News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
thomas998 said:
The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.
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Disney has not said a word publicly about this. The only people involved who I’ve seen mention the debt going to the counties are representatives for the counties that would be impacted. Should a representative for Orange County not speak up when his constituents could end up with a substantial tax increase?

RCID has publicly stated that they don’t believe the state can dissolve the district due to the impact on their municipal bonds. That statement is for the bondholders (which includes pension plans and individual retirement accounts among others) who have been adversely impacted by a drop in the value of those bonds. Are they babbling about it because they spoke out trying to calm their investors fears? Not everything is about petty political grudges. There are real people like RCID emergency workers and other employees as well as the bondholders who are collateral damage here.
 
Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
thomas998 said:
The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.
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I would like to see where Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents.
Does anyone have a link where Disney is babbling about this?
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Disstevefan1 said:
So if there is ZERO chance that bond debt goes on Disney’s books, does that mean there is 100 percent chance the bond debt goes to the taxpayers?
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There’s no legal mechanism to move municipal bonds to a corporation’s books. It cannot happen. The debt either stays with RCID if the decision is reversed or if it’s not reversed then FL law says it goes to the local government which in this case is Orange and Osceola counties. That could then end up in Federal Court as the bondholders have a guarantee from the state that the district will not be harmed or dissolved until all debt is payed off.
lazyboy97o said:
It’s not just Disney that gets a say. If the bond holders think any modifications impair the ability of the District to meet their obligations they can gum up the works.
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For sure. Even if both sides agree to a compromise the bondholders could very well take this to court. Damage has already been done and the bonds are trading down 10%+ from where they were before this situation. Bondholders could sue for financial damages already.
 
M

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
So if there is ZERO chance that bond debt goes on Disney’s books, does that mean there is 100 percent chance the bond debt goes to the taxpayers?
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A little note here. Prior to the recent changes making the future uncertain, the RCID government bond debt was ALREADY 100 percent being paid by the taxpayers. Every tax payer that is covered in the RCID boundary was ALREADY on the hook to pay taxes that would be used to pay back that debt.

If nothing else is done, and the district is actually dissolved as stated by current in force law, then 100% the government bond debt will pass to the government entity that takes on all of the current RCID assets and debts.

However, it's probably 99% certain that the current in force law is changed again prior to the effective date of the current law.
 
M

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
So does that mean the debt is dissolved when RCID is dissolved? ;)
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Let's pretend we haven't read the last 256 pages, and that we don't know anything about contracts.

Let's just pretend that the FL legislature could write a law that would allow them to dissolve a bond issuing government entity and have all the bond debts just disappear. Think of it like a subsidiary company issuing bonds, then the holding company just closes the subsidiary in the dark of night. Say they spin it off and immediately declare bankruptcy liquidation.

What would that do to the bond issuing rating for every other bond issuing government entity in the state of FL? What would it do to the ability of those other government entity to function?

In the company example, what would it do to the holding company and all their other subsidiary companies?

Instant junk bond rating and complete dry up of access to borrow any money. It would plunge the state and the fictional company into chaos as they no longer have access to borrow money.

So, in that pretend world, it's a total catastrophe. Good thing we don't live in that pretend world. Everyone has read the last 256 pages and understands this just isn't a possible outcome.
 
Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
mmascari said:
A little note here. Prior to the recent changes making the future uncertain, the RCID government bond debt was ALREADY 100 percent being paid by the taxpayers. Every tax payer that is covered in the RCID boundary was ALREADY on the hook to pay taxes that would be used to pay back that debt.

If nothing else is done, and the district is actually dissolved as stated by current in force law, then 100% the government bond debt will pass to the government entity that takes on all of the current RCID assets and debts.

However, it's probably 99% certain that the current in force law is changed again prior to the effective date of the current law.
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Wait, so after 257 pages, we find out tax payers are already (and I presume all along) paying for these bonds and by that logic, there will be ZERO increase in taxes as a result of dissolving RCID??….

If that is true, there seems to me there could only be increased revenue to the state when RCID is dissolved.

WOW folks how come it took so long to know this???
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think if they transferred the debt…using “guesses” as to what to do as much as any pretense at legal standing…the most likely result of fault/liability in court would be:

1. The state of Florida
2. Orange and Osceola Counties
3. The Boogeyman
4. The Walt Disney Company
 

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