News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[peter11435]

"When the stated intent by many... " Okay... but it wasn't the stated intent by all... So at what point does the intent of some people which is a bad intention tarnish the intent of the others that had no bad intention? Is there a percent? I'm sure I can find people that had bad intentions when pretty much every law is passed, does that mean non of the laws are valid?

It was the stated intent of those who filed and sponsored the bill. It was the stated intent of those who publicly supported the bill. It was the stated intent of the person who added it to the special session. It was the stated intent of the governor who signed the bill into law.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

There is zero…ZERO chance that that bond debt goes on Disney’s books. As in it wouldn’t even be laughed out of court…it would be angrily tossed off the front steps of the courthouse

 

[flynnibus]

"When the stated intent by many... " Okay... but it wasn't the stated intent by all... So at what point does the intent of some people which is a bad intention tarnish the intent of the others that had no bad intention? Is there a percent? I'm sure I can find people that had bad intentions when pretty much every law is passed, does that mean non of the laws are valid?

I don't know the standard... but when it's openly stated.. including by yourself.. and you have the power to stop it (by not signing it) - but you do it anyway... pretty sure that could be argued as intentional and not simply inconsequential.

Besides, they'll sue the state for its impact - not the individuals. They'll find suitable evidence that the state acted with that intent because of all the factors together.

I mean.. this is not a fly in the ointment.. it's a law that has very specific targeting.

ETA: PLUS.. the very same people threw out they would stop this if their demands were met. I mean.. come on, it's a giant neon sign at this point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You can see why they are doing it. Disney has been acting like they own the state.

Disney has zero interest in being “a state”…they just don’t want yahoos whose policies change like the wind from the outside messing with their profit generating machine…

So they supply their own power and pave the roads.

This is really not that hard to wrap our ganglions around

 

[peter11435]

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

Could you point me to where Disney has “babbled” about the bond debt being pushed to the taxpayers? Could you point me to where Disney lawyers have been “loudly squawking”?

 

[lazyboy97o]

When I said a new district that was virtually the same I meant basically modifying the existing district, not a brand new district with a different name and different structure. So let me clarify: Option 1 is leave RCID exactly as it is, Option 2 is modify it (in a way Disney won’t really care about) to allow the other side to save face. A simple example that was brought up is to modify the district to not allow the construction or operation of a nuclear power facility. Disney would have no objection to that since they would never have any interest in actually building a nuclear power station and the Governor gets to claim he’s ridding the state of a great threat. Win/win. I don’t think those types of modifications would have an impact on the bonds. Any action that prohibits the district from collecting taxes would obviously be a no go.

For Disney I assume the biggest factor is keeping control. If a road has a pothole now Disney can direct RCID to repair it immediately. If the road maintenance is shifted to the county they can request the repair but the county will get to it when they get to it. Same goes for utilities and emergency services. First responders would be under the structure of the counties and customers would get a bill for an ambulance ride like any other county customer. Disney pays more now for better services that they control.

It’s not just Disney that gets a say. If the bond holders think any modifications impair the ability of the District to meet their obligations they can gum up the works.

 

[peter11435]

You can see why they are doing it. Disney has been acting like they own the state.

Example

 

[Disstevefan1]

There is zero…ZERO chance that that bond debt goes on Disney’s books. As in it wouldn’t even be laughed out of court…it would be angrily tossed off the front steps of the courthouse

So if there is ZERO chance that bond debt goes on Disney’s books, does that mean there is 100 percent chance the bond debt goes to the taxpayers?

 

[GoofGoof]

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

Disney has not said a word publicly about this. The only people involved who I’ve seen mention the debt going to the counties are representatives for the counties that would be impacted. Should a representative for Orange County not speak up when his constituents could end up with a substantial tax increase?

RCID has publicly stated that they don’t believe the state can dissolve the district due to the impact on their municipal bonds. That statement is for the bondholders (which includes pension plans and individual retirement accounts among others) who have been adversely impacted by a drop in the value of those bonds. Are they babbling about it because they spoke out trying to calm their investors fears? Not everything is about petty political grudges. There are real people like RCID emergency workers and other employees as well as the bondholders who are collateral damage here.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Could you point me to where Disney has “babbled” about the bond debt being pushed to the taxpayers? Could you point me to where Disney lawyers have been “loudly squawking”?

lol…isn’t it funny how that’s EXACTLY what the other side has done?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So if there is ZERO chance that bond debt goes on Disney’s books, does that mean there is 100 percent chance the bond debt goes to the taxpayers?

absolutely…if they change the status quo…which they won’t

 

[peter11435]

So if there is ZERO chance that bond debt goes on Disney’s books, does that mean there is 100 percent chance the bond debt goes to the taxpayers?

There’s a 99% chance the bond debt stays with the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

I would like to see where Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents.
Does anyone have a link where Disney is babbling about this?

 

[GimpYancIent]

absolutely…if they change the status quo…which they won’t

Welllll for some reason the phrase "Hold My Beer" comes to mind.

 

[Disstevefan1]

There’s a 99% chance the bond debt stays with the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

So does that mean the debt is dissolved when RCID is dissolved?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Welllll for some reason the phrase "Hold My Beer" comes to mind.

But that applies when the battle uphill is far less “steep”

 

[peter11435]

So does that mean the debt is dissolved when RCID is dissolved?

0% chance of that

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So does that mean the debt is dissolved when RCID is dissolved?

Umm no…

Can’t just “cancel” bond debt. Only con artists bankers and real estate developers can legally rip people off in such a manner

 

[GoofGoof]

So if there is ZERO chance that bond debt goes on Disney’s books, does that mean there is 100 percent chance the bond debt goes to the taxpayers?

There’s no legal mechanism to move municipal bonds to a corporation’s books. It cannot happen. The debt either stays with RCID if the decision is reversed or if it’s not reversed then FL law says it goes to the local government which in this case is Orange and Osceola counties. That could then end up in Federal Court as the bondholders have a guarantee from the state that the district will not be harmed or dissolved until all debt is payed off.

It’s not just Disney that gets a say. If the bond holders think any modifications impair the ability of the District to meet their obligations they can gum up the works.

For sure. Even if both sides agree to a compromise the bondholders could very well take this to court. Damage has already been done and the bonds are trading down 10%+ from where they were before this situation. Bondholders could sue for financial damages already.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

0% chance of that

I don’t think it’s possible.

You know who would be sued immediately by the bond holders??

I can think of four names…and the big one is the least likely to have a case stick against them.