News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lazyboy97o]

That preferred pronouns would be banned tells you everything you need to know. This has nothing to do with protecting children, and everything to do with marginalising and demonising queer children.

Disgusting.

I don’t think it’s coincidence that these proposals were announced now. Disney was the big entity that had loudly and independently said they would fight. They’ve now been put in their place and now more is coming. It’s a taunt. “You said you’d fight us, but we owned you and now we’re doing more!”

 

[mkt]

I actually agree with you.

I'm asking is government changing a government entity legally retribution?

There must be some legality to it or they wouldn't do it.

The way the original law was written, no. Not really. It was written to affect all districts created before a certain date.

However, DeSantis has said ON THE RECORD, that this was retribution.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t think it’s coincidence that these proposals were announced now. Disney was the big entity that had loudly and independently said they would fight. They’ve now been put in their place and now more is coming. It’s a taunt. “You said you’d fight us, but we owned you and now we’re doing more!”

Which makes it even more unfortunate that Disney didn’t have the courage to fight this.

 

[TP2000]

Translation - I said I was going to read the bill, but instead I'll just use this thinned out article as conclusions instead.

No, you are incorrect. I read the bill, with the exception of Pages 5 through 82 that just included endless geo-coordinates and street addresses. The rest was quite boring, but I read it.

Did I enjoy it like a Irene Kampen novel? Nope. But I read it. Have you?

Incorrect. Those are not the only changes.

What are the changes that have not been reported on in the media, or didn't jump out at me via the bill's language?

If it's changes about mosquito-control guidelines or some such details of Central Florida property ownership, you'll have to pardon me for not being adept at those current standards.

Otherwise, it was a lot of words about bond sales and drainage canals. That excerpt from Page 104 regarding "monorails" and "railroads" is one of the few interesting parts that jumped out at me as being even remotely connected to theme park operations.

 

[TP2000]

Text from the original charter:

Transportation.-To own, acquire, construct, reconstruct, equip, operate, maintain, extend and improve common, private or contract carriers, buses, vehicles, railroads, monorails, airplanes, helicopters, boats and other transportation facilities, whether now or hereafter invented or developed including without limitation novel and experimental facilities such as moving platforms and sidewalks, as may be determined from time to time by the Board of Supervisors to be useful or appropriate to meet the transportation requirements of the District and activities conducted within the District; and to extend such transportation facilities to areas outside the District in order to provide transportation to and from the District.

Ah-ha! So there's a change!

The new 2023 bill is the same language in that passage, except for the deletion of "experimental facilities" and "moving sidewalks" and until that last bolded sentence above.

The original 1966 bill allowed them to extend the monorail or other transport systems (The Wedway PeopleMover planned to reach the housing areas outside the urban core of EPCOT, etc.,) to areas beyond Disney property. Like maybe a monorail line to MCO or something?

Interesting. So there's a change that I haven't seen reported on in the media, or it hasn't been in the few articles I've read so far.

In 1966 they could extend the WDW Monorail off property. In 2023 they no longer can, at least not without getting buy in from the governments and property owners off property. But since Disney didn't even extend the monorail to DAK or DHS or Disney Springs, TDO probably isn't losing sleep over that change.

 

[TP2000]

Now that we cleared up that monorail and railroad issue from Page 104, for those of you here who may not have had time to read the full bill yet, it's summed up quite nicely on Page 189...

Section 6. Notwithstanding the repeal of the decree and chancery No. 66-1061, the stipulation dated September 29, 1966, by and between the Reedy Creek Drainage District and Orange County, filed and entered in the proceeding then pending in the Circuit Court of the Ninth Judicial Circuit in and for Orange County, Florida, being Case No. Chancery 66-1061, shall continue to be effective and binding on the Reedy Creek Improvement District, now known as the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District, and Orange County and applicable to any plan of reclamation now or hereafter adopted by the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District unless and until revised or terminated by agreement of the parties thereto.

And then, just to put a finer point on it, the very next Section says this...

Section 7. Notwithstanding s. 189.0311(2), Florida Statutes, the Reedy Creek Improvement District is not dissolved as of June 1, 2023, but continues in full force and effect under its new name.

But if you wanna finally build that monorail line from the TTC to MCO, you have to get different permits now!

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I actually agree with you.

I'm asking is government changing a government entity legally retribution?

There must be some legality to it or they wouldn't do it.

Do you think anything a government does is legal based on the premise that "if it was illegal then they wouldn't do it?" If that was the case then no laws would ever be overturned by the courts and the idea of checks and balances would be moot.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Which makes it even more unfortunate that Disney didn’t have the courage to fight this.

If only.

Don't like our media content? Fine, no more movie releases in Florida.

Don't like our company? Fine, no more annual passes or locals discounts. We'll focus on the rest of our global audience.

 

[flynnibus]

What are the changes that have not been reported on in the media, or didn't jump out at me via the bill's language?

You’ll have to forgive us for not wanting to rewrite what was already written… and linked for you to read. Because it’s already here for you

 

[TP2000]

You’ll have to forgive us for not wanting to rewrite what was already written… and linked for you to read. Because it’s already here for you

In a 466 page thread that has had more deletions than additions the last 48 hours? You'll have to forgive me for not investing the energy to track this thread that well.

And I'm retired and just spent a chunk of this afternoon reading dozens of pages of new legislation for a state I don't live in!

I get it, many folks here in this thread seem to be really grumpy about this topic. Setting that part aside though, and trying to get everybody to be less grumpy here, it seems this change comes down to these key elements;

1. RCID renamed to Central Florida Tourism Oversight District (CFTOD).
2. CFTOD Board of Governors to be appointed to 4 year terms by Florida Governor and Senate instead of Disney, and may no longer be employees of Disney and/or receive perks and free stuff from Disney while they serve on the board that oversees... wait for it... Disney.
3. Updating the 1966 legislation to remove language and phrasing that refers to things that obviously are never going to happen, and never would be happening as of about 1985; stuff like monorail system extensions off Disney property, thousands of people living permanently on Disney property, governance of "moving walkways" and "closed-circuit television" and other 1966 concepts that no longer are relevant.

So, if someone wants to add anything to those three main concepts above, let us know. But as it stands, none of those changes above will have any immediate impact on WDW's operation for paying customers or employees. And I don't see how they could have any impact longer term either, unless the CFTOD stops spraying for mosquitos as payback for a theme park event they don't like.

 

[flynnibus]

In a 466 page thread that has had more deletions than additions the last 48 hours? You'll have to forgive me for not investing the energy to track this thread that well.

You were given the link to where the pages of discussion about what is new and other reference material was.

I get it, many folks here in this thread seem to be really grumpy about this topic.

No we are just tired of people dropping in late, uninformed and wanting to tell everyone how it is… when they are wrong… and it’s topics that have been covered countless times. Sorry we don’t celebrate yet another spewer of falsehoods dropping in late and saying ‘whats the big deal?’

So, if someone wants to add anything to those three main concepts above, let us know.

We already did. You missed out.

 

[LittleBuford]

I'm not avoiding addressing this. It's just that this is how EVERY state in the union works with state-appointed boards.

Have you seen who makes up the California Air Resources Board (CARB) that are almost all appointed by the Governor??? My God, those people are ideologues to the extreme! And only one of a thousand examples in every state from coast to coast.

If the taxpayers and voters of Florida don't like who their Governor and Senators have appointed to the boards that control their local communities and local businesses and key industries, then they get to vote in different Governors and Senators who align better with their wants and needs and values.

But for now, until 2025 at the earliest, these 5 new CFTOD board members are in charge of mosquito-abatement on WDW property.

This exact same thing will play out with the CFTOD over the next 50 years, or however long it exists. According to the dozens of pages of legislation that I read today, the first board members terms end in 2025, as two of the board members appointed this week are only serving two year terms.



The detour into transportation (Get it?!) was because that was one of the very few things that showed up in the pages of text I read today that dealt with anything remotely connected to theme parks or hotels or even just parking lots. The rest of it involved mosquito-abatement and drainage canals and road maintenance and bond repayment schedules.

Finally, something glamorous like a monorail on Page 104!



Ah, yes. My faux attempts at being human and simply me. I get it, you think I'm really Al Lutz and that I was hand-chosen by George Kalogridis in 2001 to take over the Internet fan community and depose Michael Eisner and elevate Bob Iger to his rightful place on the throne while being paid off the books by Zenia Mucha. All while throwing out bits of Disneyland trivia to charm the ladies (and a few men).

It could be true. But I doubt it.

Can I cut through the repartee and ask you to comment on the one issue you seem intent on ignoring: government retaliation? Does it not concern you that DeSantis, by his own telling, saw fit to punish Disney for exercising its right to free speech?

 

[flynnibus]

Like I mentioned to @MisterPenguin, this is not unlike a thousand other similar boards appointed by Governors and state legislatures from coast to coast

Wrong again.

Try boards that are have taxing and bond authority… and were setup without resident approval… and in a state with home rule in the state constitution.

We’ll wait.

This is nothing like a regulatory body like CARB

 

[Stripes]

Like I mentioned to @MisterPenguin, this is not unlike a thousand other similar boards appointed by Governors and state legislatures from coast to coast. I used to live in California for the past 30 years, and that state is ruled with an iron fist by the California Air Resources Board, which has 16 members and 12 are appointed at the whim of the Governor. CARB was created in the 1970's with the best of intentions to reduce smog. Then the smog went away by the late 1990's, but CARB still exists and now is meddling in stuff like gas stoves and backyard bonfires for s'mores.

I used to live in California as well. The decisions of the California Air Resources Board affect the entire state, therefore it is appropriate that the members be appointed by the statewide governor, and confirmed by the California Senate. The representatives of California‘s local Air Quality Management Districts on the other hand are made up of locally elected representatives, also appropriate.

Appointed by the Governor. Whom the good people of California elected to choose such board members. The same will hold true for Florida. Ron DeSantis, as grumpy as he makes some people here, will only be Governor until 2026. Then he terms out and moves on.

Democracy in action! The concept of state-appointed governance boards that set rules and enforce legislation didn't just get invented by Mr. DeSantis, it's in effect in every state in the union regardless of who their Governor is or what cable news channel they watch.

The Florida constitution requires a referendum of landowners in a proposed district to approve the creation of a special district with the taxing powers that RCID has. The purpose of said referendum is to satisfy the idea that there can be no taxation without representation. Altering the governance structure of the district to disenfranchise the landowners represents a fundamental change to the district that, following the spirit of the law, would require a referendum of landowners.

Given the change in governance structure, there isn’t another district like CFTOD in the entire state. It is unique. And I would argue, uniquely illegal.

 

[Figgy1]

@TP2000 agree to disagree my dear because this targets one specific business. It may or may not have any long term effects and I certainly hope not but I have a very large pit in my stomach about how this was done and question the legality of how it was done
btw did you see Not Another Cooking Show's Egg Yolk Raviolo video?

 

[TP2000]

Can I cut through the repartee and ask you to comment on the one issue you seem intent on ignoring: government retaliation? Does it not concern you that DeSantis, by his own telling, saw fit to punish Disney for exercising its right to free speech?

No, it doesn't bother me in the least. Because I used to live in California. Quite frankly, I'm surprised it took Tallahassee this long to do it.

The state of California has a Governor and one-party state legislature that currently keeps a list of 23 (?!?) states that California tax money may not be used for to travel to or do business with because of socio-political differences. Those 23 forbidden states for California tax money and travel include states like Georgia, Florida, Texas, and many other far less fashionable or affluent or Officially Good places that are now forbidden, per Governor Newsom.

This type of political retaliation happens all the time from many state governments. Against companies, or cultural institutions, or other states in their entirety. Almost like an socio-economic Civil War. And always supported by Official Good People!

It's how the game is played increasingly in this country. I'm not happy about it, but it's reality.

But a state-appointed board is far less sinister and not unusual in the least. I don't think there's a single state that doesn't have a state-appointed board overseeing an industry or company or business region, all appointed by the politician du jour in the state capital.

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/1011253354/california-bans-state-travel-to-florida-and-4-other-states-lgbtq

 

[MandaM]

Like I mentioned to @MisterPenguin, this is not unlike a thousand other similar boards appointed by Governors and state legislatures from coast to coast. I used to live in California for the past 30 years, and that state is ruled with an iron fist by the California Air Resources Board, which has 16 members and 12 are appointed at the whim of the Governor. CARB was created in the 1970's with the best of intentions to reduce smog. Then the smog went away by the late 1990's, but CARB still exists and now is meddling in stuff like gas stoves and backyard bonfires for s'mores.

Appointed by the Governor. Whom the good people of California elected to choose such board members. The same will hold true for Florida. Ron DeSantis, as grumpy as he makes some people here, will only be Governor until 2026. Then he terms out and moves on.

Democracy in action! The concept of state-appointed governance boards that set rules and enforce legislation didn't just get invented by Mr. DeSantis, it's in effect in every state in the union regardless of who their Governor is or what cable news channel they

You ignored the part where DeSantis said he’s going to use the board to pressure Disney and reign in their actions. Does that mean you think it’s appropriate, or are you just refusing to acknowledge it?

 

[TP2000]

I used to live in California as well. The decisions of the California Air Resources Board affect the entire state, therefore it is appropriate that the members be appointed by the statewide governor, and confirmed by the California Senate. The representatives of California‘s local Air Quality Management Districts on the other hand are made up of locally elected representatives, also appropriate.

Well, sort of. California is a massive state with many different climates and geographic areas. There's an entirely different climate and geography in places like Eureka or San Luis Obispo than there is in coastal basins like LA or Riverside. But the dictates of the CARB affect and rule them all, regardless of local condition. Was it smoggy in LA in 1972? Yes, so... Gas stoves are outlawed in Eureka in 2024!

Given the change in governance structure, there isn’t another district like CFTOD in the entire state. It is unique. And I would argue, uniquely illegal.

If it is illegal, I expect Disney's vast legal team to file a lawsuit quickly. If it's not illegal and it stands, I would expect all the other theme parks in Florida like Universal and Sea World and Legoland to pressure the state to level the playing field. Assuming the playing field with the CFTOD benefits Disney to their detriment, of course.

Either way, these are big companies with many lawyers on the payroll. If there's a half-decent case for any of them, they'll file it.

 

[Stripes]

Well, sort of. California is a massive state with many different climates and geographic areas. There's an entirely different climate and geography in places like Eureka or San Luis Obispo than there is in coastal basins like LA or Riverside. But the dictates of the CARB affect and rule them all, regardless of local condition. Was it smoggy in LA in 1972? Yes, so... Gas stoves are outlawed in Eureka in 2024!

I’m well aware. As I mentioned, I used to live in California as well. About 20 years actually.

If it is illegal, I expect Disney's vast legal team to file a lawsuit quickly.

I expect Disney is waiting to see how things go with the new board and/or waiting till DeSantis runs for president before they decide whether to sue the state. Their case would be even stronger if they can show harm caused by the new board and there’d be less political controversy once DeSantis vacates his office.

It’s not obvious to me why they should be in hurry to sue.

 

[TP2000]

You ignored the part where DeSantis said he’s going to use the board to pressure Disney and reign in their actions. Does that mean you think it’s appropriate, or are you just refusing to acknowledge it?

I fully acknowledge that DeSantis was upset with Disney for what he felt were public lies at worst, and at best public misrepresentations, from Disney's senior executives of his Parental Rights In Education bill that makes it illegal in Florida to teach about sexuality or gender-issues in Kindergarten through 3rd Grade.

Do I think that's playing political hardball? Yes, I do.

Do I think it's unusual for a powerful and popular governor who just won in a landslide to play political hardball? No, I don't.

Look to Governor Newsom's actions the past few years for the Democrat version of this same tactic.

If Disney had an extraordinarily cushy deal with Florida's state government that they were enjoying, they probably shouldn't have taken on Florida's state government in a social media campaign to satisfy a hundred cubicle workers in SoCal 3,000 miles away who don't even live or vote in Florida. While their 70,000 CM's who work and vote in Florida didn't protest or walk out. I blame Chapek for that mess.