News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[prberk]

I can point too many private construction projects that get done in a timely manner and do innovative things without the need of a special district.

That is true, but how many of them paid for ALL of the infrastructure and services and created an innovative destination known the world over for that innovation?

I know innovation happens under all circumstances. But I think you missed my point of why I was sad. This one was special and worked in amazing ways, with trust.
Failures and friction along the way, yes. But world-famous quality and innovation that worked with trust, the loss of which is worth lamenting.

 

[GoofGoof]

Also, many of the "private projects" would become public projects under this act (such as any roadwork) - and we all know that governments don't always move quickly or seek to hire the best choice when it comes to repairing (or altering) roads.

This is true, but as we have seen from the new project at Universal the taxpayers of OC are footing the bill for half of the new road being built to connect to that park. When Disney did the big project near Magic Kingdom to build new overpasses the taxpayers paid zero towards it. It was paid for by RCID which is almost fully funded by Disney. So while Disney would lose some control over projects they would also gain a financial benefit by having some of the cost burden worn by the county taxpayers. I’m sure Universal spends plenty on lobbying efforts with OC to get the favorable treatment they are getting for things like roads and I‘m sure they justify it by showing how many new jobs and how many more tax dollars come in from a project like this.

So some would ask, why does Disney want to keep RCID if they could save money on projects being a regular taxpayer? A lot of the benefit comes from greater control, but there is also an additional financial benefit. Let’s say there’s a major infrastructure project like the new road to Universal park. That project costs $315M and the government is paying $141M and Universal is paying $174M. An equivalent project at WDW would be paid $315M by RCID and zero for WDW and the project would most likely be paid for by RCID using municipal bonds. Those bonds are issued by RCID so the debt never shows on the balance sheet of TWDC. They are essentially financing infrastructure projects off balance sheet and at low municipal interest rates. In the Universal example the parent company Comcast would either need to fork over $174M from corporate cash (reducing cash available for share repurchases) or take out debt that would be on the books for the $174M. So at the end of the day TWDC through tax payments to RCID will pay the full $315M plus interest for the project but they don‘t have to carry the debt on their balance sheet. Universal pays less overall but foots their own bill on balance sheet. Keep in mind Universal also pays higher taxes to Orange County to pay their fair share of road projects.

Long story short, for Disney they have much larger and more frequent projects so RCID is a bigger benefit to them then most competitors to be able to finance the projects off balance sheet. When we talk Parks expansion and new projects they always discuss capital spend at the parks. There is a certain amount of capital spend used for major maintenance of attractions and a portion used to fund new projects. We all know that the Company attempts to manage the level of capital spend and spread projects over time. If RCID didn’t exist the cost of road projects and new utilities would also be added into that number. So maybe instead of the Tron coaster they would have allocated those funds to the overpass project at MK. So while Disney won’t be pulling out of FL they may allocate less funds for new attractions which hurts park fans and also hurts CMs who won’t have those jobs now.

 

[GoofGoof]

I understand what you are saying but SD is a Chinese park where TWDC is an investor with no controlling ownership. Not a relevant comparison. TWDC would absolutely be better off simply divesting itself of SD. WDW is in no way shape or form like SD. Any possibility of property seizure because of this RCID issue is not on any radar, not realistic.

I don’t disagree that it’s not being discussed by the actual government. The other poster was advocating the state doubling down and seizing Disney property as further punishment. That’s what happens in China if you speak out against the government. That was what I was reacting to. I would hope in this country we would never see it and if they did try it would be blocked by the courts. Still frightening to see people would be in favor of something like that.

 

[mikejs78]

As Disney fans (as I assume most on this board are) we should be concerned about what the future holds and how the future guest experience might be altered. It could have significant impacts. Not only in levels of service and upkeep but also visual intrusions and reduced investment.

Bob needs to go yesterday. This isn't the way to handle this. Disney needs to fight back.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Bob needs to go yesterday. This isn't the way to handle this. Disney needs to fight back.

TWDC's board needs to reflect on its current course, get a fresh competent management team at the helm and correct its course.

 

[GoofGoof]

TWDC's board needs to reflect on its current course, get a fresh competent management team at the helm and correct its course.

Are we assuming the board didn’t bless Chapek’s statements? I highly doubt he didn’t discuss this with the board first.

 

[drizgirl]

And yet attendance keeps increasing

Nobody is shocked that attendance is still increasing in a post pandemic world. Things haven't settled into the new normal yet.

 

[mikejs78]

Are we assuming the board didn’t bless Chapek’s statements? I highly doubt he didn’t discuss this with the board first.

I'm fine with the statements per se- I'm more concerned with how poorly it was handled and how it seems like he's using this as an excuse to cut cut cut.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Are we assuming the board didn’t bless Chapek’s statements? I highly doubt he didn’t discuss this with the board first.

Hence the deep need for the board to reflect. The famous "What Have We Done?!" exclamation.

 

[peter11435]

Nobody is shocked that attendance is still increasing in a post pandemic world. Things haven't settled into the new normal yet.

Oh ok so those on the right will boycott to support their values but only after they get their post pandemic fix. Got it

 

[LittleBuford]

Hence the deep need for the board to reflect. The famous "What Have We Done?!" exclamation.

Answer: The right thing. That they’re being punished for it doesn’t make it a bad decision. History will judge Disney well for this.

 

[peter11435]

Bob needs to go yesterday. This isn't the way to handle this. Disney needs to fight back.

What makes you think they won’t? The bill was signed on Friday. Give them time. The initial fight will likely come from the district. Directed, supported, and funded by Disney.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I do not believe attendance at any Disney Property has anything to do with either the right or left or middle of the political spectrum. An awesome amount of reasons for seeking entertainment though. Cost / experience are the two big drivers effecting decisions to go or not go not some social cause.

 

[GoofGoof]

I do not believe attendance at any Disney Property has anything to do with either the right or left or middle of the political spectrum. An awesome amount of reasons for seeking entertainment though. Cost / experience are the two big drivers effecting decisions to go or not go not some social cause.

The vast majority of people in this country don’t care about this either way. They see a 30 sec headline, shake their head, say what the heck is going on down in FL and then move on with their life. They later plan their trip to WDW without any real thought about this either way. This is a Disney message board where the vast majority of people knew RCID existed, that is not the norm in the country. We care because we care about the parks. The average tourist just wants a vacation and enjoys a visit to WDW.

 

[drizgirl]

Oh ok so those on the right will boycott to support their values but only after they get their post pandemic fix. Got it

You have no idea what the political leanings are of anyone in the parks these days.

Regardless, this law passed 2 days ago. Disney trips take months to book for most families. This is nothing like organizing a one day boycott of Chic-Fil-A.

It will take longer to show impact, and I think it will be harder to get them back once they leave.

 

[peter11435]

You have no idea what the political leanings are of anyone in the parks these days.

Regardless, this law passed 2 days ago. Disney trips take months to book for most families. This is nothing like organizing a one day of Chic-Fil-A.

It will take longer to show impact, and I think it will be harder to get them back once they leave.

No, but if half the country is adverse to supporting Disney there should be some indication of that in attendance and revenue.

Yes. This was only signed two days ago. But the movement behind it started some time ago.

Some will inevitably eventually choose to cut Disney out and not come back. Bye.

 

[GoofGoof]

You have no idea what the political leanings are of anyone in the parks these days.

Regardless, this law passed 2 days ago. Disney trips take months to book for most families. This is nothing like organizing a one day of Chic-Fil-A.

It will take longer to show impact, and I think it will be harder to get them back once they leave.

It’s possible it has some impact, but as we saw with the NFL it’s easy to say you will boycott but harder to follow through on it. Most people don’t care enough about politics. Half the country doesn’t even vote and of the other half that does it’s 30%/30% for the 2 parties and 40% independent. So 30% of the 50% that vote is 15% of the total population and not everyone who is a registered Republican will boycott Disney now so we’re talking well less than 10% of the total population who would even consider it. I’m not saying it’s good for Disney to alienate anyone, but I do sometimes think we over estimate the political influence that exists over people. The people on either extreme are very loud and make a lot of noise but the vast majority of the country is just left or just right of center.

 

[Tha Realest]

I assume this is a joke. TWDC has had to face the possibility of an authoritarian government seizing their property with their Shanghai park. It was built into the political risk premium on that project but the rate of return was still great enough to overcome. I don't think they ever considered that risk for the domestic parks. It’s frightening that citizens of the United States would suggest an action like that where the government seizes the property of a private company because they don’t blindly support the government. Really frightening stuff.

Of course it was a joke.

I fear your suggestion that doing business with the Chinese government, which runs concentration camps, jails political dissidents, and engages in forced abortions and sterilizations, is not a joke. Can you tell me what you view is a sufficient “rate of return” that justifies looking past those atrocities?

 

[mikejs78]

What makes you think they won’t? The bill was signed on Friday. Give them time. The initial fight will likely come from the district. Directed, supported, and funded by Disney.

Just the comments here that there would be cuts coming. Makes sense if they lose the fight or don't fight, but not if they win.

Seems to me they have numerous avenues to fight this on.

 

[BWV2013]

Disney has been strangely silent on this issue.
Why?
Are they afraid? - I don't think so
Are they preparing to go to court? - Maybe, but courts are very unpredictable and may not be the best course of action.
Are the making plans to use other laws to turn this whole mess around and come out better or at least as good as before it started? Most likely.

RCID was very important in the early days of WDW, but may not be as essential now.

There is a lot that depends on FL laws. In some states it is permissible for a govt entity to abandon certain infrastructure and turn back to private control / ownership. If this is allowed in FL, RCID could turn roads, and utilities back to Disney ownership and cut out most govt control, other than meeting health regulations for the sewer and drinking water systems.

This is just speculation, but interesting to consider. I think both sides handled this situation wrong, but if Disney plays their cards right they could come out with a huge victory.