News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[GoofGoof]

10 years ago the FL Governor was Rick Scott who was pro business . On the Welcome to Florida sign at the GA/FL line on I-95 his signature was below the sign and the sign also said Open For Business. When the first Wawa opened in FL near Orlando Sea World, during his term, Rick Scott was there for the grand opening while tourists and some Northerners living in FL rejoiced .

I love me a Wawa shorty so I can see the desire to celebrate . My FIL was very happy when they opened near him too. He got hooked on Wawa coffee coming up here to visit us in PA.

Wawa tangent aside, maybe 10 years was a bad example since Rick Scott is still a sitting Senator and so relevant to FL citizens. Go back a little further to Jeb Bush. Another guy who served as FL Governor and wanted to be President. He’s largely irrelevant today but the FL economy rolls on. My point is Governors come and go but the long term economy needs to be managed and at least maintained if not grown. A political stunt that benefits one man and his personal agenda but has negative economic repercussions is bad for the state.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Yeah but which side ends up paying to swap out all the logos?

If Disney gets their way, maybe they will name the new district "Lake Buena Vista: The Improvement Experience!"

Yes with a photo pass option as you drive your car under the signs kinda like a red light camera

 

[mikejs78]

In the latest episode of The Disney Dish, @lentesta brings up the interesting argument that the law dissolving districts that predate the current constitution doesn’t even apply to the Reedy Creek Improvement District. The law says it dissolves districts that have not been “reestablished, re-ratified, or otherwise
reconstituted” and the argument he presents is that the supreme court ruling along with multiple references to the District in subsequent legislation and state agency work would all constitute “re-ratification” as the state repeatedly acknowledged the District’s legal existence.

That would be hilarious if this law didn't end up even applying to Reedy Creek.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

That would be hilarious if this law didn't end up even applying to Reedy Creek.

I'd have to imagine that even the Republican judges would apply the law accurately if it were so grossly obvious.

 

[JohnD]

In the latest episode of The Disney Dish, @lentesta brings up the interesting argument that the law dissolving districts that predate the current constitution doesn’t even apply to the Reedy Creek Improvement District. The law says it dissolves districts that have not been “reestablished, re-ratified, or otherwise
reconstituted” and the argument he presents is that the supreme court ruling along with multiple references to the District in subsequent legislation and state agency work would all constitute “re-ratification” as the state repeatedly acknowledged the District’s legal existence.

Interesting. The Constitutionality of the RCID was ruled upon by the FL Supreme Court on November 27, 1968. The 1968 FL Constitution was ratified by the electorate on November 5, 1968.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Also, Len makes another great point. The mere fact that the financial community/rating agencies have questions that are going unanswered (and may ultimately affect the State's credit rating) is proof that there is no plan. This is something no "plan" would've ever allowed for.

 

[GoofGoof]

That would be hilarious if this law didn't end up even applying to Reedy Creek.

Or maybe a really slick political move? If your intent was to appear to be “fighting a woke corporation” to solicit national donations but you ultimately didn’t want to actually hurt your state‘s largest employer and the catalyst for the #1 industry in your state this would be a genius plan. The headlines are written, the ink is dry. If it turns out the law is overturned on a technicality nobody gets their political donations back. Win/win for the politicians.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Interesting. The Constitutionality of the RCID was ruled upon by the FL Supreme Court on November 27, 1968. The 1968 FL Constitution was ratified by the electorate on November 5, 1968.

I’m still not certain these dates are all that meaningful. If you read the ruling it repeatedly references Article IX which is Education in the current constitution. It’s hard to tell how much the justices were considering the new constitution that was ratified during this process. Although I do think they would have said something if they thought the legislation would no longer count as the state is now arguing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Or maybe a really slick political move? If your intent was to appear to be “fighting a woke corporation” to solicit national donations but you ultimately didn’t want to actually hurt your state‘s largest employer and the catalyst for the #1 industry in your state this would be a genius plan. The headlines are written, the ink is dry. If it turns out the law is overturned on a technicality nobody gets their political donations back. Win/win for the politicians.

It’s not genius. Threatening the credit worthiness of your state and all of its subdivisions isn’t genius. Racking up unnecessary costs to be paid by taxpayers isn’t genius. We need to stop applauding selfish authoritarian acts as brilliant maneuvering; we need to stop calling for people to make concessions to aggressor who will only learn that such behavior is profitable.

 

[UNCgolf]

Is there really any case where Disney wins?

The governor establishes a district that gives him control over Disney - Disney loses, and may have to wind down Disney World when the governor wants to make changes to other Disney business units
RCID is dissolved and the debt goes to the counties- It's Disney's fault that your taxes are going up and you're more in debt while getting less from your taxes
RCID debt is taken by the state- we can't do these things because Disney gave us $1B in debt
Florida taxes Disney explicitly - illegal, but it has to be challenged in court first
Florida raids hotel taxes - also potentially illegal, and hurts tourism investment, which hurts Disney
Disney compromises on RCID changes with Florida- Disney speaking out against a Florida law now allows Florida to change RCID and contracts at will
Nothing happens to Disney World-That won't satisfy Florida/DeSantis's base. But Disney and RCID now have increased legal fees and a lack of certainty around what they can and cannot do or say, and higher prices on future bonds

It would be pretty difficult to make these cases. Of course some people would buy it, but I think the majority would understand that the Florida government was solely responsible for this, not Disney.

 

[UNCgolf]

In the latest episode of The Disney Dish, @lentesta brings up the interesting argument that the law dissolving districts that predate the current constitution doesn’t even apply to the Reedy Creek Improvement District. The law says it dissolves districts that have not been “reestablished, re-ratified, or otherwise
reconstituted” and the argument he presents is that the supreme court ruling along with multiple references to the District in subsequent legislation and state agency work would all constitute “re-ratification” as the state repeatedly acknowledged the District’s legal existence.

It is, at the very least, a legitimate legal argument that can be raised in court filings and litigated.

 

[JohnD]

I’m still not certain these dates are all that meaningful. If you read the ruling it repeatedly references Article IX which is Education in the current constitution. It’s hard to tell how much the justices were considering the new constitution that was ratified during this process. Although I do think they would have said something if they thought the legislation would no longer count as the state is now arguing.

Also interesting. If there is a lawsuit, Disney has one argument. The Governor's Office ("State") has a counter-argument.

 

[GoofGoof]

It’s not genius. Threatening the credit worthiness of your state and all of its subdivisions isn’t genius. Racking up unnecessary costs to be paid by taxpayers isn’t genius. We need to stop applauding selfish authoritarian acts as brilliant maneuvering; we need to stop calling for people to make concessions to aggressor who will only learn that such behavior is profitable.

I actually don’t believe they really thought this through that far but who knows. I’m not saying this is good for the state, for the taxpayers, for society at large, but if the goal of this was to run a political stunt which juiced up the base and resulted in increased political donations I’d say it was pretty successful. Just because we don’t believe the ends justify the means (and we’re on the same side on that for sure) and we don’t think the benefit is worth the collateral damage done (we also agree on that) doesn’t mean the people sponsoring this feel the same way.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I actually don’t believe they really thought this through that far but who knows. I’m not saying this is good for the state, for the taxpayers, for society at large, but if the goal of this was to run a political stunt which juiced up the base and resulted in increased political donations I’d say it was pretty successful. Just because we don’t believe the ends justify the means (and we’re on the same side on that for sure) and we don’t think the benefit is worth the collateral damage done (we also agree on that) doesn’t mean the people sponsoring this feel the same way.

And that's one of the core issues with our political system. It encourages this kind of behavior.

 

[Goofyernmost]

In my opinion, this is not about defending LGBTQI rights.

Florida passed HB 1557.

Initially, TWDC wanted to stay out of it and focus on its business and customers.

Then TWDC was pressured into saying they were going to fight HB 1557 and use its resources to overturn HB 1557.

Then the governor of Florida got angry over this and targeted TWDC and in a matter of hours, wrote, voted, signed and passed a bill to dissolve RCID.

This all could have been part of a long term plan of the governor's path to the White House. Time will tell.

As a side effect, It appears LGBTQI folks and Disney got a win here.

The big losers here are the Florida taxpayers.

Could guests to WDW be negatively affected by the loss of RCID? Only time will tell.

What will be affected is the infrastructure. That primarily is why it was set up to begin with. If they take that away it seems like the responsibility for that would fall to whatever counties the infrastructure is sitting in. That would be highway construction and repair at the very least. Legally, I think that TWDC would have the right to protest if their rate is higher than other entities in those counties. It's already paying taxes on the value of the property. The new expense would now have to be divided up among all the tax payers of those counties and probably the state as well. The future should be interesting.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Nothing some ranked choice voting can't fix.

It would be interesting to see a state implement the open primary with ranked choice but my guess is the powers that be don't want to give up any control and would see that as a risk to their own plans.

The problem is all those heat dazed Floridians that aren't happy unless someone is getting whooped, no matter how much it may cost them. Justifiably or not.

 

[GoofGoof]

What will be affected is the infrastructure. That primarily is why it was set up to begin with. If they take that away it seems like the responsibility for that would fall to whatever counties the infrastructure is sitting in. That would be highway construction and repair at the very least. Legally, I think that TWDC would have the right to protest if their rate is higher than other entities in those counties. It's already paying taxes on the value of the property. The new expense would now have to be divided up among all the tax payers of those counties and probably the state as well. The future should be interesting.

This is correct. Orange County cannot charge Disney a different mil rate than other property owners and Disney already pays the same as everyone else. They also cannot just increase the assessment on the Disney property to make up the difference. There has to be justification and Disney just recently won a multi-year lawsuit with Orange County over assessed value on their property. It would be very difficult to pull off. This is why the Orange County tax collector was quoted as saying if nothing changes and RCID is dissolved next June the county would have a large increase in expenses which would require a 20-25% increase in property taxes on all residents. That cannot happen but they could push through a more moderate tax increase combined with slashing the budget for roads and other projects. A major portion of real estate taxes goes to schools but I cannot see how they could cut school budgets over this. That’s why I still think a compromise which keeps RCID is the most likely outcome.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Also interesting. If there is a lawsuit, Disney has one argument. The Governor's Office ("State") has a counter-argument.

The issue is that if the State’s argument is that the District is unconstitutional then there was no need for a special session and rushed legislation. They could have just gone straight to court. Most of what has been said has been more about things that are clearly not true.

 

[Disstevefan1]

What will be affected is the infrastructure. That primarily is why it was set up to begin with. If they take that away it seems like the responsibility for that would fall to whatever counties the infrastructure is sitting in. That would be highway construction and repair at the very least. Legally, I think that TWDC would have the right to protest if their rate is higher than other entities in those counties. It's already paying taxes on the value of the property. The new expense would now have to be divided up among all the tax payers of those counties and probably the state as well. The future should be interesting.

TWDC wins big here as they will be able to dump 1 to 2 billion dollars of debt on to the taxpayers.

 

[lazyboy97o]

TWDC wins big here as they will be able to dump 1 to 2 billion dollars of debt on to the taxpayers.

Hurting the local economy isn’t a win for Disney.