News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[mikejs78]

I didn't audit - but I think the discrepancy is simply due to non-votes. Otherwise, it's straight party line.

Mostly non-votes but I believe there were one or two Republicans who voted against the bill.

My guess... being able to influence/control who the board are. All decisions come from the top down.. so maybe Disney gives up seats, but gives them up in a way they still feel they can have a say in who fills them.

Ultimately Disney would negotiate I think to make themselves look good in the end... even if they do so in a way to benefit themselves in the details. Disney doesn't benefit from scorched earth strategy... but they are in a good position for a game of chicken.

I doubt Disney will give up control. Why would they? They hold all the cards at this point. They don't have to go scorched earth in order to get what they want, they're just aren't that many alternatives for the governor

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My guess... being able to influence/control who the board are. All decisions come from the top down.. so maybe Disney gives up seats, but gives them up in a way they still feel they can have a say in who fills them.

Ultimately Disney would negotiate I think to make themselves look good in the end... even if they do so in a way to benefit themselves in the details. Disney doesn't benefit from scorched earth strategy... but they are in a good position for a game of chicken.

Disney has zero reason to negotiate away a thing until this is arbitrated in court. I heard two legal scholars from opposite side of the isle (the Princeton/Chicago line in economics) say the EXACT same thing.

Why give when it’s not gonna be taken?

The shocking thing here is anyone believes that the current group of carpetbaggers in Tallahassee have any such clout over this foe? Is it like 115 down there?

 

[Brian]

Except he only won by 33,000 votes. Which is significantly less than the number of registered voters who did not vote in Orange County. He does not need orange and Osceola Counties to win. But if he angers enough people in those counties to vote against him he will lose the election.

I agree that he can't afford to alienate huge numbers of people in Orange/Osceola, but I also think that the new 100,000 GOP registered voter advantage, a net gain of over 350,000 since his 2018 election, will help offset some of that. During the 2020 and 2018 elections, Dems held the advantage.

 

[castlecake2.0]

My guess... being able to influence/control who the board are. All decisions come from the top down.. so maybe Disney gives up seats, but gives them up in a way they still feel they can have a say in who fills them.

Ultimately Disney would negotiate I think to make themselves look good in the end... even if they do so in a way to benefit themselves in the details. Disney doesn't benefit from scorched earth strategy... but they are in a good position for a game of chicken.

Will “Disney” be the one negotiating with the state though? Or will it be Reedy Creek (with lots of money coming from Disney for the battle)?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Except he only won by 33,000 votes. Which is significantly less than the number of registered voters who did not vote in Orange County. He does not need orange and Osceola Counties to win. But if he angers enough people in those counties to vote against him he will lose the election.

We will see.
Consider this. Maybe his sights are no longer on Governor.
He cared so much about properly educating the little children, that he sacrificed the Governorship to save the little children.
Next stop. The White House.

 

[flynnibus]

I doubt Disney will give up control. Why would they? They hold all the cards at this point. They don't have to go scorched earth in order to get what they want, they're just aren't that many alternatives for the governor

Sometimes giving when you don't have to is a play too.. Like I said, I think they are in a way stronger position in the game of chicken. They have big guns and they don't even have to start it... but I wouldn't count out a compromise so both sides can look good and move forward. I just don't think they NEED to... but they might.

 

[thomas998]

You are completely ignoring all of the stuff the state says it will not do until the bolded portion is done.

The part that is bolded is what is important because it is the qualifier.

 

[mikejs78]

Sometimes giving when you don't have to is a play too.. Like I said, I think they are in a way stronger position in the game of chicken. They have big guns and they don't even have to start it... but I wouldn't count out a compromise so both sides can look good and move forward. I just don't think they NEED to... but they might.

I think they may give up a few things to allow the governor to save face, even if that's something I personally wouldn't do. But I don't think they will give up autonomy or control over the district overall.

 

[GoofGoof]

Absolutely.

I hope others, particularly those who expressed extreme skepticism/outright dismissal of DeSantis' claims of having a plan due to the lack of evidence, do the same.

I have no doubt DeSantis has a plan. His plan is likely to gain as much politically from this stunt as possible, cash the checks and move on. He’s heading into the move on phase now.

As far as the fate of RCID I will judge his “plan” when I actually see one. Saying the taxpayers won’t pay more and that Disney will pay their fair share is not really a plan it’s just political nonsense and taken on its face actually makes no sense. So until we see an actual plan all we can do is speculate. So far the plans we’ve discussed in this thread are:

1. Leave RCID as is
2. Modify RCID but keep the taxing authority and assets in place so as not to violate the covenant with bondholders
3. Do nothing. Which means let the new bill stand and dissolve RCID and allow Orange and Osceola counties to absorb the assets and liabilities of RCID. This also means the counties providing the services formerly provided under RCID which the tax collector for OC estimates will result in a 25% tax increase for all taxpayers
4. Have the state assume the bond debt and then go after Disney’s state tax credits to pay for it. This doesn’t address the obvious bondholders issue but also would be devastating to the state economy for years into the future
5. Raid the hotel taxes paid to Orange and Oscelola counties to pay for the bonds. Not allowed under current law but would need an additional amendment to the statutes governing hotel taxes. Would open pandoras box and damage the top industry in the state
6. Make Disney take the bonds and pay them off themselves - not legal, not possible
7. Create an additional tax just on Disney that pays for the debt. I also don’t see how this is legal but was suggested as how the state could make Disney pay. Also fails to address the bondholders issue
8. Create a new special district that the Governor personally controls. Nobody actually suggested this for real but it’s a fun little side note to add

Due to a lack of an actual plan being presented it’s fun to speculate. My gut feeling is 1 or 2 happen. 3 would be an impossible pill to swallow politically but since the voters in those counties aren’t as important to the powers that be never say never. 4 is not going to happen for so many reasons. Even the Governor has said they don’t plan to go after Disney’s tax credits, but it’s been discussed so I added it to the list. 5-8 are really all pipe dreams that are illegal or impossible to execute but are brought up as ways to make the Governor‘s pledge come true.

Can anyone think of anything else to add? It‘s pointless speculation, but one of these things has to happen eventually.

 

[thomas998]

No one is calling the RCID a contract. The municipal bonds issued by RCID, however, ARE a contract.

As for your first point -- no, the new tax area would have to give the exact same government powers that RCID has now or it would violate the rights of the municipal bondholders. Their value is tied to RCID having certain rights and powers; it's not solely about taxation to service the debt.

The bondholder have no interest in the form of governance in the area. Their only interest is in receiving payment under the terms of the bond and that the payments retain their tax free status. That's it. You could transfer the liability of payments to anyone that was willing to accept them and it doesn't matter to the bondholder as long as they get what they are entitled to and they aren't entitle to a particular form of government only the payments and those payments' tax status.

 

[flynnibus]

Will “Disney” be the one negotiating with the state though? Or will it be Reedy Creek (with lots of money coming from Disney for the battle)?

If the cites about needing the voters in the district all hold up... Disney could freely be part of the negotiations as themselves. I think it depends on the conversation.. if it's about defending RCID as is.. no Disney. But if it's a topic of 'how can we move forward...' then the audience is Disney, not RCID.

 

[Brian]

Can anyone think of anything else to add? It‘s pointless speculation, but one of these things has to happen eventually.

Rep. Boolcrahp of NoMansLand, FL recently said he heard DeSantis is planning on storming Cinderella Castle in the early morning hours after the election with his army of alligator conscripts to declare himself king of the Magic Kingdom.

 

[thomas998]

The first sentence of your quote is the state's promise to bond holders not to change RCID's ability to fulfill the terms of the bond.

Can you explain how dissolving the RCID does not conflict with that sentence?

It is one long sentence and it ends with " ...until all such bonds together with interest thereon, and all costs and expenses in connection with any action or proceeding by or on behalf of such holders, are fully met and discharged. "
And fully met and discharged is what matter most of all because it simply means the state will insure that the bonds are paid out within the terms of the bonds which may or may not have a call right in them. Most likely they will have a call right which would mean they could all be paid off early. I've never seen a bond that didn't have a all right, but have never seen one issued by Reedy but would be shocked if they didn't include a call right.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Will “Disney” be the one negotiating with the state though? Or will it be Reedy Creek (with lots of money coming from Disney for the battle)?

Ha, in reality, RCID IS Disney no matter what the documentation says…

 

[mikejs78]

There's been some talk about moving pretty much all the control, assets, and bonds to Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake As cities as opposed to a special district. There are some issues with that, specifically around the amount of ad valorem taxes that a city can levy. But if they could figure out a way to make that work, it would give Disney full control while giving to Santa's his victory. I still think that's messy and as a bunch of constitutional issues associated with it.

 

[mikejs78]

It is one long sentence and it ends with " ...until all such bonds together with interest thereon, and all costs and expenses in connection with any action or proceeding by or on behalf of such holders, are fully met and discharged. "
And fully met and discharged is what matter most of all because it simply means the state will insure that the bonds are paid out within the terms of the bonds which may or may not have a call right in them. Most likely they will have a call right which would mean they could all be paid off early. I've never seen a bond that didn't have a all right, but have never seen one issued by Reedy but would be shocked if they didn't include a call right.

One of the bonds cannot be called before 2029.

 

[GoofGoof]

It is one long sentence and it ends with " ...until all such bonds together with interest thereon, and all costs and expenses in connection with any action or proceeding by or on behalf of such holders, are fully met and discharged. "
And fully met and discharged is what matter most of all because it simply means the state will insure that the bonds are paid out within the terms of the bonds which may or may not have a call right in them. Most likely they will have a call right which would mean they could all be paid off early. I've never seen a bond that didn't have a all right, but have never seen one issued by Reedy but would be shocked if they didn't include a call right.

some of the bonds have restrictions on early redemption so they’d have to wait until 2029 to dissolve the district under that plan.

 

[mikejs78]

The bondholder have no interest in the form of governance in the area. Their only interest is in receiving payment under the terms of the bond and that the payments retain their tax free status. That's it. You could transfer the liability of payments to anyone that was willing to accept them and it doesn't matter to the bondholder as long as they get what they are entitled to and they aren't entitle to a particular form of government only the payments and those payments' tax status.

That's absolutely not true. The bond holder has interest in The mechanisms that will be available to maintain the bond. Think of it like your mortgage. You could not sell your mortgage to somebody for a dollar, because your mortgage is backed by your house. I.e it's the interest in your house that guarantees the mortgage. It's a same with these bonds - it's certain powers and privileges that Reedy Creek has, and the property value that exists within Reedy Creek, that is guaranteeing the bonds to the bondholders. They invested in a bond that had a specific backing. If that backing goes away, then the bonds default.

 

[GoofGoof]

There's been some talk about moving pretty much all the control, assets, and bonds to Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake As cities as opposed to a special district. There are some issues with that, specifically around the amount of ad valorem taxes that a city can levy. But if they could figure out a way to make that work, it would give Disney full control while giving to Santa's his victory. I still think that's messy and as a bunch of constitutional issues associated with it.

Don’t bring Santa into this. He’s still resting at the North Pole getting ready for next Christmas

 

[mikejs78]

Don’t bring Santa into this. He’s still resting at the North Pole getting ready for next Christmas

Lol... Damn autocorrect.