News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[mmascari]

But now, here's Sen. Stewart, a Democrat, and nobody seems to take issue with her lack of evidence.

There is no evidence as of yet that DeSantis wants the RCID replacement to be comprised of his own appointees. Until there is, I think it would be appropriate to treat that claim with the same level of skepticism granted to the governor's claims.

I didn't actually check which party she was in. Being in a different party, and presumed against dissolving RCID, it does change the "test balloon" theory a little. Instead of her hoping it goes over well so it's the plan that comes out. She's probably hoping it goes poorly to head it off before it comes out.

Didn't really matter though. Unless we assume it's all just a completely fabricated lie, it's some presumed details in a vacuum.

We've gone from John says he has a girlfriend in Canada to Sally says she exists (maybe not in Canada), but she's mean. Nobody's actually seen her yet.

 

[flynnibus]

We've gone from John says he has a girlfriend in Canada to Sally says she exists (maybe not in Canada), but she's mean. Nobody's actually seen her yet.

please.. I demand royalties on all 'girlfriend from canada' references in this thread First to the post an all

 

[Brian]

I'm sorry it's difficult to tell why people might react differently to a statement promising FUTURES (and one that is conveniently LATE vs before acting) vs a simple retelling of information.

Yet there is no skepticism from anyone about Sen. Stewart's claims, which to a reasonable person sound like they're straight out of a Charlie Crist campaign manager's fever dream?

All I'm asking is that Sen. Stewart be afforded the same benefit of the doubt that DeSantis was afforded, which was next to none.

 

[mmascari]

please.. I demand royalties on all 'girlfriend from canada' references in this thread First to the post an all

I shall give you 15% of all my profits related to that specific post.

 

[mikejs78]

DeSantis repeatedly said that he was going to work to ensure that the Orange/Osceola county taxpayers were not saddled with RCID's debt. My mere posting of that statement led to several complaints that there were no specifics (there weren't) and there was no evidence to backup that claim.

But now, here's Sen. Stewart, a Democrat, and nobody seems to take issue with her lack of evidenc

Not really the same thing. In DeSantis' case, he did not provide any *specifics*. "I have a plan" isn't anything.

In the case of Sen Stewart, she is presenting specifics, although there is question on how accurate it is.

Each one should be taken on its merit. With DeSantis, there was nothing there. At all. With Stewart, there is something there (some level of detail) but it's hearsay. So it's more than what DeSantis has presented so far, and is worth discussion because there's something to discuss, with the caveat that it can't be verified.

 

[itsy bitsy spider]

Example

Politics

 

[flynnibus]

Yet there is no skepticism from anyone about Sen. Stewart's claims, which to a reasonable person sound like they're straight out of a Charlie Crist campaign manager's fever dream?

All I'm asking is that Sen. Stewart be afforded the same benefit of the doubt that DeSantis was afforded, which was next to none.

"I have a girlfriend, but she lives in canada"

vs

"Bob is dating Jane"

This is the difference in these statements... ponder how they got different responses.

 

[Brian]

Not really the same thing. In DeSantis' case, he did not provide any *specifics*. "I have a plan" isn't anything.

In the case of Sen Stewart, she is presenting specifics, although there is question on how accurate it is.

Each one should be taken on its merit. With DeSantis, there was nothing there. At all. With Stewart, there is something there (some level of detail) but it's hearsay. So it's more than what DeSantis has presented so far, and is worth discussion because there's something to discuss, with the caveat that it can't be verified.

DeSantis said he was going to work to establish a new special district. That was the plan. It wasn't just "I have a plan." Sure, it lacked the details it should have had, but there wasn't no plan.

Now Stewart comes out with some outrageous claim that DeSantis is trying to, as another member cleverly put it, establish his own RCID fiefdom. For all the detail that was lacking in DeSantis' claim, Stewart achieves the same level of ridicule by presenting such a fanciful claim without any evidence.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I vote the debt be transferred to the Boogeyman

…well…that little certainly does have it coming

 

[Disstevefan1]

You really don't know what you're talking about. The bond contracts (guaranteed by the state legislature) state that the state can't remove the powers that the district has. So they couldn't remove Reedy Creek's government because the guaruntee of that government is in the bond contracts.



Nope. The bold only says that Reedy Creek can't be abolished until the debts are paid in full. So, if the state of FL decided to pay the bonds off right now in a lump sum, they might be able to get out of this (although early repayment is forbidden in one of the bonds, so that may be an issue).

The bond contracts (guaranteed by the state legislature). It's too bad the state won't pay the bonds and the debt will be dumped on Orange and Osceola counties....

 

[mikejs78]

Reedy Creek: Central Florida Lawmakers Say DeSantis is Exploring Creating, Controlling New "Lake Buena Vista District"

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

I just can't get over these statements...

"According to Sen. Linda Stewart, DeSantis is planning on creating a new district called the Lake Buena Vista District to replace the Reedy Creek Improvement District. The new general government district would be controlled by DeSantis with appointments made by DeSantis"

One interesting thing about this is a provision in the FL Constitution that I just noticed -

Ad valorem taxes, exclusive of taxes levied for the payment of bonds and taxes levied for periods not longer than two years when authorized by vote of the electors who are the owners of freeholds therein not wholly exempt from taxation, shall not be levied in excess of the following millages upon the assessed value of real estate and tangible personal property: for all county purposes, ten mills; for all municipal purposes, ten mills; for all school purposes, ten mills; for water management purposes for the northwest portion of the state lying west of the line between ranges two and three east, 0.05 mill; for water management purposes for the remaining portions of the state, 1.0 mill; and for all other special districts a millage authorized by law approved by vote of the electors who are owners of freeholds therein not wholly exempt from taxation. A county furnishing municipal services may, to the extent authorized by law, levy additional taxes within the limits fixed for municipal purposes.[QUOTE/

So in other words, if Reedy Creek is abolished and a new Ron DeSantis controlled district set up, they can't tax anyone unless it's approved by a vote of landowners within the district (i.e. Disney).

 

[mikejs78]

DeSantis said he was going to work to establish a new special district. That was the plan. It wasn't just "I have a plan." Sure, it lacked the details it should have had, but there wasn't no plan.

Um, where did DeSantis say that? I didn't think he said that at all (though I may have missed it). It's been inferred, but I didn't think he stated that.

 

[mmascari]

Agreed but I’d take it a step further. I actually think a 1st amendment lawsuit would play right into the hands of a Governor who wants to be President. It would be a complete goat rodeo and eventually probably go all the way to the Supreme Court. DeSantis gets to play the part of the guy who is taking down woke corporations. He throws in a few additional buzz words in addition to woke and the donations come flooding in. If he wins he can celebrate it. If he loses he can rail about the courts being biased. Either way he gets more donations. Win/win. I agree that the fate of RCID is largely irrelevant.

What happens if he burns the state to the ground in the process?

It's an important electoral college state. Destroying it's ability to function may work with the die hard base, and with those out of state. But, that's a lot of spite voting against then.

We presume Disney as an international mega corporation would prefer a business friendly Republican to a more worker rights Democrat. But, they've still got employees that they need to keep at least marginally happy. If doing that makes them "woke" and "woke companies need not apply in FL" and the Republican party becomes distinctly not business friendly to them, that could certainly change the thought process.

It's entirely possible that Disney thinks it can weather the destruction of FL and then come out better as part of the rebuilding later. They may think they can rebuild the state in their favor. The collateral damage to everyone living in FL is going to be immense if they go down this route.

The governor seems to be fine with that plan.

 

[Brian]

Um, where did DeSantis say that? I didn't think he said that at all (though I may have missed it). It's been inferred, but I didn't think he stated that.

Governor Ron DeSantis Signs Legislation to Create Lawful Congressional Districts and Remove Special Interest Carveouts

www.flgov.com

In the near future, we will propose additional legislation to authorize additional special districts in a manner that ensures transparency and an even playing field under the law.

If we are to take Sen. Stewart's claims as legitimate, DeSantis was right about this. Though I don't think her claims are legitimate and I don't think he had/has any specific plan.

 

[mikejs78]

Governor Ron DeSantis Signs Legislation to Create Lawful Congressional Districts and Remove Special Interest Carveouts

www.flgov.com

If we are to take Sen. Stewart's claims as legitimate, DeSantis was right about this. Though I don't think her claims are legitimate and I don't think he had/has any specific plan.

Fair. In any case I find what Sen. Stewart says to be of interest but I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Does that satisfy you?

 

[mikejs78]

Oh, and for everyone who says that the Legislature can just create new taxes on Disney (or on anyone), they would need a supermajority to do so:

SECTION 19. Supermajority vote required to impose, authorize, or raise state taxes or fees.—
(a) SUPERMAJORITY VOTE REQUIRED TO IMPOSE OR AUTHORIZE NEW STATE TAX OR FEE. No new state tax or fee may be imposed or authorized by the legislature except through legislation approved by two-thirds of the membership of each house of the legislature and presented to the Governor for approval pursuant to Article III, Section 8.
(b) SUPERMAJORITY VOTE REQUIRED TO RAISE STATE TAXES OR FEES. No state tax or fee may be raised by the legislature except through legislation approved by two-thirds of the membership of each house of the legislature and presented to the Governor for approval pursuant to Article III, Section 8.

And transferring of powers to another government entity also would require a vote by Disney:

SECTION 4. Transfer of powers.—By law or by resolution of the governing bodies of each of the governments affected, any function or power of a county, municipality or special district may be transferred to or contracted to be performed by another county, municipality or special district, after approval by vote of the electors of the transferor and approval by vote of the electors of the transferee, or as otherwise provided by law.

Also:

SECTION 10. Prohibited laws.—No bill of attainder, ex post facto law or law impairing the obligation of contracts shall be passed.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

They're not the same. DeSantis said "I'm going to do something, I'll let you know." which is useless to know what it is, even if you take it at face value. While Stewart said "Here's the plan he's got" and then laid out some details. If you take them both at face value, the first was useless and the second lays out some actual plans.

Of course, it's possible that Stewart is floating a test of a plan, since it's not her plan. If it's received poorly, it could all be changed. Since it's not the plan, just a once removed that it's coming. If it's received well, it could become the plan even if it's not already the plan today.

At face value, the governor taking over a local government entity, replacing all the elected officials with governor appointed ones, and continuing to tax people the same way because they didn't' like what you said is some real creepy stuff. Even if you ignore that reason, there's no other reason given and it's just as creepy then.

Until it's in a bill (or at least close to it), it's tough to really see any of this for reality. Politicians float ideas all the time as "potential" just to gauge public perception or to rally support against something. It's a game of chess, on both sides, sadly.

 

[Brian]

Fair. In any case I find what Sen. Stewart says to be of interest but I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Does that satisfy you?

Absolutely.

I hope others, particularly those who expressed extreme skepticism/outright dismissal of DeSantis' claims of having a plan due to the lack of evidence, do the same.

 

[flynnibus]

Um, where did DeSantis say that? I didn't think he said that at all (though I may have missed it). It's been inferred, but I didn't think he stated that.

it was his press secretary... among others.

 

[UNCgolf]

Oh, and for everyone who says that the Legislature can just create new taxes on Disney (or on anyone), they would need a supermajority to do so:

They're close to having the necessary supermajority in both the House and the Senate, but I think they're two seats short in both. Maybe three seats in the Senate.