News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I doubt he'd veto it. It wouldn't have passed the legislature in the first place without his blessing, at least in this political climate.
I don’t doubt the legislation had his approval, but I also don’t think it being framed as caving was expected. The veto would be to try again to get something that plays more as him owning Disney. Don’t think it’s likely, but given that it’s such a factor in this whole thing I would not be surprised.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
You joke but that’s pretty much what I was expecting. Unless maybe a veto is being mulled over to try and come up with something that plays more as a win.
This may actually be what’s happening. The Governor falsely claimed that RCID was a huge tax break for Disney and he was going to take it away. We all know it’s not a tax break (actually the opposite) but now that the district remains the perception from anyone who believed it was a tax break is that he failed to take it away which is a big loss when you want to present the image of fighting work corporations. The political PR has been largely negative saying he didn’t go far enough. May be looking for an alternative plan.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Nobody said it wouldn't. Like Tiki Birds previously, it will be "under new management." Oh, wait...
Actually there were plenty of people who said it wouldn’t. Maybe not you, but that was a common theme.

I do love the Tiki Bird reference 🦜. I think he should sing the song while signing the bill.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
Nobody said it wouldn't. Like Tiki Birds previously, it will be "under new management." Oh, wait...

And we all now how well that worked out....

This may actually be what’s happening. The Governor falsely claimed that RCID was a huge tax break for Disney and he was going to take it away. We all know it’s not a tax break (actually the opposite) but now that the district remains the perception from anyone who believed it was a tax break is that he failed to take it away which is a big loss when you want to present the image of fighting work corporations. The political PR has been largely negative saying he didn’t go far enough. May be looking for an alternative plan.

The thing is, what else can he legitimately do without either saddling the counties with tons of debt or causing the bondholders to rise up?

Probably why the legislature determined about 15 years ago that you can't really undo this district.
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
This may actually be what’s happening. The Governor falsely claimed that RCID was a huge tax break for Disney and he was going to take it away. We all know it’s not a tax break (actually the opposite) but now that the district remains the perception from anyone who believed it was a tax break is that he failed to take it away which is a big loss when you want to present the image of fighting work corporations. The political PR has been largely negative saying he didn’t go far enough. May be looking for an alternative plan.
I wonder if he was counting on them calling his bluff and challenging in court. He'll have to own this if it's implemented
 

lewisc

Well-Known Member
The thing is, what else can he legitimately do without either saddling the counties with tons of debt or causing the bondholders to rise up?
I haven't read anything regarding bondholders, covenants or rights. It would be costly if bondholders could force redemption. New bonds would be issued at current rates.
I wonder if he was counting on them calling his bluff and challenging in court. He'll have to own this if it's implemented
Great point. Probably why Disney didn't rush to court. Emperor DeSantis doesn’t seem to be getting credit for sticking to Disney.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I haven't read anything regarding bondholders, covenants or rights. It would be costly if bondholders could force redemption. New bonds would be issued at current rates.
There is a pledge to bond holders in the original enabling legislation. Each bond issuance would also have its own terms, and we know at least one cannot be redeemed early.

Great point. Probably why Disney didn't rush to court. Emperor DeSantis doesn’t seem to be getting credit for sticking to Disney.
As of right now, no legal action can be taken regarding the plan to maintain the district.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The thing is, what else can he legitimately do without either saddling the counties with tons of debt or causing the bondholders to rise up?

Probably why the legislature determined about 15 years ago that you can't really undo this district.
Legally, not much else he can do…..but since this has been a political stunt from day 1 I would not be shocked if there is an additional bill passed at some point going back to dissolving the district. Remember last year it was done with a date of June 2024 to get long past the re-election campaign. I called it a stunt back then and sure enough it was, the bill was reversed. So if the goal is to raise funds and campaign on this issue again it’s conceivable they go back and pass a new bill “dissolving the district” to save political face and the gov just sets a date of say end of 2024 or June of 2025 when a certain other election is over. Why not go back to the play book that worked once?

I haven't read anything regarding bondholders, covenants or rights. It would be costly if bondholders could force redemption. New bonds would be issued at current rates.

Great point. Probably why Disney didn't rush to court. Emperor DeSantis doesn’t seem to be getting credit for sticking to Disney.
The bonds were issued with a guarantee from the State that the state government would not impede the district from collecting taxes since that is the primary source of revenue for the district. Dissolving the district clearly prevents it from collecting taxes and opens the state up to Federal securities fraud charges for violating the pledge in the initial bond offerings. Some of the bonds also have clauses that prevent early retirement as well which creates a further complexity.

As far as Disney rushing to court they really can’t show damages yet at the state level. If the new district prevents them from doing business or acts with poor intent they will most likely sue over whatever that particular issue is but it won’t be all that entertaining. Disney has likely chosen not to pursue a Federal 1st amendment case on grounds of Freedom of Speech. Any future lawsuit will probably be around tax assessments and more mundane issues around running the district. Just because the Governor has the right to appoint the board under this new law doesn’t mean they can act without any regard for laws or proper practices.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Just because the Governor has the right to appoint the board under this new law doesn’t mean they can act without any regard for laws or proper practices.
What laws or “proper practices” limit the ability of the board to control its administration as they see fit? What stops them from not approving projects and work? What stops them from creating more burdensome processes?
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
What laws or “proper practices” limit the ability of the board to control its administration as they see fit? What stops them from not approving projects and work? What stops them from creating more burdensome processes?
There are hundreds of special districts with Governor appointed boards that act appropriately. The board still has to have a reason to not approve a project or create a burdensome process. If they do take that action the constituents of the district (Disney) can then sue in court and have a judge decide whether the district board is acting in good faith. Again, just because the governor appointed the board does not mean they have absolute power to act as they like. Remember too that there are many judges (especially conservative ones) who would be very reluctant to side with big government, especially if they don’t have a sound and logical reason for their actions.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
There are hundreds of special districts with Governor appointed boards that act appropriately. The board still has to have a reason to not approve a project or create a burdensome process. If they do take that action the constituents of the district (Disney) can then sue in court and have a judge decide whether the district board is acting in good faith. Again, just because the governor appointed the board does not mean they have absolute power to act as they like. Remember too that there are many judges (especially conservative ones) who would be very reluctant to side with big government, especially if they don’t have a sound and logical reason for their actions.
None of those other districts were created for the purpose of causing harm.

Local jurisdictions often exercise broad powers and are given wide latitude when it comes to planning and development. They don’t need long, articulated arguments to stop projects. This is how a city can stop a Walmart for not “fitting the character of the neighborhood” which isn’t exactly a well established legal principle. The nightmare stories of projects taking years to get approved continue because it isn’t the purview of the courts to change the processes.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
None of those other districts were created for the purpose of causing harm.

Local jurisdictions often exercise broad powers and are given wide latitude when it comes to planning and development. They don’t need long, articulated arguments to stop projects. This is how a city can stop a Walmart for not “fitting the character of the neighborhood” which isn’t exactly a well established legal principle. The nightmare stories of projects taking years to get approved continue because it isn’t the purview of the courts to change the processes.
I guess we will see how it plays out. The Walmart situation is very different. That’s a local government determining that adding a Walmart to a neighborhood is not in the best interest of the constituents that they represent. There‘s no way to argue that with RCID projects.

My opinion is Disney plans to continue business as usual and if the district board attempts to do something to create a burdensome process without a valid reason they will go to court. They may win, they may lose, but either way it won’t make headlines. Just like it doesn’t make headlines when any business, including WDW, sues the local government over property tax assessments. It’s a small local story and people move on.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
There‘s no way to argue that with RCID projects.
The easy argument will be that something should be a Disney project not an RCID one.

For instance, the World Drive project expansion announced a few posts ago. The new board could take the position that Disney and not the local government should pay for that work. That they do no want to use RCID bonds to pay for the cost.

From the outside, after 20 years, who paid doesn't really matter. If RCID pays and uses bonds then taxes to pay those back, that will largely (almost entirely?) be Disney who paid the cost. Just like if Disney pays the cost directly.

However, in the short term, it makes a big difference. Disney can pay from current revenue or borrow, but not as a municipal bond. If they borrow directly, they'll pay a higher rate. It will impact short term yearly costs much more if Disney pays directly.

When we looked at the maps, World Drive has parts that are RCID, parts Disney. A new board that does not represent Disney but is appointed with the goal of "not letting Disney have special treatment" could easily take the position that World Drive only serves Disney property and any improvement beyond some base level should be paid by Disney and not RCID.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The easy argument will be that something should be a Disney project not an RCID one.

For instance, the World Drive project expansion announced a few posts ago. The new board could take the position that Disney and not the local government should pay for that work. That they do no want to use RCID bonds to pay for the cost.

From the outside, after 20 years, who paid doesn't really matter. If RCID pays and uses bonds then taxes to pay those back, that will largely (almost entirely?) be Disney who paid the cost. Just like if Disney pays the cost directly.

However, in the short term, it makes a big difference. Disney can pay from current revenue or borrow, but not as a municipal bond. If they borrow directly, they'll pay a higher rate. It will impact short term yearly costs much more if Disney pays directly.

When we looked at the maps, World Drive has parts that are RCID, parts Disney. A new board that does not represent Disney but is appointed with the goal of "not letting Disney have special treatment" could easily take the position that World Drive only serves Disney property and any improvement beyond some base level should be paid by Disney and not RCID.
I know rates have gone up more recently but TWDC corporate debt is under 4% on average which is in the ballpark of the RCID debt. It may also cost more for RCID to issue debt after this goat rodeo. Risk = higher interest rate paid. Disney also has over 50X the debt as RCID so borrowing at the corporate level for projects may not really matter too much anyway.

I agree that if a project is rejected for some reason then the company could elect to do it anyway and pay out of pocket for certain things but probably not everything the district does. I still think where the board could make more waves is in selection of vendors used for projects. That is an area ripe for manipulation whether it’s done to profit in some way or done to exclude vendors that don’t bend the knee to the governor’s whims.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I lost track…are we still attempting to play this as not being a stunt?

I tell you what: I’m hard on Bob…but there is little political pop for the Tick Coming out of this…the package never exploded

Is xena: warrior Princess back in charge? 🤪
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
I lost track…are we still attempting to play this as not being a stunt?

I tell you what: I’m hard on Bob…but there is little political pop for the Tick Coming out of this…the package never exploded

Is xena: warrior Princess back in charge? 🤪
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Tom P.

Well-Known Member
None of those other districts were created for the purpose of causing harm.

Local jurisdictions often exercise broad powers and are given wide latitude when it comes to planning and development. They don’t need long, articulated arguments to stop projects. This is how a city can stop a Walmart for not “fitting the character of the neighborhood” which isn’t exactly a well established legal principle. The nightmare stories of projects taking years to get approved continue because it isn’t the purview of the courts to change the processes.
Are you suggesting that RCID was created to cause harm? Or are you saying that the proposed replacement district is being created to cause harm? In either case, I don't think that's true.

In the case of RCID, you can argue that it provided Disney with benefits that it shouldn't have and perhaps led to some negative consequences for Florida taxpayers. That's arguable, though, and even if true, the district was created to help Disney but not specifically to harm anyone.

In the case of the replacement district, as much as I know DeSantis is a favorite boogeyman around here, I in no way believe that he actually wants to harm Disney. Yes, he wants to make a statement about Disney positions he disagrees with and, yes, he wants to look like he's being a tough guy. But he is not stupid. He knows how important Walt Disney World is to Florida's economy and its citizens. And he knows that if he actually causes harm to Florida's tourism industry, it's political suicide. He wants to saber rattle, yes. But he also wants WDW to continue to flourish.
 

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