News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[el_super]

The whole "they haven't been paying their fair share of taxes" gimmick was nothing more than a blatant lie repeated ad nauseum in order to get people to support punishing Disney for exercising its rights. The fact that this lie was front and center should tell you all you need to know about the situation.

So full disclosure on what I am reading. From the Orlando Sentinal (pre-Don't Say Gay):

At one point, Disney’s exemption from paying impact fees raised eyebrows from officials in Orange County.​

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In the 1980s, county officials threatened to sue Disney over the constitutionality of its Reedy Creek charter.​

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Then-commissioner Lou Treadway put it this way: “Without question, Disney is the largest taxpayer in Orange County. Without question, Disney is the largest employer in Orange County. And without question, Disney causes some of the greatest impact in Orange County.”​

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Ultimately, the company and the local government came to an agreement in 1989 and Disney paid about $13 million for road improvements outside its property. In exchange, Orange County agreed not to challenge Reedy Creek’s charter for seven years.​

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When the agreement ended, Disney stopped paying the fees. And Orange leaders haven’t pushed the issue since.​

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Disney is also immune from a tax that other property owners pay to fund law enforcement.​

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If the company was required to pay the tax, it would total about $21.1 million in fiscal year 2020, according to an analysis by the Orange County comptroller’s office. Instead, Reedy Creek will pay about $10.5 million in a contract with the Orange County Sheriff’s Office.​

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That means Reedy Creek — and Disney by extension — nets a savings of about $10.6 million a year thanks to the tax exemption.​

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Disney notes it pays other taxes that offset the benefits built into its charter.​

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Orlando hotel taxes don’t pay for roads or housing like in other cities. One reason: Disney and Universal’s political power

From the Florida Keys to Portland, Oregon, cities are increasingly turning to tourist taxes as one way to solve problems that come with being a top travel destination. In the Keys, a portion of the…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[lazyboy97o]

But it sets up the context I am using here: Disney has in Orlando, much in the same way they had in Anaheim, used their political power to achieve an advantage. RCID was the embodiment of that special power. It has put them in direct competition with Orange County through their existence. They purposefully used their position as a "public" government to fully support and subsidize a private corporation.

Even if you can accept their tax position, and endorse the idea of a private company running a public government, how do you reconcile the competition for resources? Is it ok for instance that Disney can monopolize construction capacity for new hotels (or I guess new sewage systems) making it harder to construct housing or other public works projects?

This isn’t something unique to Disney. Universal is seeking their own community development district right now and it too will have the power to issue bonds.

So further reading suggests that RCID is exempt from paying the special law enforcement taxes and the impact fees that normal developers would pay. I can see the argument that if Disney was providing its own roads and law enforcement, they shouldn't have to pay the county, but that's where things get murky since Disney contracts with the Orange County sheriff and all their roads eventually connect to other public roads.

Impact fees go to support the building of infrastructure. The District builds the infrastructure. Universal Orlando Resort North Campus doesn’t pay Orange County impact fees because they’re in the city of Orlando and that’s who is responsible for the infrastructure.

Law enforcement taxes aren’t levied because the sheriff’s department is paid directly to be the police force within the district.

That a lot of people in Orange Country felt like they were powerless against RCID, and started to harbor unfavorable opinions of Disney and their political lobbying (and yes to be clear, I am referring to 30+ years of this, and not just what they said in the last two), is the reason why fighting to save RCID was untenable. It wasn't worth saving.

More stuff you are just making up. There was no public push to be done with the District. The whole reason the District was kept was because dissolution was going to be unpopular.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The fire department may think they'll get a better deal from the new board. But, they could just as easily cut staffing and service levels to reduce costs and use the money for something else instead. It's not like anyone that depends on the fire services will be able to vote them out.

They could fire the whole lot of them and contract services to the county. The new board is tasked with reducing the district’s power and authority, and handing things off to the counties would do just that.

 

[Lilofan]

They're capped, but they can be larger than they currently are.

The new board could raise the tax rate from it's current value to the maximum cap. They could also also reduce improvement projects and cut back on other services to reduce spending. Then, use all the now "extra" money to pay down bonds that are able to be paid early.

The fire department may think they'll get a better deal from the new board. But, they could just as easily cut staffing and service levels to reduce costs and use the money for something else instead. It's not like anyone that depends on the fire services will be able to vote them out.

All it takes is a major incident at WDW , firefighters short staffed if that is the case , and staffing will improve after the media talks up the issues.

 

[el_super]

You're falling for the bad reporting.

So it's all just fake news if it disagrees with your world view?

Let's assume that RCID sewage system needed the improvements.

Specifically they were using the funds to implement sewage improvements to support further development (building new hotels).

Do you think that a community, or a state, or even a federal government, should have some say in whether resources should go into building expansions for private enterprise or affordable housing for the public good? OR should we all just submit to the corporate overlords that are able to be more "efficient" in submitting forms?

You appear to be angry about a lie and not actual facts.

But I'm not angry? I'm actually happy that Disney is losing control of the RCID... remember?

 

[Disney Analyst]

Considering his other antics, this isn’t far-fetched to believe at all. I could definitely see something like Gay Days and any BHM events at WDW getting cancelled.

That’s exactly when I could see Disney acting and taking them to court.

 

[mmascari]

They could fire the whole lot of them and contract services to the county. The new board is tasked with reducing the district’s power and authority, and handing things off to the counties would do just that.

If I was placing a bet. I would bet that one of the lawyers owns (or has a financial interest) in a private fire or ambulance service. That they would fire everyone and then contract with that private entity for services. Instead of moving to the county. It would be a super super easy way to reduce costs, reduce services more, and skim off the top by contracting with a service they have a financial interst in.

This is obviously all opinion. But, nothing about the current structure would prevent it. In fact, it almost encourages it, since the pay for being a board member is so low.

I would assume the county isn't interested in contracting to provide the service if they're not being forced to do it. They know what it would take to provide good service and wouldn't want to be blamed for poor service. Unless they're forced into it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Do you think that a community, or a state, or even a federal government, should have some say in whether resources should go into building expansions for private enterprise or affordable housing for the public good? OR should we all just submit to the corporate overlords that are able to be more "efficient" in submitting forms?

Again, this isn’t unique to Reedy Creek Improvement District. There are literally hundreds of such districts in Florida.

 

[Californian Elitist]

That’s exactly when I could see Disney acting and taking them to court.

I would like to think so.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

And it should frighten anyone the extents a corporation will go to make a few more bucks.

Completely irrelevant to this situation. Corporate greed isn't new or illegal, and certainly isn't part of the governor's crusade against "woke."

 

[mightynine]

Again, this isn’t unique to Reedy Creek Improvement District. There are literally hundreds of such districts in Florida.

No, no - let them keep digging up decades old examples that don't make the point Supe thinks they do, instead of them realizing they can just say they are glad RCID is gone and leave it at that (even though it's not, it just has new red tape, uh, I mean, leadership). It's great entertainment.

 

[mmascari]

So it's all just fake news if it disagrees with your world view?

Reporting that equates Disney and RCID as if they are the same thing and not two distinct entities is by definition misleading. That's not my world view, it's just a fact. Frequently, the distinction may not matter, so glossing it over isn't a big deal. However, frequently it does matter and glossing it over presents actual incorrect information. Incorrect information that you seem to be angry exists (even though it doesn't actually exist).

Specifically they were using the funds to implement sewage improvements to support further development (building new hotels).

Do you think that a community, or a state, or even a federal government, should have some say in whether resources should go into building expansions for private enterprise or affordable housing for the public good? OR should we all just submit to the corporate overlords that are able to be more "efficient" in submitting forms?

All those entities had a say. The specific community and voters within the RCID boundaries had a say, and yes they decided that improving the sewage system to increase development was a good idea.

If you don't like that policy decision, maybe talk to the people who made it and convince them it's a bad idea. Or, I don't know, maybe just do a hostile takeover of their government and impost control without them having input any longer. That seems to be your preference.

 

[el_super]

This isn’t something unique to Disney. Universal is seeking their own community development district right now and it too will have the power to issue bonds.

Which in the context of "Disney can do it, so we should be fair to universal" probably makes the most sense, but it's another sign of public government ceding power over to corporate interests.

Impact fees go to support the building of infrastructure. The District builds the infrastructure.

Yes, but specifically we have people in Orange Country saying that Disney isn't paying for the impact that it has on county roads and infrastructure. That's an issue right? Yes they pay for their own infrastructure, which is great. Yes they still pay taxes to Orange County, but if those taxes have to go into covering additional infrastructure costs impacting the county, the county can't spend those taxes on other services such as education.

So you have a situation now where the impact that Walt Disney World creates against Orlando/Orange County is greater than any other entity in the county, but the county's authority to remedy that impact is hamstrung by a special interest district.

Law enforcement taxes aren’t levied because the sheriff’s department is paid directly to be the police force within the district.

So specifically, from the other article I quoted, it seems that Disney's tax burden would be about 10 million more than they are actually paying, if they were actually required to pay the tax. The benefit to Disney here is similar to above: they pay 10 million a year to have the sheriff located on property and assist when needed, but the overall impact of Disney World to the county might actually be closer to the 20 million (or even more). So the county has to divert funds and resources to cover that gap.

More stuff you are just making up. There was no public push to be done with the District. The whole reason the District was kept was because dissolution was going to be unpopular.

That's not what I am arguing. What I am arguing is, a giant global mega corporation playing the victim isn't a good PR look for Disney. Their actions over the course of 30 years, have not made them many friends in Florida and fighting this would absolutely make them look bad and play exactly into what the governor wants them to do.

 

[peter11435]

So it's all just fake news if it disagrees with your world view?




Specifically they were using the funds to implement sewage improvements to support further development (building new hotels).

Do you think that a community, or a state, or even a federal government, should have some say in whether resources should go into building expansions for private enterprise or affordable housing for the public good? OR should we all just submit to the corporate overlords that are able to be more "efficient" in submitting forms?




But I'm not angry? I'm actually happy that Disney is losing control of the RCID... remember?

It has nothing to do with different world views. The fake news being referenced is factually inaccurate and misleading.

I’m not sure you understand how these bonds are granted.

It’s not Disneys fault that RCID made other local governments look bad. I can certainly see why some politicians would be bothered by their constituents seeing a well functioning and efficient government that operates with the needs of its electorate top of mind

 

[flynnibus]

They're capped, but they can be larger than they currently are.

The new board could raise the tax rate from it's current value to the maximum cap. They could also also reduce improvement projects and cut back on other services to reduce spending. Then, use all the now "extra" money to pay down bonds that are able to be paid early.

Sure, but none of that is "forcing them to shell out $1 billion with little notice"

 

[el_super]

However, frequently it does matter and glossing it over presents actual incorrect information. Incorrect information that you seem to be angry exists (even though it doesn't actually exist).

What? What was incorrect in the article I posted?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Which in the context of "Disney can do it, so we should be fair to universal" probably makes the most sense, but it's another sign of public government ceding power over to corporate interests.

Corporate interests of what? How their land is used?

Yes, but specifically we have people in Orange Country saying that Disney isn't paying for the impact that it has on county roads and infrastructure. That's an issue right? Yes they pay for their own infrastructure, which is great. Yes they still pay taxes to Orange County, but if those taxes have to go into covering additional infrastructure costs impacting the county, the county can't spend those taxes on other services such as education.

So you have a situation now where the impact that Walt Disney World creates against Orlando/Orange County is greater than any other entity in the county, but the county's authority to remedy that impact is hamstrung by a special interest district.

Epic Universe is going to impact Orlando and Orlando will get squat. Most of Walt Disney World is in Orange County, so Osceola County would get squat. Impact fees are also rather small, measured in a few thousands of dollars. Disney would have to be building hundreds of thousands of NEW square feet of development every year to make up the difference in what they save the counties by building their own infrastructure.

So specifically, from the other article I quoted, it seems that Disney's tax burden would be about 10 million more than they are actually paying, if they were actually required to pay the tax. The benefit to Disney here is similar to above: they pay 10 million a year to have the sheriff located on property and assist when needed, but the overall impact of Disney World to the county might actually be closer to the 20 million (or even more). So the county has to divert funds and resources to cover that gap.

Is this some sort of new math? The service is paid for directly but it somehow should cost more? The county isn’t obligated to offer a discounted rate.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's statements like this that keep showing me this topic is mostly about Ron DeSantis and his immense popularity with a large majority of voters in his state than it is about the changes to the RCID.

But I'll just ask...

Through what avenue or power would a government district that provides water/sewer, electrical utilities, road maintenance and safety services (AKA the new CFTOD that replaces RCID) dictate how a theme park in its district operates special events or what merchandise it places on the shelves of The Emporium?

That would be like the Anaheim Public Utilities Department telling Disneyland they have to stop offering Date Night events in the park.

There is no system in place for the CFTOD to guide, or even comment on, the daily operation of parks or hotels or facilities in the district. I haven't read the entire text of the Bill that created the CFTOD though, so if there's a passage I missed that gives them the authority to dictate how to run and operate the parks, much less dictate artistic decisions about theme events or park decorations, please let me know.

Certificate of Occupancy.

 

[mmascari]

What? What was incorrect in the article I posted?

You haven't posted anything that RCID actually does that you disagree with.

You've posted that you disagree about at lot of things people think RCID did, but that it does not actually do.

You've posted that the Sheriff signed a bad contract and didn't charge enough, then blamed the buyer for getting a good deal.

You've posted that the county thinks it doesn't get enough money and is unable to cover impacts, even though Disney is the single largest taxpayer to the county. A thing that RCID has no impact on at all also.

Mostly, you've just posted noise with no substance. It's kind of exhausting to even read all lack of understanding.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Apart from him saying that he would attempt to shape Disney content from his throne in Tallahassee? Announce a random safety inspection closing all or most of the complex, or just MK, or limiting access to roads for maintenance on those days.

Even if not fully closed, manipulating traffic or utility access can shape people’s behavior just as easily as saying that the next LL is available in Adventureland when most people are in New Fantasyland (data manipulation).

It’s not far fetched, and recent behavior from FL is that of a bully, so nothing would shock me.

Finding code violations is incredibly easy. And it wouldn’t be tossed out of court because it’s a real issue related to a real power. Maybe an extreme punishment like a large fine could be undone, but that’s about it.