News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

el_super

Well-Known Member
It doesn’t work anything like that.

Ok I knew it was going to be a thing... but it didn't take all that long to find it (from 1990):

ORLANDO, Fla. —​
The chairman of the Walt Disney Co. on Friday said the government of Orlando is incompetent, but later apologized for the off-the-cuff remark.​
Disney Chairman Michael D. Eisner also said he was a “little annoyed” by a legal challenge to Disney’s right to use tax-exempt bonds for improvements to its central Florida holdings.​
Disney’s governmental arm, the Reedy Creek Improvement District, won all $57 million in tax-exempt bonds available in six central Florida counties this year and plans to use them to upgrade Disney’s sewage system.​
Orange County officials, who wanted to use the bonds to raise $19 million to finance affordable housing, asked Reedy Creek to surrender some of the bonds, but district officials refused, saying they had gotten their application in first and had won the bonds fairly. A judge ruled in Disney’s favor Thursday.​



 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Ok I knew it was going to be a thing... but it didn't take all that long to find it (from 1990):

ORLANDO, Fla. —​
The chairman of the Walt Disney Co. on Friday said the government of Orlando is incompetent, but later apologized for the off-the-cuff remark.​
Disney Chairman Michael D. Eisner also said he was a “little annoyed” by a legal challenge to Disney’s right to use tax-exempt bonds for improvements to its central Florida holdings.​
Disney’s governmental arm, the Reedy Creek Improvement District, won all $57 million in tax-exempt bonds available in six central Florida counties this year and plans to use them to upgrade Disney’s sewage system.​
Orange County officials, who wanted to use the bonds to raise $19 million to finance affordable housing, asked Reedy Creek to surrender some of the bonds, but district officials refused, saying they had gotten their application in first and had won the bonds fairly. A judge ruled in Disney’s favor Thursday.​



That’s 33 years ago btw.

But your example doesn’t show that Disney was exempt from any taxes. It shows that RCID was able to issue tax free bonds which is obviously well known. In the example you cite the issue wasn’t the districts ability to issue bonds, the issue was the incompetence of other municipalities in the region. The fact that RCID was more efficient and well run is not a mark against the district
 
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mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
That’s 33 years ago btw.

But your example doesn’t show that Disney was exempt from any taxes. It shows that RCID was able to issue tax free bonds which is obviously well known. In the example you cite the issue wasn’t the districts ability to issue bonds, the issue was the incompetence of other municipalities in the region. The fact that RCID was more efficiently and well run is not a mark against the district
Arguing that Disney is the reason Orlando couldn't fund public housing is like arguing that because NYC issued bonds, Orlando couldn't either.
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
OK... So how does the tax situation work? I know that Orange County has been at odds with Reedy Creek for decades and the two always seem to disagree about what is and is not taxed appropriately. My understanding was that the district allowed them to avoid certain taxes that the country would normally leverage and that they are also entitled to certain other tax free benefits.

Probably not all that much if Disney is willing to give it up now, but certainly enough that Disney kept RCID in place for nearly 60 years.

Incorrect. The disagreements over taxes were between Disney and the counties and they came in the form of tax appeals, which are no different than any other property owner could file. Disney avoids absolutely zero county taxes as a result of RCID's existence. In fact, RCID's existence is what causes Disney to pay MORE taxes than other property owners in the 2 counties since they pay their full tax rate to the counties AND pay taxes to RCID on top of that. The whole "they haven't been paying their fair share of taxes" gimmick was nothing more than a blatant lie repeated ad nauseum in order to get people to support punishing Disney for exercising its rights. The fact that this lie was front and center should tell you all you need to know about the situation.
 

durangojim

Well-Known Member
Just imagine if Chapek had said way back when this bill was introduced, "We disagree with this bill and it's premise and feel it will harm cast members and their families. We hope the state of Florida will reconsider." and then that was it. He would have appeased enough people where it would have blown over and none of this would be going on. That guy had no idea how to be CEO Disney or how to play politics.
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Ok I knew it was going to be a thing... but it didn't take all that long to find it (from 1990):

ORLANDO, Fla. —​
The chairman of the Walt Disney Co. on Friday said the government of Orlando is incompetent, but later apologized for the off-the-cuff remark.​
Disney Chairman Michael D. Eisner also said he was a “little annoyed” by a legal challenge to Disney’s right to use tax-exempt bonds for improvements to its central Florida holdings.​
Disney’s governmental arm, the Reedy Creek Improvement District, won all $57 million in tax-exempt bonds available in six central Florida counties this year and plans to use them to upgrade Disney’s sewage system.​
Orange County officials, who wanted to use the bonds to raise $19 million to finance affordable housing, asked Reedy Creek to surrender some of the bonds, but district officials refused, saying they had gotten their application in first and had won the bonds fairly. A judge ruled in Disney’s favor Thursday.​



Do you understand what a tax-exempt bond is? It means the person who buys the bonds (banks, investors, average citizens looking to earn better interest than a savings account without the risk of stocks) don't have to pay taxes on the interest they receive from the bond issuer (in this case, RCID).
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Hopefully we can all agree the new bill was a retaliation for speaking out against a Florida law. This is wrong and should not have happened. The thing is Disney is not exactly working from some moral high ground. They have censored their own content to appease the Chinese government so they can show their content in China to make more money. Not to mention they have no moral consientious in buying goods made by Chinese slave labor. The purpose of the corporation is for doing what is best to improve their profits. So why in the world did they step their foot in their mouth by speaking out on a very volatile political issue. Has anyone noticed that Iger did not respond when the bill passed, he sent Jeff Vahle to make a statement. In NO way does this excuse the State of Florida. It just tells me that Disney has stepped in a pile of pooh and knows there is no good way out. The truth is if Disney can work with the Chinese government, they sure can work with a 5 member board appointed by the governor.
The fact that it's even a comparison at all between the FL government and CCP should frighten anyone who values free speech.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Ok I knew it was going to be a thing... but it didn't take all that long to find it (from 1990):
You're falling for the bad reporting. Where people treat RCID as if it were Disney. It's not just a technicality that thy are different, but a very important part of the structure.

Let's edit this:
ORLANDO, Fla. —
Disney Chairman Michael D. Eisner also said he was a “little annoyed” by a legal challenge to RCID's right to use tax-exempt bonds for improvements to its central Florida holdings.​
The Reedy Creek Improvement District, won all $57 million in tax-exempt bonds available in six central Florida counties this year and plans to use them to upgrade RCID’s sewage system.​
Orange County officials, who wanted to use the bonds to raise $19 million to finance affordable housing, asked Reedy Creek to surrender some of the bonds, but district officials refused, saying they had gotten their application in first and had won the bonds fairly. A judge ruled in RCID’s favor Thursday.​

Let's assume that RCID sewage system needed the improvements. That without them some other development going on within RCID's boundaries would be impacted. Perhaps the system was at risk of failure and sewage could start backing up into hotels. RCID is a public government entity, created just like any other FL government entity, and responsible for that sewage. They sold some bonds and are using taxes they collect to pay them.

If RCID, which collects extra taxes from Disney beyond what the counties collect, didn't exist, then this would be the county sewage system paid for by the entire county tax base.

Now, you'll wonder why a Disney Chairman would care about one local government fighting with another, and the answer is simple. That Chairman runs or was trying to expand hotels and other usage that depend on that sewage system. Without the update, the ability to provide business would be diminished.

You appear to be angry about a lie and not actual facts.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
That’s 33 years ago btw.

Oh I know. And to be honest I only remember it because of Eisner's comments on Orlando.

But it sets up the context I am using here: Disney has in Orlando, much in the same way they had in Anaheim, used their political power to achieve an advantage. RCID was the embodiment of that special power. It has put them in direct competition with Orange County through their existence. They purposefully used their position as a "public" government to fully support and subsidize a private corporation.

Even if you can accept their tax position, and endorse the idea of a private company running a public government, how do you reconcile the competition for resources? Is it ok for instance that Disney can monopolize construction capacity for new hotels (or I guess new sewage systems) making it harder to construct housing or other public works projects?


But your example doesn’t show that Disney was exempt from any taxes. It shows that RCID was able to issue tax free bonds which is obviously well known. In the example you cite the issue wasn’t the districts ability to issue bonds, the issue was the incompetence of other municipalities in the region. The fact that RCID was more efficient and well run is not a mark against the district

So further reading suggests that RCID is exempt from paying the special law enforcement taxes and the impact fees that normal developers would pay. I can see the argument that if Disney was providing its own roads and law enforcement, they shouldn't have to pay the county, but that's where things get murky since Disney contracts with the Orange County sheriff and all their roads eventually connect to other public roads.

And you're right, on some level it's not Disney's fault for asking for the district, or leveraging it to the best of their ability. But at the point where you are prioritizing projects to build amusement parks in a swamp rather than affordable housing, something has gone wrong.

That a lot of people in Orange Country felt like they were powerless against RCID, and started to harbor unfavorable opinions of Disney and their political lobbying (and yes to be clear, I am referring to 30+ years of this, and not just what they said in the last two), is the reason why fighting to save RCID was untenable. It wasn't worth saving.

It's also a trip to go back and read some of these (again from 1990):

Now more than ever, some county commissioners want to see Disney’s political wings clipped, but they are bound by last summer’s road agreement to stay mum for the next seven years.​
Some local leaders hope the Florida Legislature will move to undo what it did for Disney more than 20 years ago, but that seems unlikely. Disney remains enormously popular in the state, where a University of Central Florida survey concluded 18 months ago that locals endorse the tourist industry 3 to 1. And in Florida, tourism is synonymous with Disney.​
“I think you could classify Disney as the strongest lobby in Tallahassee (the state capital),” Marston said. “A couple of weeks ago Disney invited every legislator in the state and their families to come to Disney World for the weekend--all expenses paid. I don’t know who took them up. I certainly wouldn’t.”​
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Just imagine if Chapek had said way back when this bill was introduced, "We disagree with this bill and it's premise and feel it will harm cast members and their families. We hope the state of Florida will reconsider." and then that was it. He would have appeased enough people where it would have blown over and none of this would be going on. That guy had no idea how to be CEO Disney or how to play politics.
Just imagine if DeSantis had followed years of legal precedent by not retaliating against a company for saying something he disagreed with.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Conspiracy Theory: Can this new board force Disney to pay off the debt that the district holds? I'm wondering if this new board can be used to "punish" Disney by forcing them to shell out $1 billion with little notice.

No

These are bonds - funded by revnues and taxes. Taxes that are capped in what they can be.
They're capped, but they can be larger than they currently are.

The new board could raise the tax rate from it's current value to the maximum cap. They could also also reduce improvement projects and cut back on other services to reduce spending. Then, use all the now "extra" money to pay down bonds that are able to be paid early.

The fire department may think they'll get a better deal from the new board. But, they could just as easily cut staffing and service levels to reduce costs and use the money for something else instead. It's not like anyone that depends on the fire services will be able to vote them out.
 

sullyinMT

Well-Known Member
Still defending Florida?

Perhaps this is reading into things, but I don’t feel this is way off from where things are headed.



This guy can’t get out of his own way. He’s building the case against himself every time he opens his mouth. The very minute his appointees misstep in the new district’s management, or try to pressure Disney or WDW on content, I don’t see how a court would side with FL/the district/DeSantis. His comments, and those of others, keep piling up.

The more he offers up soundbites of stupidity, the more I think Iger is playing a long game, to solidify their (TWDC) case.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Hopefully we can all agree the new bill was a retaliation for speaking out against a Florida law. This is wrong and should not have happened. The thing is Disney is not exactly working from some moral high ground. They have censored their own content to appease the Chinese government so they can show their content in China to make more money. Not to mention they have no moral consientious in buying goods made by Chinese slave labor. The purpose of the corporation is for doing what is best to improve their profits. So why in the world did they step their foot in their mouth by speaking out on a very volatile political issue. Has anyone noticed that Iger did not respond when the bill passed, he sent Jeff Vahle to make a statement. In NO way does this excuse the State of Florida. It just tells me that Disney has stepped in a pile of pooh and knows there is no good way out. The truth is if Disney can work with the Chinese government, they sure can work with a 5 member board appointed by the governor.
No mention of approx 70% of our meds are manufactured in China? Some of them saved lives including my own.
 

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