News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

flynnibus

Premium Member
Maybe, just maybe, under the new district, once going through the hassle getting the permit, they will make a point to finish a project just to not have to go through the permit process again.

The tail don't wag the dog.

Permits like these are formalities and administrative overhead once the actual criteria stuff is done. It's not like the permits are some fleeting window of opportunity to get something. They are just administrative overhead. The 5% isn't going to force the 95% to change.
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
What Nelson peltz is doing is fine, whether I agree with it or not. But the state has no legal standing to do what they are doing. From the start they've made this about punishing them for their free speech. No one should ever like the idea of that happening.
As someone who has worked for a company that has been.... Peltzed, he isn't all that, and in fact generally can be a waste of perfectly good oxygen.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
No other theme park companies have this rare advantage given to them. You dont need ownership or controll over your own local government to operate a theme park business.

What about Universal's rare advantage in having Disney pay for part of their infrastructure?

You see, both Disney and Uni pay county taxes, but only one of them receives infrastructure services from the county... that would be Uni.

Disney pays for its own infrastructure thru the RCID. And it does so on top of paying county taxes (without receiving county infrastructure services).

Disney pays twice. By a lot.

So yes, there is an advantage that Disney gets... by paying for it.

The taxpayers of the counties aren't paying for Disney's infrastructure. But they are paying for Uni's infrastructure.

So, the advantage Disney has is that it can direct the agency (indirectly... but really directly) providing infrastructure. But Disney has to pay for it.

You know who else gets that deal? Universal.

In the new roads being built to support Epic Universe, Universal is paying for part of the project while the county (all its taxpayers and Disney) are paying for the other part of this project. In this way, Universal is getting to do what Disney does, namely, to direct the infrastructure it wants... by paying for it.
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
Getting back to this issue: There are basically 2 ways for Disney to go.
1. Sue in Federal court for violation of first amendment rights. If Disney wins, what would the remedy be, reversing the new Reedy Creek government structure? Would the Federal court rule in such a way, that a State has to reverse how it chooses to govern within its boundries. I am not an attorney or constitution expert so someone else will need to state their opinion if this is possible.
2. Sue in State court that the new Reedy Board violates the State constitution. Is their not enough vague language in what has been posted in this forum to give the court enough leeway to say nope, perfectly legal? Again, I will let those with more legal knowledge than me give an opinion on this.
Of course there is a third course of action, just accept and learn to work with new structure.
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
Getting back to this issue: There are basically 2 ways for Disney to go.
1. Sue in Federal court for violation of first amendment rights. If Disney wins, what would the remedy be, reversing the new Reedy Creek government structure? Would the Federal court rule in such a way, that a State has to reverse how it chooses to govern within its boundries. I am not an attorney or constitution expert so someone else will need to state their opinion if this is possible.
2. Sue in State court that the new Reedy Board violates the State constitution. Is their not enough vague language in what has been posted in this forum to give the court enough leeway to say nope, perfectly legal? Again, I will let those with more legal knowledge than me give an opinion on this.
Of course there is a third course of action, just accept and learn to work with new structure.

I believe the basis for the suit would be that the actions were in violation of the 1st amendment, not necessarily the makeup of the board.

The makeup of the board would come into play as Disney would have to show why this is negative for them, but IMO that would be pretty easy to do.

They also have the tape.... All they have to do it seems is roll in the tv strapped to the rolling cart, press play, and rest their case.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I'll give you that, but I think you and I can both agree there's a difference between Lennar building a development and selling the homes off to many individual homebuyers, profiting once, and Disney building an entertainment complex 50+ years ago and continuing to profit off it ever since.

Not to mention the size, influence and value of the respective companies.
WDW is very, very profitable for TWDC and we all know that better than most ;) That being said, Disney doesn’t make “super profits” from all of us from WDW because it has some unfair advantage over the competition by having RCID. RCID performs some very mundane tasks like sewer and water treatment, trash collection, electric supply and first responders. None of those areas is a key driver of profit and any cost savings would be a rounding error in Disney’s overall financials. I only point this out because it seems like there’s a narrative out there that somehow Disney is profiting greatly from RCID at the expensive of the government or other citizens and that’s really not true.
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
I believe the basis for the suit would be that the actions were in violation of the 1st amendment, not necessarily the makeup of the board.

The makeup of the board would come into play as Disney would have to show why this is negative for them, but IMO that would be pretty easy to do.

They also have the tape.... All they have to do it seems is roll in the tv strapped to the rolling cart, press play, and rest their case.
Again what is the remedy? Violation of first amendment is a Federal violation. So you are stating the Federal court would than tell the State of Florida it must change the make up of the Reedy District board? Not saying there is not a case regarding violating first amendments rights, but that does not mean the Federal courts are going to tell the State of Florida it cannot change the board members. Is there an attorney in the room who has a legal opinion on this.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
But surely Disney would not have kept RCID around for 50+ years, or lobby for its creation back in the 60s, if it did not provide a net benefit. Sure, there may be some trade offs, but I think we can all agree that Disney benefits from RCID's existence more than it loses from it.
The major benefit is they maintain control over the quality of services vs what they would get if they relied on the local government for the same services (like Universal or their other competitors). For example Disney controls RCID EMTs and fire services. They have chosen not to charge a guest for an ambulance ride to the hospital and they will also give them a free ride back to WDW. If Orange county was in charge they wouldn’t have that option. Same goes for roads. If there’s a pot hole they get it fixed immediately. If Disney decides they want a new turning lane it’s built. No waiting around. The only financial benefit Disney gets from RCID is they can finance certain projects with municipal bonds like the parking garages. Disney has plenty of cash these days and can borrow at a much lower rate than 50 years ago so not a huge benefit but it was in the past, say the 1980s when they built EPCOT.
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
Again what is the remedy? Violation of first amendment is a Federal violation. So you are stating the Federal court would than tell the State of Florida it must change the make up of the Reedy District board? Not saying there is not a case regarding violating first amendments rights, but that does not mean the Federal courts are going to tell the State of Florida it cannot change the board members. Is there an attorney in the room who has a legal opinion on this.

They will force Ron to do community service as Pooh. One day a week until his 500 hours are up.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Again what is the remedy? Violation of first amendment is a Federal violation. So you are stating the Federal court would than tell the State of Florida it must change the make up of the Reedy District board? Not saying there is not a case regarding violating first amendments rights, but that does not mean the Federal courts are going to tell the State of Florida it cannot change the board members. Is there an attorney in the room who has a legal opinion on this.
Federal courts tell states they can’t do things all the time. Florida is currently enjoined from enforcing the Stop WOKE Act by a federal court.

The Florida Constitution also protects speech. It also has clauses related to taxing authority and local control.
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
WDW is very, very profitable for TWDC and we all know that better than most ;) That being said, Disney doesn’t make “super profits” from all of us from WDW because it has some unfair advantage over the competition by having RCID. RCID performs some very mundane tasks like sewer and water treatment, trash collection, electric supply and first responders. None of those areas is a key driver of profit and any cost savings would be a rounding error in Disney’s overall financials. I only point this out because it seems like there’s a narrative out there that somehow Disney is profiting greatly from RCID at the expensive of the government or other citizens and that’s really not true.
As an aside, Disneyland operates in a very regulated state, California. It sits in Orange County whose board has recently has been very confrontational. Yet, Disney has had little problems getting things passed for the improvement of Disneyland in recent years. I am not so sure that the change in the RCID will present this big problem for the future management of WDW.
 

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
As an aside, Disneyland operates in a very regulated state, California. It sits in Orange County whose board has recently has been very confrontational. Yet, Disney has had little problems getting things passed for the improvement of Disneyland in recent years. I am not so sure that the change in the RCID will present this big problem for the future management of WDW.
Orange County doesn't handle planning, the City of Anaheim does.

Disney has had immense issues getting planning amendments through the City Council. However, the existing Anaheim Resort specific plan gives Disney entitlements to build on their land.

The problem is those entitlements are stuck in the Eisner era and they need to be updated, which is the proposal behind DisneylandForward. I'm not confident that it will pass due to the latest corruption scandal that unfortunately involves Disney. It seems destined for the same fate as the eastern gateway.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
As an aside, Disneyland operates in a very regulated state, California. It sits in Orange County whose board has recently has been very confrontational. Yet, Disney has had little problems getting things passed for the improvement of Disneyland in recent years. I am not so sure that the change in the RCID will present this big problem for the future management of WDW.
Surely you can name some if these projects that didn’t rely on previously granted planning approval.
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
Orange County doesn't handle planning, the City of Anaheim does.

Disney has had immense issues getting planning amendments through the City Council. However, the existing Anaheim Resort specific plan gives Disney entitlements to build on their land.

The problem is those entitlements are stuck in the Eisner era and they need to be updated, which is the proposal behind DisneylandForward. I'm not confident that it will pass due to the latest corruption scandal that unfortunately involves Disney. It seems destined for the same fate as the eastern gateway.
Are saying that there is not massive new developements going on right now in Disneyland? Somehow those projects did get approved. So Disney has learned how to work with local, county and state governments in California or am I missing something?
 

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
Are saying that there is not massive new developements going on right now in Disneyland? Somehow those projects did get approved. So Disney has learned how to work with local, county and state governments in California or am I missing something?
They are all based on entitlements granted in the early 90s as part of the resort expansion. Look up the Eastern Gateway project or the 4th Hotel project.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
As an aside, Disneyland operates in a very regulated state, California. It sits in Orange County whose board has recently has been very confrontational. Yet, Disney has had little problems getting things passed for the improvement of Disneyland in recent years. I am not so sure that the change in the RCID will present this big problem for the future management of WDW.
Who said it would? A replacement board cannot stop Disney from operating their parks as they see fit. The Orange County CA board is elected by the people not appointed by the Governor to punish Disney. Big difference.

A new board could get in the way of certain new infrastructure projects and they will likely make it more expensive to get things done. Once you hand board seats over to people as political favors they will pull stunts like hire their cousin to pave the roads at 3x the cost. There is also the justifiable fear that any time Disney does anything that bothers the Governor he will use his control to punish them again. Release a movie with content he doesn’t approve of, raise their taxes. Speak out for employee rights, deny approval for project.
 

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