News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[mmascari]

one could argue letting companies create there own city’s is a dumb idea but it’s done all over the world.

How much continuous land should we limit companies to buying?
Do we let them buy whatever, but then limit what they build on it?
Would that apply to something like a rancher in Montana too?

And we have the party of Big Government insisting that it’s OK for an enormous corporation to run its own government.

Is that really what we have? I thought we had a local government, with rights over a specific area of land that is (currently) elected by those that they govern over? Is that not right?

This is much like the special tax district description.

RCID is a special tax district that covers the land Walt Disney World is on.

• People hear - Disney isn't paying taxes because of their special district.
• Reality - Disney pays extra taxes to the special district on top of other taxes.

Disney shouldn't own a city.

• People hear - Disney runs a company town. There are people subject to all the bad things that are part of a company town.
• Reality - Walt Disney World could have been one huge private property with no public roads. However, they transferred land to a local governing body to maintain and support as public through that governing body's taxing authority.

Disney shouldn't run it's own government.

• People hear - Disney runs a government that others are controlled by and have no say. This excludes them from other governments and it's the company town problem again.
• Reality - There is an extra local government on top of both county governments that Disney is subjected too. For the extra special government, all the people governed by it (currently) get to vote on it's elected officials.

I get why politicians misrepresent this. It's unfortunate that the media seems to just parrot them and not report the actuality. It's less clear why posters in this thread don't understand the difference.

Instead of "here's this special thing Disney controls that gives them super powers", I'm sure someone could write and entire description of RCID and how it works as "here's this extra additional government controlling what happens to all things around Walt Disney World that Disney is subjected to".

 

[Andrew C]

How much continuous land should we limit companies to buying?
Do we let them buy whatever, but then limit what they build on it?
Would that apply to something like a rancher in Montana too?

Straight out of Yellowstone AND Clarkson's Farm?

 

[Dranth]

Ask yourself how a gun rights advocate feels every time a state passes a law to limit gun rights.

Ask yourself how a pro-choice advocate feels every time a state passes a law limiting abortions.

Are these examples of government overreach or good government?

Ask different courts and they almost certainly will rule differently on these issues. Courts are not like baseball umpires calling balls-and-strikes. Associate Justices Thomas and Sotomayor read the exact same laws and precedent, yet often reach diametrically opposed decisions.

Disney's legal team is fully aware of this. They are fully aware of that the Florida Supreme Court, Eleventh Circuit, and the U.S. Supreme Court are heavily conservative. Some want to believe they would rule in Disney's favor because that's what they think should happen. To this, I suggest simply asking yourself how happy you are with recent court rulings.

Nearly everyone on this thread thought Disney had a strong First Amendment case, yet it appears Disney decided not to pursue it. There are many reasons for this but it would be irresponsible for them not to if they thought they had an open-and-shut case. Disney's legal team must have had at least some doubt about the outcome. I doubt this would be the case if there were six liberal justices sitting on the Supreme Court.

I agree different courts will rule differently, what I don't agree with is that the state or federal courts would automatically side with the State in this case just because they are on their "team". Conservative courts have gone against conservative laws more than once of late. Sure, as you said, there is a chance they wouldn’t but I don’t think a court coming out saying Florida can mess with your business if you exercise your right to free speech would help the state much in the long run so from my point of view, why not? Force the state to look like a totalitarian regime, you are already losing control of RCID.

Now, to be fair, that is easy for me to say as I have nothing on the line but other than the cost of the legal proceedings, what does Disney really have to lose? The people that don’t like them aren’t going to change their minds anytime soon because there will still be underrepresented groups in the upcoming movies and shows. There is still going to be a new, sustainably sourced, co-op salt mountain coming to the Magic Kingdom. None of the things that make that group upset is going to change.

Finally, I believe Disney still does have a strong 1A case but I don’t think they even need it. There is more than one way to attack this if they choose. Why they don’t, only they know but there is a huge difference between having a good case and wanting to go through with it.

Edited to add:
I see the first part of my reply was removed but the part I was commenting on remain so I am operating under the assumption it's okay to respond but to be more general. Not sure so here goes... I would say the answer depends on the law we are talking about. It is hard to say if something is overreach without knowing the specifics. I would hope that if it was an egregious case of Government retaliation that the courts would act appropriately.

 

[sullyinMT]

How much continuous land should we limit companies to buying?
Do we let them buy whatever, but then limit what they build on it?
Would that apply to something like a rancher in Montana too?

Montanans and public/private land use. The only thing more complicated than the relationship between RCID and Disney.

 

[mmascari]

Montanans and public/private land use. The only thing more complicated than the relationship between RCID and Disney.

I’ll admit, I picked Montana on the assumption there could be a ranch there with the same acreage as WDW. Obviously with less city infrastructure on it. Something that certainly doesn’t exist for say a dairy farm in Vermont, or anything in Pennsylvania.

I forgot about the entire use of public land in some of that math.

Maybe agriculture fields in Kansas or one of the Dakotas matches the size of WDW.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’ll admit, I picked Montana on the assumption there could be a ranch there with the same acreage as WDW. Obviously with less city infrastructure on it. Something that certainly doesn’t exist for say a dairy farm in Vermont, or anything in Pennsylvania.

I forgot about the entire use of public land in some of that math.

Maybe agriculture fields in Kansas or one of the Dakotas matches the size of WDW.

Ted Turner has ranches bigger than RCID in Montana, Kansas and the Dakotas.

 

[sullyinMT]

I’ll admit, I picked Montana on the assumption there could be a ranch there with the same acreage as WDW. Obviously with less city infrastructure on it. Something that certainly doesn’t exist for say a dairy farm in Vermont, or anything in Pennsylvania.

I forgot about the entire use of public land in some of that math.

Maybe agriculture fields in Kansas or one of the Dakotas matches the size of WDW.

I don’t know the total acreage of the Stillwater mine, or the whole of the JDM platinum vein, but the infrastructure is mind boggling for those sites. And the relationships between private, federal, and state are all kinds of convoluted in such areas. The Great Northern Railroad was instrumental in the creation of Glacier National Park, and was privately operated and owned at the time.

Alaska’s frontiers are probably similar.

And, like the current mess with RCID, it’s not always pretty. But I don’t think it’s ever been so overtly hostile over political speech. This entire situation is frightening in its precedent and potential for abuse, honestly.

 

[castlecake2.0]

What happens to Reedy Creek Energy Services? It’s fully owned by TWDC isn’t it? Also is there anything saying Reedy Creek Emergency Services needs to change its name?

 

[MagicHappens1971]

What happens to Reedy Creek Energy Services? It’s fully owned by TWDC isn’t it? Also is there anything saying Reedy Creek Emergency Services needs to change its name?

It is fully owned by TWDC. I’m unsure of what would happen post RCID dissolution. The governor can’t force them to change the name of the company. The district contracts RCES to supply power and the like

 

[MagicHappens1971]

It is fully owned by TWDC. I’m unsure of what would happen post RCID dissolution. The governor can’t force them to change the name of the company. The district contracts RCES to supply power and the like

I guess that means the new district can choose to use RCES or stop using it and then Disney would dissolve the company? That seems pointless as they have their solar farms

 

[lazyboy97o]

What happens to Reedy Creek Energy Services? It’s fully owned by TWDC isn’t it? Also is there anything saying Reedy Creek Emergency Services needs to change its name?

When the contract ends, the District could chose to contract with other companies or provide the utility services directly themselves.

Given that the emergency services tend to be named have their jurisdiction I think most would take it as a given that the department name would change.

 

[Lilofan]

It is fully owned by TWDC. I’m unsure of what would happen post RCID dissolution. The governor can’t force them to change the name of the company. The district contracts RCES to supply power and the like

Post RCID dissolution not by Disney choice, the new companies taking over shouldn't get the perks Reedy Creek cast have such as free passes to the theme parks. They should pay a full price ticket like a regular guest.

 

[JohnD]

What happens to Reedy Creek Energy Services? It’s fully owned by TWDC isn’t it? Also is there anything saying Reedy Creek Emergency Services needs to change its name?

Or RCFD for that matter.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Post RCID dissolution not by Disney choice, the new companies taking over shouldn't get the perks Reedy Creek cast have such as free passes to the theme parks. They should pay a full price ticket like a regular guest.

Reedy Creek Energy Services employees are Disney employees.

 

[lazyboy97o]

For those wondering, two other special districts intended to be dissolved were maintained during the special session. HB 11B maintains the Sunshine Water Control District in Broward County and HB 12B maintains the Eastpoint Water and Sewer District in Franklin County. As of now, all three bills related to special district have been enrolled but have not yet been signed by the officers of the state houses and presented to the governor.

 

[mmascari]

Is there a list some place of all the organizations with "Reedy Creek" in the name?

Something that includes which ones are actually owned by "Reedy Creek Improvement District" vs which ones are independent and their own thing or owned by some other organization.

From the example in the last few posts, "Reedy Creek Energy Services" (RCES) is clearly an independent organization from "Reedy Creek Improvement District" (RCID). That while RCID contracts with RCES, RCES is NOT part of RCID. I'm sure someone here knows, something like solar power sites, the land, the panels, all the capital investment physical parts, are those owned by RCID or RCES? Is it just services that RCES is providing to RCID (maintenance, running the equipment)? Some mix of both? Even ownership of physical power lines would be a question. They could be privately owned, district owned, combination of both. Towns all over the US use different models for this.

The new law impacts RCID and any entity completely owned by RCID. Any entity partial owned by RCID is clearly impacted in some way, depending on how that ownership is split. Any entity with "Reedy Creek" in the name that's already completely independent isn't impacted at all. They will be impacted later if the changes impact how RCID contracts with them, but that's an independent factor.

All these different splits, different ownership, different entities, different responsibilities, all having similar names makes sense in the corporate structures for whatever reasons. But, it certainly makes it confusing when someone from the outside tries to understand what is actually included in RCID vs just a contractual agreement.

 

[mmascari]

For those wondering, two other special districts intended to be dissolved were maintained during the special session.

Do you know if there were any others impacted? Is anyone else still blowing in the wind caught up in this?

 

[Ayla]

For those wondering, two other special districts intended to be dissolved were maintained during the special session. HB 11B maintains the Sunshine Water Control District in Broward County and HB 12B maintains the Eastpoint Water and Sewer District in Franklin County. As of now, all three bills related to special district have been enrolled but have not yet been signed by the officers of the state houses and presented to the governor.

Do you think the delay is because of private wheeling and dealing going on behind the scenes? Or is it just typical government incompetence?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Do you think the delay is because of private wheeling and dealing going on behind the scenes? Or is it just typical government incompetence?

I've doubted the idea of meaningful negotiations this whole time, so I'm probably not the best one to ask. I also do not understand what people would even be referring to when they continue to say negotiations would be occurring. The bill is done. I don't know what else there is to discuss. Even if there was some deal to let Disney be involve din the board selection process, keeping that a secret would be hard and not at all play well for the governor.

I believe this is just part of the process. HB 7B, the other bill passed during the special session, was only just signed and presented yesterday. They have to do it at some point.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is there a list some place of all the organizations with "Reedy Creek" in the name?

Something that includes which ones are actually owned by "Reedy Creek Improvement District" vs which ones are independent and their own thing or owned by some other organization.

From the example in the last few posts, "Reedy Creek Energy Services" (RCES) is clearly an independent organization from "Reedy Creek Improvement District" (RCID). That while RCID contracts with RCES, RCES is NOT part of RCID. I'm sure someone here knows, something like solar power sites, the land, the panels, all the capital investment physical parts, are those owned by RCID or RCES? Is it just services that RCES is providing to RCID (maintenance, running the equipment)? Some mix of both? Even ownership of physical power lines would be a question. They could be privately owned, district owned, combination of both. Towns all over the US use different models for this.

The new law impacts RCID and any entity completely owned by RCID. Any entity partial owned by RCID is clearly impacted in some way, depending on how that ownership is split. Any entity with "Reedy Creek" in the name that's already completely independent isn't impacted at all. They will be impacted later if the changes impact how RCID contracts with them, but that's an independent factor.

All these different splits, different ownership, different entities, different responsibilities, all having similar names makes sense in the corporate structures for whatever reasons. But, it certainly makes it confusing when someone from the outside tries to understand what is actually included in RCID vs just a contractual agreement.

Reedy Creek Energy Services is the only company I know of that is currently using that name. There might have been a shell company that used the Reedy Creek name when the land was purchased, and some of those actually still exist, so it might still be out there.

According to the District website, they own everything and Reedy Creek Energy Services operates it on their behalf.

Utilities - Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

The District presently owns and operates all utility systems within the District. The systems include wastewater collection and treatment system, a reclaimed water distribution system, an electric generation and distribution system, […]

www.rcid.org