lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
No, but you could threaten Disney’s liquor license for allowing inappropriate conduct in the presence of children.
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News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District
- Thread starter castlecake2.0
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
Bingo!
Until yesterday afternoon, I had heard and/or been led to believe that this would raise taxes on local residents and shift the burden of fire services and utility maintenance onto residents in an undue fashion. All of that appears to have been misinformation, or perhaps just sloppy reporting.
What was telling is that the Firefighters Union that protects WDW was thrilled at this change. And they hosted Governor DeSantis to sign the bill at their local WDW firehouse! The firefighters and employees of RCID seem to support this.
And I have yet to be given an example of how this will change the operation of WDW for paying customers or employees alike.
I fully understand that part actually. And among many folks who are Center or Center-Left or Socialist, that governor is very inimidating and scary because he just won re-election in a historic landslide and enjoys immense popularity in his state. Looking ahead to '24, it's scary for some folks that he's so popular.
Many voters in Florida feel that Governor DeSantis should have ended Disney's special district of tax-free bonds and corporate self governance. When Chapek stepped in it and continued to lie about the Parental Rights In Education Bill on a national stage to pacify his cubicle workers 3,000 miles away who don't even vote in Florida, DeSantis said "Okay, let's look at all these perks Disney gets for the last 50 years that no other theme park gets."
And off he went to end the cushy RCID and replace it with a government body that is appointed by elected officials instead of corporate pawns chosen by people 3,000 miles from Florida.
Moral of Story: If you enjoy cushy perks from the government, don't publicly lie about the government's latest education bill.
Later today I've promised myself to read the entirety of the CFTOD bill. But I have yet to see how they would have the power or ability to do anything close to that.
Or are you saying that if DeSantis wanted to shut down a Gay Days event at DHS he would have the CFTOD shut off the electricity to the park?
Through indirect action.
People keep suggesting, like this post, that to impact something like merchandise on the shelves, the new board would have to take action against that merchandise on the shelves. That's such a sweet summer child point of view.
Think more mob boss. That's a nice store you got there, shame if there was a fire.
In this case, not an actual fire. But, any of a million things that mess up operations at WDW.
Don't like merchandise on the shelves, oops surprise inspection close the store while we check the fire codes.
Don't like the theming of a new attraction, oops that building permit is going to take a little longer, you'll get on the second Tuesday next week.
Don't like an episode of a Disney+ show, oops we're doing power maintenance they will be some rolling black outs next week.
Don't like an entire feature movie being released, oops we just cancelled the entire World Drive project, half way through construction. Just live with the temporary roads for a few years, it'll be fine, no operations or quality impact at all.
I'm sure none of those would impact revenue at all.....
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
So full disclosure on what I am reading. From the Orlando Sentinal (pre-Don't Say Gay):
At one point, Disney’s exemption from paying impact fees raised eyebrows from officials in Orange County.In the 1980s, county officials threatened to sue Disney over the constitutionality of its Reedy Creek charter.Then-commissioner Lou Treadway put it this way: “Without question, Disney is the largest taxpayer in Orange County. Without question, Disney is the largest employer in Orange County. And without question, Disney causes some of the greatest impact in Orange County.”Ultimately, the company and the local government came to an agreement in 1989 and Disney paid about $13 million for road improvements outside its property. In exchange, Orange County agreed not to challenge Reedy Creek’s charter for seven years.When the agreement ended, Disney stopped paying the fees. And Orange leaders haven’t pushed the issue since.Disney is also immune from a tax that other property owners pay to fund law enforcement.If the company was required to pay the tax, it would total about $21.1 million in fiscal year 2020, according to an analysis by the Orange County comptroller’s office. Instead, Reedy Creek will pay about $10.5 million in a contract with the Orange County Sheriff’s Office.That means Reedy Creek — and Disney by extension — nets a savings of about $10.6 million a year thanks to the tax exemption.Disney notes it pays other taxes that offset the benefits built into its charter.
Orlando hotel taxes don’t pay for roads or housing like in other cities. One reason: Disney and Universal’s political power
From the Florida Keys to Portland, Oregon, cities are increasingly turning to tourist taxes as one way to solve problems that come with being a top travel destination. In the Keys, a portion of the…www.orlandosentinel.com
So what you have there is what's called Payment in Lieu of Taxes (PILOT, for short). That's not an uncommon arrangement for large companies because the governments luring the companies to their jurisdiction realize that the overall economic impact of a large business moving in, building offices, warehouses, etc., and employing residents outweighs the reduced taxes (which are still greater than what would otherwise be collected for the property being developed). You'll find such arrangements in every state because municipalities realize the benefit of the arrangement. Someone holding office decades later may not understand that, but it doesn't negate the reason for the agreement in the first place. If Orange County's government truly bieves that the fee Disney pays the Sheriff's Office is too low, they are free to negotiate a higher payment when the agreement is up for renewal.
Edit to add: Also, the changes made by the legislature and governor do nothing to change this situation, so it's no justification for the action, nor does it support the claim that they're making Disney "pay their fair share."
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There was a different law on the books that did just that. It was only repealed yesterday. Try to keep up.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about a discount. Again:
If the company was required to pay the tax, it would total about $21.1 million in fiscal year 2020, according to an analysis by the Orange County comptroller’s office.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
And all of these things would be harder to fight, not easier as some suggest. It’s this whole issue of “they can do that, the reason doesn’t matter” argument ratcheted up and more obscured. There can be more specific issues that the district has the power to control. If you had a fire code violation you had a fire code violation, it’s a bit harder to get out of if it was sought out for illegitimate reasons.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I just explained repeatedly that I got up to speed on this yesterday. That taxation that was reported on widely in 2022 was changed in the 2023 bill, and now the local taxpayers don't owe anything new with the RCID going away. So nothing has really changed.
I've been on this message board for 20 years. I enjoy posting and chatting here.
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el_super
Well-Known Member
Sure I have. I fundamentally disagree with the idea of a for-profit corporation being put on the same legal footing as a government.
I've posted examples of how Disney, as a corporation, used that power to the disadvantage of other local governments.
There are other examples of how RCID has been bad for the local population, and led to residents hoping that the district would be dissolved as far back as 30 years ago.
Maybe instead of trying to attack my position you offer some of your own points? Why is RCID needed in 2023? Why shouldn't the local population have more of a say on businesses that are impacting their way of life? Are you usually pro corporation or only in the case of Disney being able to control RCID?
I have a hard time believing there were so many fans of improvement districts prior to the governor's position.
Thank goodness this isn't a Disney issue to be dealt with anymore.
That was true at one time. It changed in the recent weeks. That you didn't know know until yesterday just means you're not keeping up with changes in the legislation. That's a reflection on your inability to stay current with weeks old news while continuing to post as if there was no new information in the last six moths. Please do better if you're going to comment on current events.
All that tells us is that the firefighters don't like their current contract and want a better one. That's not news. They might get one, they might not with the new boss. It's a bet they're placing.
Any source to support there are more RCID employees that support this? Particularly since you're not current on lots of other information.
There is at least 5 employees we can confidently assume are do not support this.
No, you've not read, or refused to accept, or just ignored. That's not the same as not being given. Many people have posted with possible impacts.
And there it is. None of the facts actually matter, it's a my team vs your team thing. And if you're not on my team, then it's OK for the government to retaliate against you.
You can have that view. Just stop trying to justify it with incorrect facts. Get some pom poms and go at the cheering.
Either, you're just not very creative in your reading of it, or you're just being obtuse like above.
Have some self respect. If you are for the government retaliation when it's not your side, just own that. Fly that flag proudly.
el_super
Well-Known Member
You're right on this, but the idea that the power of authority over Reedy Creek is being transitioned into a method where the residents of Orange County and Osceola County actually have SOME say over who gets appointed (thru their votes for Governor) is a win for democracy. Hopefully you can acknowledge that, even if you disagree with the current governor's motivation.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
No, it’s not. It completely contradicts the principle of home rule enshrined in the state constitution.
el_super
Well-Known Member
So which is it? You're trying to have it both ways, which ironically Disney has been accused of doing for decades with regard to RCID.
If Disney, as a corporation, had no power of control over RCID, then literally nothing is being changed here other than how the board is appointed. Then why the 400+ pages of outrage for a nothing change?
Chi84
Premium Member
So do you think it's okay for the government to deliberately take action (even ineffectual action) against a corporation for speaking out against legislation it disagrees with? The governor has repeatedly made statements to the effect that this action was taken in response to Disney's statements about a piece of legislation. (I'm not sure what lies you're talking about but freedom of speech is pretty broadly defined and protected.)
I don't live in Florida and I don't care about the popularity of its governor, but what is being done here does not bode well for people who legally exercise their rights to oppose legislation they don't like.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yes, and you should have stopped there. You repeatedly just keep posting complete non-sense and have shown zero interest in actually getting educated on the topic.
el_super
Well-Known Member
How does homerule work when the residents are appointed by a company in California?
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I live in Utah. The Utah TV news stations have not been following the current session in Tallahassee. I doubt they ever have.
I don't follow Florida news routinely. Nor do I follow the local news in Vermont or Papua New Guinea. But this news broke on a national scale yesterday, which is how I saw a headline about it yesterday, from a national media outlet.
I did get up to speed here yesterday quite quickly. Once I realized that local taxpayers would not be on the hook for the RCID going away, and that no one could come up with an example of how this will change the daily operation of WDW, my opinion on this matter changed to "What's the big deal?"
It also tells me the RCID firefighters and their union like Governor DeSantis, and are happy to help him land a political win.
I'm going to go read the entire CFTOD bill here in a few minutes, after I make some hot cocoa. Has anyone else read the bill in its entirety yet? Any section I should particularly focus on?
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
No, I'm fully up to speed on that. There's no change in taxation for local taxpayers and residents! Good news! They fixed it!
So, what else has changed? I haven't seen much evidence of real change for WDW, it's customers or employees.
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