not have the benefit of being tax exempt, but its not tax exempt when I personally spray for mosquitos either, so it sure feels more fair!

Mosquito Safety

 

[mmascari]

And this is pretty much where I am at. Disney should have worked with the government and counties to dissolve RCID (or hand over control) decades ago when it first started causing problems.

Can you point to specific problems RCID causes?

So far, the only one you've mentioned is on local government in competition with another local government for bonds. A disagreement that was all sour grapes and not a real issue. Everything else pointed out hasn't actually been true but sloppy reporting or false statements about how RCID works.

After you give an example of a specific problem RCID causes, can you show how the change being done changes that problem?

 

[peter11435]

And actually, I looked into this, and if CFTOD stops spraying for mosquitos for whatever reason, Disney actually has the right to buy their own equipment and sprayers, and hire employees, and spray for the mosquitos themselves on their property! Infact, this is literally what their competition like SeaWorld and Universal does. I understand it does not have the benefit of being tax exempt, but its not tax exempt when I personally spray for mosquitos either, so it sure feels more fair!

Many… MANY counties, cities, and other municipalities across Florida spray for mosquitoes using collected tax revenue. While you may elect to spray yourself, if you live in Florida, I can almost assure you that you’re also benefiting from tax exempt mosquito control. I’m also willing to bet that you’re not controlling mosquitos on a 30,000 acre property.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Many… MANY counties, cities, and other municipalities across Florida spray for mosquitoes using collected tax revenue.

And Orange County’s mosquito control is partially paid for by Disney! So Disney helps pay for others’ mosquito control and then does pay for their own.

It’s amazing how people just keep making things up in the hope that no one will actually know if it is true.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Many… MANY counties, cities, and other municipalities across Florida spray for mosquitoes using collected tax revenue. While you may elect to spray yourself, if you live in Florida, I can almost assure you that you’re also benefiting from tax exempt mosquito control. I’m also willing to bet that you’re not controlling mosquitos on a 30,000 acre property.

Spraying for mosquitoes, yes please!

 

[el_super]

Can you point to specific problems RCID causes?

You can google actions taken against RCID over the years if you still need more information.

You may want to dismiss decades of complaints and local officials claiming Disney didn't pay their fair share as just sour grapes, but at the end of the day, those sour grapes are exactly what brought us here: a position that Disney cannot defend. A government setup that had few fans outside of this board. That's why it wasn't worth keeping.

 

[mkt]

You can google actions taken against RCID over the years if you still need more information.

You may want to dismiss decades of complaints and local officials claiming Disney didn't pay their fair share as just sour grapes, but at the end of the day, those sour grapes are exactly what brought us here: a position that Disney cannot defend. A government setup that had few fans outside of this board. That's why it wasn't worth keeping.

I don't even think there were that many fans of it on the board.

My issue wasn't getting rid of it. It's why it was done, HOW it was done, and the unelected board we have now.

Replace the board with one put in place by the counties, or at least partially by the counties (2 state, 2 Orange, 1 Osceola) and I wouldn't be opposed to this arrangement (while still not happy at the reason why this happened in the first place).

 

[lazyboy97o]

You can google actions taken against RCID over the years if you still need more information.

You may want to dismiss decades of complaints and local officials claiming Disney didn't pay their fair share as just sour grapes, but at the end of the day, those sour grapes are exactly what brought us here: a position that Disney cannot defend. A government setup that had few fans outside of this board. That's why it wasn't worth keeping.

You made the claim, you need to back it up.

This had absolutely nothing to do with long simmering concerns about the district. Many involved claim they didn’t even know about the district and continue to lie about how it operated.

 

[peter11435]

You can google actions taken against RCID over the years if you still need more information.

You may want to dismiss decades of complaints and local officials claiming Disney didn't pay their fair share as just sour grapes, but at the end of the day, those sour grapes are exactly what brought us here: a position that Disney cannot defend. A government setup that had few fans outside of this board. That's why it wasn't worth keeping.

But those sour grapes are not what brought us here and have nothing to do with the current situation. Which is why the governor is on record stating that prior to Disneys statement he didn’t even know about the RCID

 

[el_super]

My issue wasn't getting rid of it. It's why it was done, HOW it was done, and the unelected board we have now.

I will fully admit that the particulars of why and how are pretty troubling. I still have some faith that Disney will find a way to maneuver through this. You can lose a battle and still win the war.

 

[el_super]

You made the claim, you need to back it up.

I don't have to back up anything at this point. What is done, is done.

You want to make a case for why Disney needs to retain RCID, you can write a lengthy letter to The Walt Disney Company and/or publish it in the WSJ.

 

[el_super]

In The End, Disney’s Florida Dream Succumbed To Its Democracy Problem​

But in truth, the revocation was a long overdue rupture in a corporate/political structure that concealed a hidden flaw. Reedy Creek was a Utopian construct, endowed with powers—including the right to generate nuclear power, if needed—that were granted 55 years ago in the expectation that successors to company founder Walt Disney would fulfill his plan to build a techno-based paradise, a truly functional Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. Introducing EPCOT, Florida’s then-governor, Haydon Burns, called it “the greatest single announcement in the history of the state.”​

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Of course, things didn’t quite work as planned.​

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By the time I got a close look at the Reedy Creek apparatus, as a reporter for the Wall Street Journal in 1985, the Disney company, by now under chief executive Michael Eisner, had already discovered a structural fault that would never be fixed. Eisner and his fellow executives called it the “one man, one vote” problem.​

In The End, Disney’s Florida Dream Succumbed To Its Democracy Problem

It was bound to happen, sooner or later. On Monday, the Walt Disney Co.’s corporate privilege in Florida finally succumbed to its Democracy Problem. Specifically, Florida governor Ron DeSantis sign…

deadline.com

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Notice what was missing from DeSantis’s OpEd? Telling you why his new solution is better for anyone, including Floridians. Instead his trophy is offering up a political block that will conquer private businesses - nothing about how his solution improves central Florida

And he named it the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District even though it only oversees 1 part of Central Florida Tourism. Given the name, Universal, Sea World, Lego Land, Gatorland, and any other tourist attraction in the region should be under the thumb of this new regime, yet only Disney was targeted. It's not hard to see what he's doing.

 

[James122]

I've seen several articles floating around the inter webs lately (including one on the front page of reddit) floating the false notion about how this move now also gives DeSantis and his board authority over the content that The Walt Disney Company produces going forward.

This is a mistaken assumption rooted in one small part of DeSantis's speech - he and his board of cronies have zero control or input on anything that Disney's entertainment division does. To the best of my knowledge, Disney doesn't even shoot anything in Florida - their closest production facility is outside Atlanta. In his supporters' eyes, they seem to think that DeSantis all but appointed himself CEO of the company.