News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The Orlando Sentinel could provide a lot of flesh to the story.

"ORANGE COUNTY OKAYS ROAD DEAL WITH DISNEY​

By Michael Blumfield Of The Sentinel Staff
Orlando Sentinel
•
Jul 25, 1989 at 12:00 am"

The sentinel tends to comfortably sit on the fence post on things such as this

 

[mikejs78]

That is the best book ever written about wdw.

Married to the mouse is a close second

I'll second that. Project Future is excellent.

 

[thomas998]

* DeSantis added the bill to the special session agenda

* The leaders of the house and Senate in FL have said the same things about the reasons for the bill as DeSantis

It's perfectly fine for people to think Reedy Creek should be discussed or dissolved. Nothing wrong even with debating it or passing legislation about it. But when the stated intent by many people to pass it is to punish Disney for speaking, then it becomes an unconstitutional use of legislative power.

"When the stated intent by many... " Okay... but it wasn't the stated intent by all... So at what point does the intent of some people which is a bad intention tarnish the intent of the others that had no bad intention? Is there a percent? I'm sure I can find people that had bad intentions when pretty much every law is passed, does that mean non of the laws are valid?

 

[LittleBuford]

"When the stated intent by many... " Okay... but it wasn't the stated intent by all... So at what point does the intent of some people which is a bad intention tarnish the intent of the others that had no bad intention? Is there a percent? I'm sure I can find people that had bad intentions when pretty much every law is passed, does that mean non of the laws are valid?

Are we supposed to ignore the stated intent of those actually behind the move? That makes no sense. If they're telling us that they're doing what they're doing to punish Disney, why wouldn't we believe them?

 

[LittleBuford]

And slavery was legal in this country for how many years? Simply because a law has existed for 55 years doesn't magically make it a law that must always exist.

What a ridiculous and, frankly, insulting comparison. Really, really distasteful and inappropriate.

 

[lazyboy97o]

"When the stated intent by many... " Okay... but it wasn't the stated intent by all... So at what point does the intent of some people which is a bad intention tarnish the intent of the others that had no bad intention? Is there a percent? I'm sure I can find people that had bad intentions when pretty much every law is passed, does that mean non of the laws are valid?

This isn’t a case of others coming in with bad intentions. It was started with bad intentions. It was lead with bad intentions. Those who might not have bad intentions chose to join those with bad intentions.

 

[thomas998]

This is all on DeSantis no matter what folks say. Disney was targeted no matter what folks say. The ironic thing is this will backfire; Disney will win big if this goes through Disney getting to dump 1 Billion, some say 2 Billion of debt on to the tax payers, now that’s a tax break for Disney!

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

It isn’t Disney saying this. It’s a bunch of others who are looking at the plan as called for by state law. Why don’t you present to us the mechanism by which municipal bonds can legally be changed to corporate bonds, and it also has to not tank the credit rating of every other municipal entity in Florida? How does the state force the federal government to take on new debt? How does the state force bond holders to take early repayment?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And slavery was legal in this country for how many years? Simply because a law has existed for 55 years doesn't magically make it a law that must always exist.

Slavery?

You have got to be kidding…

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm not sure how a new district that's exactly like the old one makes any sense as an outcome. There's a huge cost to do that, it's not clear that it's any better for the bonds than dissolution (since it is dissolution and then new creation on top of that), and it's not clear why Disney would be incentivized to work on that. Keeping the current district and modifying it in some way seems more likely, but even then it'll be questionable what the modification is, unless it's something totally benign.

We keep pretending that RCID is the same as Disney too. But, it's not really. It is it's own government entity, not so different from other government entities. Managed by the people voted on to control the district by those that live within the districts boundaries. They just happen to all be Disney people through the very careful residential planning that's been occurring for 50 years.

I think this still comes down to how much Disney management values that influence into RCID they have because of that resident control vs all the public roads (and other public services) within the WDW boundaries being managed. After all, those are still public services managed by a public governmental entity. While we may say Disney maintains the roads, that's not really true. RCID maintains the public roads. Disney maintains the private roads. I'm still guessing there's someone in Disney comparing the direct cost advantages of dissolving the district to the long term strategic cost implications of all that public infrastructure being part of a larger entity. The huge negative local PR of just walking away and leaving the counties holding the bag is in there too.

One assumes the long term benefits are more important here. But, how many times have we seen quarterly impacts cause companies to make bad long term decisions. Not having to pay extra RCID taxes could be a big short term balance sheet boost without the impact seen for years and until the next management team. We all know how this board feels about the current management team.

When I said a new district that was virtually the same I meant basically modifying the existing district, not a brand new district with a different name and different structure. So let me clarify: Option 1 is leave RCID exactly as it is, Option 2 is modify it (in a way Disney won’t really care about) to allow the other side to save face. A simple example that was brought up is to modify the district to not allow the construction or operation of a nuclear power facility. Disney would have no objection to that since they would never have any interest in actually building a nuclear power station and the Governor gets to claim he’s ridding the state of a great threat. Win/win. I don’t think those types of modifications would have an impact on the bonds. Any action that prohibits the district from collecting taxes would obviously be a no go.

For Disney I assume the biggest factor is keeping control. If a road has a pothole now Disney can direct RCID to repair it immediately. If the road maintenance is shifted to the county they can request the repair but the county will get to it when they get to it. Same goes for utilities and emergency services. First responders would be under the structure of the counties and customers would get a bill for an ambulance ride like any other county customer. Disney pays more now for better services that they control.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Are we supposed to ignore the stated intent of those actually behind the move? That makes no sense. If they're telling us that they're doing what they're doing to punish Disney, why wouldn't we believe them?

People where it’s hot are so used to their pols lying to them that they don’t believe them when they actually say what they’re really doing?

 

[peter11435]

And slavery was legal in this country for how many years? Simply because a law has existed for 55 years doesn't magically make it a law that must always exist.

I think this just about rules out anything else you say being taken seriously. These really aren’t comparable in the least.

 

[mmascari]

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

Now you're just trolling right? Were the earlier posts to try and get everyone going? Well played earlier, but I think this one put you over the top.

Disney has be super quiet. Enough that many have wondered what was up.

It's not Disney debt, it's RCID debt. The only debt impact to Disney is not having to pay RCID taxes after it's gone. It's also not 2 billion.

There's no mechanism to transfer public RCID debt to a private Disney company.

All things that were discussed in great details 100 pages ago. If not trolling, I'm not sure the point in trying to rehash it all again and using the wrong numbers too.

 

[itsy bitsy spider]

You can see why they are doing it. Disney has been acting like they own the state.

 

[peter11435]

"When the stated intent by many... " Okay... but it wasn't the stated intent by all... So at what point does the intent of some people which is a bad intention tarnish the intent of the others that had no bad intention? Is there a percent? I'm sure I can find people that had bad intentions when pretty much every law is passed, does that mean non of the laws are valid?

It was the stated intent of those who filed and sponsored the bill. It was the stated intent of those who publicly supported the bill. It was the stated intent of the person who added it to the special session. It was the stated intent of the governor who signed the bill into law.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

There is zero…ZERO chance that that bond debt goes on Disney’s books. As in it wouldn’t even be laughed out of court…it would be angrily tossed off the front steps of the courthouse

 

[flynnibus]

"When the stated intent by many... " Okay... but it wasn't the stated intent by all... So at what point does the intent of some people which is a bad intention tarnish the intent of the others that had no bad intention? Is there a percent? I'm sure I can find people that had bad intentions when pretty much every law is passed, does that mean non of the laws are valid?

I don't know the standard... but when it's openly stated.. including by yourself.. and you have the power to stop it (by not signing it) - but you do it anyway... pretty sure that could be argued as intentional and not simply inconsequential.

Besides, they'll sue the state for its impact - not the individuals. They'll find suitable evidence that the state acted with that intent because of all the factors together.

I mean.. this is not a fly in the ointment.. it's a law that has very specific targeting.

ETA: PLUS.. the very same people threw out they would stop this if their demands were met. I mean.. come on, it's a giant neon sign at this point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You can see why they are doing it. Disney has been acting like they own the state.

Disney has zero interest in being “a state”…they just don’t want yahoos whose policies change like the wind from the outside messing with their profit generating machine…

So they supply their own power and pave the roads.

This is really not that hard to wrap our ganglions around

 

[peter11435]

The very fact that Disney has been babbling about the 2 billion in debt being pushed onto the residents of Florida is the best evidence that that will never happen. You have to know that when this happened Disney would have had their lawyers going over what the ramifications to Disney were going to be. IF the Disney lawyers truly believed that at the end of the day Disney would be able to push off the 2 billion from themselves onto the others in the area they wouldn't be squawking so loudly they would be quiet and wait until June of 2023 when they would suddenly see 2 billion in liabilities vanish. The reality is they are in fear that the state will pass additional laws that will put the 2 billion in debt squarely back onto Disney and most likely be done in a way that requires the money be paid sooner than later.

Could you point me to where Disney has “babbled” about the bond debt being pushed to the taxpayers? Could you point me to where Disney lawyers have been “loudly squawking”?

 

[lazyboy97o]

When I said a new district that was virtually the same I meant basically modifying the existing district, not a brand new district with a different name and different structure. So let me clarify: Option 1 is leave RCID exactly as it is, Option 2 is modify it (in a way Disney won’t really care about) to allow the other side to save face. A simple example that was brought up is to modify the district to not allow the construction or operation of a nuclear power facility. Disney would have no objection to that since they would never have any interest in actually building a nuclear power station and the Governor gets to claim he’s ridding the state of a great threat. Win/win. I don’t think those types of modifications would have an impact on the bonds. Any action that prohibits the district from collecting taxes would obviously be a no go.

For Disney I assume the biggest factor is keeping control. If a road has a pothole now Disney can direct RCID to repair it immediately. If the road maintenance is shifted to the county they can request the repair but the county will get to it when they get to it. Same goes for utilities and emergency services. First responders would be under the structure of the counties and customers would get a bill for an ambulance ride like any other county customer. Disney pays more now for better services that they control.

It’s not just Disney that gets a say. If the bond holders think any modifications impair the ability of the District to meet their obligations they can gum up the works.