News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[englanddg]

"AS A RESULT..." - there is no requirement for direct here... you keep beating this horse after it's already been put down 3 times.

You wrote:

"As a result, they were subjected to adverse action by the defendant that would chill a person of ordinary firmness from continuing to engage in the protected activity"

Who was? RCID or TWDC?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wow, you sound like if I said the place is run badly or is run inefficient when is the other way, they probably waste less $ than the counties. What I am trying to say is nobody before this week can say how much they pay or if they paying less or more taxes than anybody else, until someone run the numbers. Please relax. I am just saying the same thing the 2 counties were responding on TV. Nobody outside the workers in those departments know the numbers, even if the information is public. Is probably million of documents for the past 50 years. In a month or two we will find out on the news, right now there is probably teams of lawyers and reporters reading all that information.

Once again, taxes paid to Reedy Creek Improvement District are not in lieu of county taxes. Disney and the other landowners absolutely are paying more taxes than everyone else because they pay District taxes on top of the county taxes.

https://www.rcid.org/document/2022-rcid-operating-budget/

 

[lazyboy97o]

You wrote:

"As a result, they were subjected to adverse action by the defendant that would chill a person of ordinary firmness from continuing to engage in the protected activity"

Who was? RCID or TWDC?

What exactly are you having a hard time understanding?

 

[flynnibus]

I'm trying to understand.

No - you're trying to set a trap that doesn't apply. The standard has been shared - stop being obtuse to try to score a gotcha. Your end game is invalid as it's already been explained 4 times now.

 

[englanddg]

No - you're trying to set a trap that doesn't apply. The standard has been shared - stop being obtuse to try to score a gotcha. Your end game is invalid as it's already been explained 4 times now.

Has it? You keep making assertions. Not sure I've seen an explanation.

And what, pray tell, is my "end game"?

 

[GoofGoof]

Wow, you sound like if I said the place is run badly or is run inefficient when is the other way, they probably waste less $ than the counties. What I am trying to say is nobody before this week can say how much they pay or if they paying less or more taxes than anybody else, until someone run the numbers. Please relax. I am just saying the same thing the 2 counties were responding on TV. Nobody outside the workers in those departments know the numbers, even if the information is public. Is probably million of documents for the past 50 years. In a month or two we will find out on the news, right now there is probably teams of lawyers and reporters reading all that information.

I tried before and I will try 1 more time. What you are saying is simply not true. First RCID issues municipal debt which requires them to comply with all sorts of regulatory compliance. You cannot issue debt without complying. Investors own the billions of dollars in bonds they issue. The investors have lawyers and accountants and others that read the documents. Many of the documents are subject to an audit from an accounting firm as well. They read the documents. In additional to the financial regulatory filings RCID is also a utility. They provide power, natural gas and water/sewer services. Their power generation is subject to FERC regulatory reporting. Those reports are reviewed. There are also numerous environmental groups very interested in anything related to power generation, wastewater treatment and anything else impacting the environment. I don’t know what the state and federal requirements are for first responders but I would assume there is some reporting requirement there as well. There is a ton of oversight across the board.

RCID operates most years at a small loss. So Disney is paying in about what it costs to provide the services. There’s no windfall there for Disney.

 

[englanddg]

What exactly are you having a hard time understanding?

Where the line is between TWDC and RCID?

 

[Mr.Stang19]

Once again, taxes paid to Reedy Creek Improvement District are not in lieu of county taxes. Disney and the other landowners absolutely are paying more taxes than everyone else because they pay District taxes on top of the county taxes.

https://www.rcid.org/document/2022-rcid-operating-budget/

Are you saying Desantis is helping Disney by moving the debt and taxes to the counties? Are they paying double, to the county and RCID for the same service? This is how confusing this situation is. Right now there is probably hundred of lawyers reading all those documents.

 

[spaceghost]

Me walking into this thread:

 

[Disney Analyst]

Me walking into this thread:

Probably for the best

 

[lazyboy97o]

Where the line is between TWDC and RCID?

They are two legally distinct entities. The Walt Disney Company enjoys de facto control over the District because they are the largest landowner in the District which apportions votes based on land holdings. Before today, if The Walt Disney Company was dissolved the District would continue to exist. If Disney sold their hotels and the land under them to Marriott then Marriott would get voting rights in the District.

 

[JoeCamel]

Wow, you sound like if I said the place is run badly or is run inefficient when is the other way, they probably waste less $ than the counties. What I am trying to say is nobody before this week can say how much they pay or if they paying less or more taxes than anybody else, until someone run the numbers. Please relax. I am just saying the same thing the 2 counties were responding on TV. Nobody outside the workers in those departments know the numbers, even if the information is public. Is probably million of documents for the past 50 years. In a month or two we will find out on the news, right now there is probably teams of lawyers and reporters reading all that information.

Nope, that doesn't work either. Plenty of people look at the working of RCID and some of those are investigative journalists. There is nothing hidden here or was there in the past.

 

[englanddg]

They are two legally distinct entities. The Walt Disney Company enjoys de facto control over the District because they are the largest landowner in the District which apportions votes based on land holdings. Before today, if The Walt Disney Company was dissolved the District would continue to exist. If Disney sold their hotels and the land under them to Marriott then Marriott would get voting rights in the District.

Thank you. Ok. So they are not the same entity.

So, does TWDC enjoy financial benefits from their "de facto control" of RCID? Tax breaks and the like?

 

[flynnibus]

What I am trying to say is nobody before this week can say how much they pay or if they paying less or more taxes than anybody else, until someone run the numbers.

You are aware that property records including tax records are public records are you not? Including the ability to view them on the internet?

That's one of the firehouses for instance.

What you are saying about this 'no one knows what they pay' stuff is utter non-sense. Not only do the counties know... even you can know!

 

[ParentsOf4]

Perhaps you can help clear this up for me.

Were the protected statements and/or policy positions from representatives of TWDC or RCID?

Legally, does RCID = TWDC?

Historically, the Supreme Court looks past legal façades to get to the central issue.

TWDC has complete control over who serves on the RCID Board of Supervisors. The Supreme Court almost certainly will equate RCID to Disney.

Disney took three steps that would qualify as protected actions:

1. Disney publicly stated that they oppose the law.
2. Disney announced plans to fund groups that would fight the law in court.
3. Disney suspended campaign contributions to Florida politicians.

All three are protected as expressions of free speech.

I really think DeSantis is going to lose in court and RCID will continue to exist as it does today.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Thank you. Ok. So they are not the same entity.

So, does TWDC enjoy financial benefits from their "de facto control" of RCID? Tax breaks and the like?

No. Disney’s big benefits are in the level of service, the ability to direct infrastructure development and control over zoning. They pay more for those benefits.

 

[Mr.Stang19]

I tried before and I will try 1 more time. What you are saying is simply not true. First RCID issues municipal debt which requires them to comply with all sorts of regulatory compliance. You cannot issue debt without complying. Investors own the billions of dollars in bonds they issue. The investors have lawyers and accountants and others that read the documents. Many of the documents are subject to an audit from an accounting firm as well. They read the documents. In additional to the financial regulatory filings RCID is also a utility. They provide power, natural gas and water/sewer services. Their power generation is subject to FERC regulatory reporting. Those reports are reviewed. There are also numerous environmental groups very interested in anything related to power generation, wastewater treatment and anything else impacting the environment. I don’t know what the state and federal requirements are for first responders but I would assume there is some reporting requirement there as well. There is a ton of oversight across the board.

RCID operates most years at a small loss. So Disney is paying in about what it costs to provide the services. There’s no windfall there for Disney.

Ok but you still don't know how much it will cost the counties to provide the same services. Nobody have those numbers because this happened a few days ago. Yes everything is legal. How do you now the numbers when even the orange county mayor can't answer the same question. They only talked about the bonds there is still a lot more going on. People are just going online and repeating misinformation.

 

[englanddg]

No. Disney’s big benefits are in the level of service, the ability to direct infrastructure development and control over zoning. They pay more for those benefits.

So, focused attention of the governing body aside, what does TWDC lose? Their vote? I presume if they shifted RDIC to a traditional municipality, or back to the county, it would mean that as landowners they would lose their leverage, which would fall to residents instead?

Right?

 

[lazyboy97o]

So, focused attention of the governing body aside, what does TWDC lose? Their vote? I presume if they shifted RDIC to a traditional municipality, or back to the county, it would mean that as landowners they would lose their leverage, which would fall to residents instead?

Right?

They would lose the level of service provided. Let’s say you and your neighbors pay extra to maintain the street you live on. You pay for all maintenance needs. As soon as a pothole starts you pay to have it fixed, no need to wait for the city to get around to it. Would you consider it a loss if it was decided you could no longer pay extra to maintain your street?

Would it be a loss to Universal Orlando Resort if the City started to require them to present every new ride at a public hearing and get zoning approval?

 

[Mr.Stang19]

Documents - Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

CFTOD Utilities Ethics Policy Resolution

www.rcid.org

Start reading. Please share the dirt that you find.

Since when I said there is dirt is about the numbers. Can you tell my how much it will cost Orange County or Osceola County to provide the same service right now? Please give me number or a link. If you know you should run for mayor because today those 2 mayors still don't know. You are just fabricating information.