News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[GoofGoof]

Haven’t been to Pittsburgh, have you?

Would you prefer I go Detroit?

 

[GoofGoof]

To be fair, Disney might not exist as an independent company if not for Florida.

During the lean years of the 1970s and early 1980s, the Florida theme parks kept Disney afloat. The money from WDW helped fight off Saul Steinberg's hostile takeover attempt in 1984. For example, in 1983 WDW represented 56% of company revenue and an even larger percentage of operating income.

Had he been successful, Mr. Steinberg might very well have broken up Disney and sold its assets.

Borrowing money for infrastructure projects through RCID at muni bond rates and keeping that debt off the company balance sheet was a much bigger deal back then too.

Crazy to think how different things would be had that happened. No Eisner might have meant no park expansion, no MGM Studios or later Animal Kingdom, no Disney decade so no explosion of hotel expansion. Would there even be a Universal park in FL? Or maybe there would be and maybe Universal would have bought Lucas Film and Star Wars would now be one of the Islands in IOA. Endless what-if possibilities.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Orange County sales tax is currently 6.5%. The proposed penny increase from 6.5% to 7.5%, mainly for transportation, failed on November's ballot, 58% to 42%.

And?

In Broward it passed. People are stupid. The end.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Would you prefer I go Detroit?

I’ll let this be my answer:

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be fair, Disney might not exist as an independent company if not for Florida.

During the lean years of the 1970s and early 1980s, the Florida theme parks kept Disney afloat. The money from WDW helped fight off Saul Steinberg's hostile takeover attempt in 1984. For example, in 1983 WDW represented 56% of company revenue and an even larger percentage of operating income.

Had he been successful, Mr. Steinberg might very well have broken up Disney and sold its assets.

That story is not actually accurate.

Disney had no financial problems at that time…they were just small. And therefore “ripe” in the corporate raider culture…

Steinberg never had any intention of buying and breaking…it was a straight up greenmail…which is what happened. And played right into the hands of Roy.

Disney’s biggest “loss” at the time, you ask?

There is an excellent book about it…among my top 5 Disney books ever

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Borrowing money for infrastructure projects through RCID at muni bond rates and keeping that debt off the company balance sheet was a much bigger deal back then too.

Crazy to think how different things would be had that happened. No Eisner might have meant no park expansion, no MGM Studios or later Animal Kingdom, no Disney decade so no explosion of hotel expansion. Would there even be a Universal park in FL? Or maybe there would be and maybe Universal would have bought Lucas Film and Star Wars would now be one of the Islands in IOA. Endless what-if possibilities.

Yes…maybe to all of this.

The place everyone round here goes to and lauds was built THEN…and the con artist in the cardigan has been chipping away at the foundation ever since.

Most of the emperor’s guard sees that now…and maybe I’ll stop pointing that out (eventually )

 

[ParentsOf4]

That story is not actually accurate.

Disney had no financial problems at that time…they were just small. And therefore “ripe” in the corporate raider culture…

Steinberg never had any intention of buying and breaking…it was a straight up greenmail…which is what happened. And played right into the hands of Roy.

Disney biggest “loss” at the time, you ask?

View attachment 690660

There is an excellent book about it…among my top 5 Disney books ever

View attachment 690661

Yes, that's one of the best Disney books. Disney War is arguably the best.

Quoting from the June 9, 1984 issue of the Washington Post:

A source close to the Steinberg group said it plans eventually to buy all of the famed movie studio and amusement park company, which began with Mickey Mouse and celebrated Donald Duck's 50th birthday yesterday. Such a takeover could cost as much as $3.1 billion.​

​

Included in the group's plans is an option to sell Disney's motion picture operations--including its gold mine of classic films--for $447.5 million to one member of the investor group, financier Kirk Kerkorian, the majority owner of MGM/UA Entertainment Co., another film industry giant.​

Those who lived through it at the time thought Mr. Steinberg was sincere. Those of us who lived though the time experienced corporate raiders chasing after greenmail as well as breaking up companies when their assets exceeded the stock price. (As was the case with Disney at the time, which made them ripe for a breakup.)

As noted in the Washington Post's review of Storming the Magic Kingdom:

Disney's stock was languishing at less than $60 a share in November 1983. At that stock price, a raider could acquire the entire company for a little over $2 billion. But the pieces of the Disney empire were worth far more than that if sold separately. The Disney theme parks alone could bring $2 billion, experts estimated. The Disney film library of 25 animated classics -- Bambi, Pinocchio, Snow White and the rest -- plus hundreds of live-action films, cartoons and television programs were worth anywhere from $250 million to $1 billion. And that still left the extensive Disney real estate holdings. Disney was a bargain.​

​

...​

Steinberg announced he would attempt a hostile takeover of Walt Disney Productions. If successful, he planned to keep Disneyland and Walt Disney World and sell the rest to investors.​

As far as Disney's biggest money loser, Entertainment & Recreation (which later became Parks & Resorts) saw their revenue jump by 42.1% in fiscal year 1983 (Epcot's first year of operation). Entertainment & Recreation's operating income increased by an even larger 48.4%.

The biggest money loser in 1983? Filmed Entertainment lost $33.385 million at a time when the parks made $196.878 million.

For more than a dozen years, Disney mostly was a theme park company.

 

[maxairmike]

And?

In Broward it passed. People are stupid. The end.

I voted for the penny sales tax here in Orange, because I recognize that getting to a state of viable public transit is critical to making this ever sprawling suburban hellscape livable as people continue to move here. That has to go hand in hand with other changes (upping density, zoning reform, TOD, etc), but it's an integral part of the larger picture. Call me stupid if you want, but it's better than doing nothing.

Going back to the cities designating their powers to RCID...I don't recall if there was a lot of discussion on if the cities have power or standing to argue against the dissolution of the District, as it essentially dissolves their "county" that provided unified service for/at the designation of the cities. It would certainly be interesting (and entertaining) to see the response if there is a reasonable way to shift most all of the District's functions and benefits to Disney (and the other owners) to the cities in a relatively quick manner, essentially negating the effect of the dissolution of the District, as far as the operational side is concerned. This of course ignores the issue of the bonds and any theoretical framework for a replacement the State devises, but DeSantis is clearly more concerned with the optics of the operational side of things IMO. I also have no confidence the State pauses the dissolution and comes up with something even resembling a competent enough replacement framework in time that passes legal muster enough to be instituted.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Orange County sales tax is currently 6.5%. The proposed penny increase from 6.5% to 7.5%, mainly for transportation, failed on November's ballot, 58% to 42%.

I voted for the penny sales tax here in Orange, because I recognize that getting to a state of viable public transit is critical to making this ever sprawling suburban hellscape livable as people continue to move here.

 

[LAKid53]

And?

In Broward it passed. People are stupid. The end.

The point was people voting to raise taxes on themselves.

The argument will be: if you don’t vote for this, property taxes will double and services will be cut.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, that's one of the best Disney books. Disney War is arguably the best.

Quoting from the June 9, 1984 issue of the Washington Post:

A source close to the Steinberg group said it plans eventually to buy all of the famed movie studio and amusement park company, which began with Mickey Mouse and celebrated Donald Duck's 50th birthday yesterday. Such a takeover could cost as much as $3.1 billion.​

​

Included in the group's plans is an option to sell Disney's motion picture operations--including its gold mine of classic films--for $447.5 million to one member of the investor group, financier Kirk Kerkorian, the majority owner of MGM/UA Entertainment Co., another film industry giant.​

Those who lived through it at the time thought Mr. Steinberg was sincere. Those of us who lived though the time experienced corporate raiders chasing after greenmail as well as breaking up companies when their assets exceeded the stock price. (As was the case with Disney at the time, which made them ripe for a breakup.)

As noted in the Washington Post's review of Storming the Magic Kingdom:

Disney's stock was languishing at less than $60 a share in November 1983. At that stock price, a raider could acquire the entire company for a little over $2 billion. But the pieces of the Disney empire were worth far more than that if sold separately. The Disney theme parks alone could bring $2 billion, experts estimated. The Disney film library of 25 animated classics -- Bambi, Pinocchio, Snow White and the rest -- plus hundreds of live-action films, cartoons and television programs were worth anywhere from $250 million to $1 billion. And that still left the extensive Disney real estate holdings. Disney was a bargain.​

​

...​

Steinberg announced he would attempt a hostile takeover of Walt Disney Productions. If successful, he planned to keep Disneyland and Walt Disney World and sell the rest to investors.​

As far as Disney's biggest money loser, Entertainment & Recreation (which later became Parks & Resorts) saw their revenue jump by 42.1% in fiscal year 1983 (Epcot's first year of operation). Entertainment & Recreation's operating income increased by an even larger 48.4%.

The biggest money loser in 1983? Filmed Entertainment lost $33.385 million at a time when the parks made $196.878 million.

For more than a dozen years, the theme parks kept the lights on at Disney.

But if you dig a little deeper into those numbers at that time…the reason they posted those “losses” was it was a small pie and a couple of trons or black cauldrons with a high budget for the day was crushing…

The overall stability of Disney was pretty sound - as quoted repeatedly in the book by Ray Watson (de facto ceo)…

And they had some profit generators coming…their tv production was remapping up, Disney channel; etc.

Feature Animation was in a bad spot - no doubt.

They had capital and were looking to buy. I thing American greetings? Which was a much bigger deal then than it would have been since. Wall Street wanted them to be more aggressive at that time.

 

[RGC]

Did the residents in the RCID get to vote on the dissolution?

 

[peter11435]

Did the residents in the RCID get to vote on the dissolution?

Nope

 

[lazyboy97o]

Then I am worried that DeSantis will get rid of RCID emergency services, creating a disaster for Disney World.

Walt Disney World would not be without emergency services even if the District is dissolved.

 

[mikejs78]

Walt Disney World would not be without emergency services even if the District is dissolved.

They wouldn't be, but then it's a question as to whether those services would fall to the counties or the two municipalities. Frankly the fact that there are two municipalities involved complicates DeSantis' plan even further I think. Are there examples of state controlled districts that include municipalities in FL?

 

[BobbyZ]

In an apparent stand off with The Walt Disney Company, some Florida legislators are meeting to discuss the possibility of removing the Reedy Creek Improvement District and stripping Disney of its semi self government status. This is as Disney says they are working to have a new law struck down passed by the Governor this week.

The 1967 act allowed Disney to create the Reedy Creek Improvement District, the self-described purpose being “to support and administer certain aspects of the economic development and tourism within District boundaries.” The creation of the district means Walt Disney World and other landowners pay for local essential services like water, electricity, fire protection, and emergency medical services instead of local taxpayers.

I'm not sure exactly how it would all work, but how would Disney's changed status be any different than the way Universal or Sea World is currently managed? Any insight would be helpful.

 

[mikejs78]

I'm not sure exactly how it would all work, but how would Disney's changed status be any different than the way Universal or Sea World is currently managed? Any insight would be helpful.

For one thing, Universal and Sea world get the states/counties to pay for roads/infrastructure/etc. But in doing so they have to go through the buerocracy of getting the counties to manage projects.

Disney pays for all of its own infrastructure within the confines of Reedy Creek, but they get to do it on their timetable. So if the district were dissolved, it will end up passing more costs to the state and counties and make it harder for Disney to do infrastructure projects.

If the DeSantis proposal goes through with a takeover of the district, it will be very different than Universal/Sea World in that a great many things will be controlled by the state, whereas Universal and Sea World don't have those restrictions.

 

[lazyboy97o]

They wouldn't be, but then it's a question as to whether those services would fall to the counties or the two municipalities. Frankly the fact that there are two municipalities involved complicates DeSantis' plan even further I think. Are there examples of state controlled districts that include municipalities in FL?

The problem is that because of the timeline for how Reedy Creek Improvement District was created, starting with the Reedy Creek Drainage District that existed prior to Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista. The dissolution provision that is referenced by the legislation doesn’t consider the way RCID was created as a district that was created and then enhanced by the addition of municipalities so it states that things go back to the pre-existing entities. I would assume that the assets of Reedy Creek Emergency Services would go to the counties since they are the pre-existing entities but that responsibility would still fall to the two now asset-less cities. It could bring up another argument that I don’t think that has been previously discussed, that dissolution or a new district would be the state taking the cities’ property without compensation or input.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm not sure exactly how it would all work, but how would Disney's changed status be any different than the way Universal or Sea World is currently managed? Any insight would be helpful.

It might be easier to answer what you think Disney meaningfully gets to do differently.

 

[MisterPenguin]

This is a Disney run site so expect little from this site, nuff said!

It's not. And good-bye.