News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[AEfx]

At this point Disney is looking to maximize per cap spending with one time guests instead of focusing on frequent frugal visitors ( like me ). It is obvious that short term is to impress the Street but long term it is a huge gamble.

Yes, it is a huge gamble - and it will be interesting to see how long the bubble continues to last.

It's not just the more frugal visitors - it's the "Disney Moms" and those that are willing to spend at Disney that have been disgruntled for awhile now. Sure, there will always be the "I don't care how bad the value gets, I'm addicted to Disney so it's still worth it to me" folks - but when you read what people across different media platforms say about WDW these days - there is a lot of discontent that wasn't there even just a few years ago.

The constant reduction in entertainment, services, the addition of park reservations and the nightmare of Genie+ literally bringing the worst nightmare of "pay per ride" to fruition, to a sparse and drawn out additions of new attractions, the constant price increases, the need to plan so detailed that even the most ardent theme park commandos get dizzy - eventually it has to catch up.

 

[flynnibus]

This is way misinformation is even worse than lies. Facts in the wrong hands can create even more stupid than outright lies.

Because too many don’t even care if the assertion is honest and complete as long as it resonates with a thought they support

‘Its not wrong… its heres the data’
Yeah, but you are using it wrong…

 

[GoofGoof]

Gov. DeSantis' press secretary making a very similar argument to what has been brought up here.

There is more of a benefit than tax savings. I tried to lay it out earlier but not sure how many people bothered to read since it was a long post. It’s actually very likely Disney would save money on taxes if RCID was dissolved but lose the ability to finance infrastructure projects off balance and lose a level of control around projects. So just because they might pay lower taxes if the district was disolved doesn’t mean they would want that. It’s more nuanced than that.

 

[mikejs78]

There is more of a benefit than tax savings. I tried to lay it out earlier but not sure how many people bothered to read since it was a long post. It’s actually very likely Disney would save money on taxes if RCID was dissolved but lose the ability to finance infrastructure projects off balance and lose a level of control around projects. So just because they might pay lower taxes if the district was disolved doesn’t mean they would want that. It’s more nuanced than that.

Exactly. My read is it does save them money on investment in new projects but not general operations. So it's quite possible that removing the district will decrease their normal tax burden, but increase the cost of investing in new things. So, the outcome of that would be less investing in new things,.

 

[Lilofan]

Imagine having the mentality of not being able to stop eating McDonald's. Pathetic... Healthy people don't eat that ****.

Exception - Olympic Village McDonalds open 24/7 all u can eat to satisfy the voracious appetites of athletes from all over the world. ( ie swimmers Ryan Locke and Michael Phelps ate their share )

 

[Brian]

There is more of a benefit than tax savings. I tried to lay it out earlier but not sure how many people bothered to read since it was a long post. It’s actually very likely Disney would save money on taxes if RCID was dissolved but lose the ability to finance infrastructure projects off balance and lose a level of control around projects. So just because they might pay lower taxes if the district was disolved doesn’t mean they would want that. It’s more nuanced than that.

Agreed. The only reason I posted it is because I've noticed there's quite a bit out there from local officials, but not much from the state.

There is always more to a story, whether it's coming from a political figure's spokesperson, a county tax collector, or the press. Unfortunately, everyone has an agenda these days, and it's incumbent upon the consumer of news and information to discern, as best they can, what the full and true story is.

 

[BWV2013]

As I said above, one business day is not "strangely silent". I know we live in this instant, knee jerk reaction social media world - but coming out with lengthy statements and escalating the war of words would be the dumbest thing as a corporation they could do right now. It would only serve to hurt any actual legal proceedings.

I think in our instant knee jerk world it is "'Strange" to remain silent. I did not mean to imply that Disney was wrong for not immediately responding, I think it is a smart move on their part, but still strange in our knee jerk world. My goal was to start a conversation on Disney's next move. I can't wait to see how they stick it to the MAN!!

Humor alert, because a few folks here have no since of humor - I do have to disagree with one thing you said. If you think Disney escalating the war of words would be the dumbest thing a corporation could do it is very obvious you have not seen the Harmonious show

 

[AEfx]

The decline is mostly due to Disney+. When Netflix took a dump after poor numbers it pulled everyone in streaming down. While the pandemic had Disney parks and the movie studios shut down and/or scaled way back streaming business was the bright spot. Now it’s a drag on the stock price. It’s all cyclical.

Well, Disney stock has been dragging for a year, long before this Netflix news.

That said, when you do the math, Disney+ is still a bright spot, and the pundits saying the Netflix news that they finally hit a plateau after 10+ years of constant subscriber gains, really isn't a reflection on Disney+. It's actually a reaction to it. A lot of families with kids don't need Netflix nearly as much now - and it's twice as expensive as Disney+. Easy decision to drop the more expensive one when your kids are watching the massive Disney+ library all the time. And when you factor in all the other competition - it's a wonder Netflix kept record growth for this long.

I see a lot of Disney+ trashing in this thread - it remains the big bright hope financially for the company. It is already bringing in tremendous revenue. If you calculate subscriber numbers even now, it brings in 100's of millions of dollars a month in the US alone. If they come even close to their subscriber estimates for the next few years, it will be hitting over a billion dollars in revenue worldwide, again, per month.

Of course, it also goes without saying - Disney is also the master of content creation - among all the streaming services, they (along with HBO Max) have a century's worth of content to offer and are already content making power-houses, unlike Netflix, who even the stuff that is "Netflix exclusive" is still mostly made out of house and just bought to be branded.

Streaming hasn't suddenly become unprofitable - people need content, and they aren't going back to Cable TV. It is just that Netflix's insane growth has finally stopped because there is so much choice now. The pundits saying this is the beginning of the death of streaming are just market heads who apparently know little about the business itself they are talking about.

 

[mikejs78]

Agreed. The only reason I posted it is because I've noticed there's quite a bit out there from local officials, but not much from the state.

There is always more to a story, whether it's coming from a political figure's spokesperson, a county tax collector, or the press. Unfortunately, everyone has an agenda these days, and it's incumbent upon the consumer of news and information to discern, as best they can, what the full and true story is.

The difference is that others are explaining logistics of why Disney will pay less taxes. The press secretary post was just drivel and misdirection with nothing to back up her statement. How, exactly will Disney pay more? DeSantis and team need to lay that out if there's really substance behind those claims.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Exactly. My read is it does save them money on investment in new projects but not general operations. So it's quite possible that removing the district will decrease their normal tax burden, but increase the cost of investing in new things. So, the outcome of that would be less investing in new things,.

Look at Disneyland . They invest tremendous amounts without a special district and at times a hostile local government. TWDC and WDW will weather this RCID controversy whichever way it resolves. In the end pursuit of profit's and cooler heads will win out.

 

[mikejs78]

Look at Disneyland . They invest tremendous amounts without a special district and at times a hostile local government. TWDC and WDW will weather this RCID controversy whichever way it resolves. In the end pursuit of profit's and cooler heads will win out.

Disney World is a whole different beast compared to DLR. Roadways, transportation systems, electrical grids, etc. You can't even compare them. I don't think that will be the case as long as Chapek is CEO.

 

[GoofGoof]

Look at Disneyland . They invest tremendous amounts without a special district and at times a hostile local government. TWDC and WDW will weather this RCID controversy whichever way it resolves. In the end pursuit of profit's and cooler heads will win out.

Disneyland is closer to Universal Florida in terms of size and scope of infrastructure needed. WDW has 175 miles of roadways and utilities for tens of thousands of hotel rooms, 4 theme parks and a massive shopping district. If RCID was dissolved some of that spend on needed infrastructure projects will come out TWDC capital spend budget and that could mean less spend on actual attractions. A few pages back I posted the example of the overpass project near MK park. If Disney still wanted to go forward with that project but RCID had been dissolved 5 years ago that spending could have replaced the Tron coaster or something else for the parks. Instead they got RCID to finance the road project through municipal bonds and it’s paid for over years in tax payments so no debt on the books of TWDC.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney World is a whole different beast compared to DLR. Roadways, transportation systems, electrical grids, etc. You can't even compare them. I don't think that will be the case as long as Chapek is CEO.

The resort district has roadways, transportation and infrastructure. Disney not running the electrical utility isn't really a big deal anymore. I bet FL's end game is more like the resort distrct model - one that provides similar overlay for taxing and separate controls.. but just not ran by Disney. Problem is... can they work out some deal that Disney would be willing to support as well. Much much harder without the incumbants playing along.. especially since you have the cities involved that basically controls as well.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The difference is that others are explaining logistics of why Disney will pay less taxes. The press secretary post was just drivel and misdirection with nothing to back up her statement. How, exactly will Disney pay more? DeSantis and team need to lay that out if there's really substance behind those claims.

This is it. One person has made citations and has long published the relevant tax information. The other has a secret plan that we’re not allowed to know.

It’s also piling on the evidence that Disney is being punished.

 

[GoofGoof]

This is it. One person has made citations and has long published the relevant tax information. The other has a secret plan that we’re not allowed to know.

It’s also piling on the evidence that Disney is being punished.

The Governor has made it crystal clear to anyone who will listen that this is punishment for Disney acting woke. He doesn’t really care what the impact is on Orange County or even the state of FL. He has bigger ambitions. If this does go through it’s not likely to happen in 2023. It will be delayed in court for a period of time. By the time there is a resolution the Gov will be focused on a presidential run and won’t care either way if Disney wins or loses. He certainly doesn’t seem concerned about the long term impact to the FL economy. That will be blamed on whoever is in charge at the time.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Blog Mickey reporting that Florida is still giving Disney a $580 million tax break for moving WDI here. Interesting that the Governor is still ok with this?

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Just to lighten things up a bit…remember when the first thread we would check everyday was Katiebug?

 

[peter11435]

Blog Mickey reporting that Florida is still giving Disney a $580 million tax break for moving WDI here. Interesting that the Governor is still ok with this?

He doesn’t care about that. He’s only interested in silencing opposition, gaining media spotlight and appealing to his base by standing up to the woke corporation.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Everything I posted was true. What do you have a disagreement with?

Which other theme park asked for a special district? Universal is 500 acres, Sea World is 200, Disney is 28,000. Apples and oranges. And when Reedy Creek was formed, Orlando was a swamp without the facilities and infrastructure to support Disney. They might not have been able to build without the special district.

Not sure why my posts were deleted because I was responding in kind. Anyways, what FL did with Disney is not a free market approach as others suggested. It is granting a special privilege to one corporation at the expense of others. The size of Disney does not negate the fact that RCID gives them an unfair advantage.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

He doesn’t care about that. He’s only interested in silencing opposition, gaining media spotlight and appealing to his base by standing up to the woke corporation.

If you researched it a little more, you would realize that the tax incentive in question is open to any corporation coming to FL. RCID is a unique privilege given to Disney alone and is reminiscent of Medieval Age licenses.