News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

AdventureHasAName

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
Tom P. said:
It's not that cut and dried. Intent matters. And the courts have ruled as such before. There is clear precedent.

Florida is totally within its rights to decide that special districts such as RCID are no longer beneficial and should be eliminated. However, even though that is a legitimate action to take, they can't take that action for a prohibited reason. If they are taking the action specifically as a way of stifling political speech, it is prohibited. Think of it this way: In an "at-will employment" state, an employer can fire someone for any reason or no reason at all. But even in those states, if you can prove that you were fired because you were black, it is illegal. An action that is normally perfectly permissible becomes illegal because of the intent.

The question, of course, always comes down to whether or not you can prove the intent. Normally that is difficult. However, in this case, since DeSantis and the legislators have publicly and plainly said exactly why they are doing it, I don't think it would be a high bar to clear. You can never be sure what a court will do, of course, but I have a feeling that Disney could prevail on this if they choose to fight it in court.
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So in the hypothetical I presented earlier (the Sparkle Magazine scenario), your argument is that the State of NJ must subsidize the KKK anti-gay editorials for as long as the magazine exists?
 
zakattack99

zakattack99

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
lazyboy97o said:
The District manages its own construction projects. For example, while Disney projects **** down for the pandemic the District kept building.
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Wendy Pleakley said:
Attractions aren't relevant as building those will always be up to Disney, and I imagine there may some purpose as far as how fast they build them in terms of when they want them ready (finishing Guardians quicker doesn't make sense when they want to benefit from a year or so of Ratatouille driving visitors).

So for me, the issue is more about roads and other infrastructure. It may be more difficult for Disney to add capacity for example. Others have pointed out that Disney may pay a premium to have roadwork done at night, but the county and/or taxpayers won't want to pay overtime in order to minimize guest impact.
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Sorry let me clarify, I was trying to make a joke lol. I am very much aware that Disney is in control of their building speed and timing and that RCID has its own projects that they work independently of Disney and that RCID does not control Disney's park projects. The joke was that on Tweet 4 the reporter said that if Disney has to work with the county to get projects approved it will slow the project down, my point was that I don't think anything can make Disney go slower than it already does. What's that old saying if you have to explain a joke its not actually that funny... yea summary of my life lol

I do agree with @Wendy Pleakley regarding concerns over infrastructure.
 
Y

yensid1967

Well-Known Member
from an article...
Right now, Disney pays taxes to Orange and Osceola counties, but all of the government-related services on Walt Disney World property—like fixing roads, fire department services and more—are paid for by Disney and Reedy Creek and not by county taxpayers.
Getting rid of Reedy Creek would “put an undue burden” on taxpayers

If Disney doesn't have to pay those taxes for services...maybe the cost of tickets, hotel rooms will decrease!!!! (wishful thinking) LOL
 
The Mom

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
Just to keep everyone on the same page re property taxes.
www.proptaxadjust.com

How Florida Property Tax Valuation Works • Property Tax Adjustments & Appeals, P.A.

Though Florida property tax appraisers must complete property valuations every year, they’re not always set in stone. Just what goes into those valuations? The appraisers look at such factors as the current use of the property and the prices of similar ones that have sold. Fair market value, the...
www.proptaxadjust.com www.proptaxadjust.com

Counties set their own sales taxes, but AFAIK the voters have a say. I know an amendment to raise our local sales taxes by 1/2% was on a ballot. There has to be a specific reason given for raising the tax.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Adventure Has A Name said:
So then your point that RCID is not a tax break is irrelevant. Either it is a benefit or it is not.
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This is the absolute-ism that just makes all this crap go in circles. This is not a binary thing. The reality is it's good for some things, worse for others. The problem is not only do people try to make it binary, they include all kinds of just flat out wrong cites to make it that way in their head. That's why you see lazyboy interjecting left and right debunking claims - but looking like it's both sides. No.. he's simply debunking the falsehoods being repeated.

The Improvement District is both an advantage and disadvantage depending on the topic. And not everything is an immediate gain.. some are more strategic or simply 'the long game'.. aka pay more now, but be better overall.

Money/Taxes
Disadvantages
  • More expensive due to no No economies of scale, no one else to really share the costs with
  • More expensive because you pay not only for the 'thing' but the overhead of the managing entity as well

Advantages
  • Input/control over spending initiatives
  • Input/control over strategic approach to topics (standards, spending levels, etc)
  • No outside stakeholders to convince or negotiate with when setting initiatives and priorities
  • Spending done as a tax - has tax credit advantages for the businesses instead of just paying for it outright as an expense
  • Alternate funding avenues - projects handled by RCID can be tax advantaged vs doing it yourself and municipal bonds are far cheaper funding than commercial loans

RCID is not the only tax collector Disney pays - but for services it is the one that they touch most directly and locally - so it's a big deal to influence and dictate how the local amenities are funded and managed

Net for Money/Taxes? It's more expensive to you, but you have far more control over what they are spending on/for. You end up self-funding (either directly or through RCID taxes) a lot of things other people get without paying extra for. But you also get this huge asset of having alternatives for RCID to fund things. It's more expensive short term for Disney, but probably cheaper long term.

Planning/Regulation
Disadvantages
  • Another entity in the mix
  • Stricter Standards than outside the district (But these are also standards you control)
  • Alot of overhead to fund and sustain

Advantages
  • You control the people that control the standards
  • You can control priorities - You aren't fighting for priority with a much larger work pool
  • You have a fixed boundary around you where you can keep others at bay - No NIMBY audiences to appease
  • You control the land management plan and it can be pushed to change to match your own initiatives
  • You don't have to negotiate proffers with hostile 3rd parties

RCID is not the only regulator Disney has to deal with - it can't apply these pros/cons to everything.. but they do get these pros/cons for that portion of things. This area really isn't a big advantage for Disney.. this is more legacy from earlier years. Disney could largely do what they already do without RCID in this bucket. But it is nice insulation - just not complete isolation

Net for Planning/Regulation? Still an advantage because they can shape the standards and push land management based on their own needs - not compromising with others on EVERYTHING. They do not escape other regulation, but some is in their pocket.

Services/Utilities
Disadvantages
  • More expensive due to lack of economies of scale
  • Not a core competency to have to deal with
  • Investing in large capital projects that are not revenue generators

Advantages
  • Control of standards/expectations
  • Control of expenses/planning
  • Your own scale gives you negotiating power with 3rd parties
  • Can control what is company paid for vs RCID paid for
  • Long term plans can be aligned to your company plans exclusively

Net for Services/Utilities? This one is probably a 'eye of the beholder' answer. If you are the type that is all about managing your standards... the pain is probably worth it. If you are a pure money guy.. the opportunity cost losses of all this money tied up in utilities and services probably looks horrible and you'd rather get it all off your books and just outsource it all.

What it's not?
'a tax break for disney'
'a burden for disney'
The real answers are far more give and take than that.

The 'gain' or not for Disney is very complex - you can't dismiss it with one liners. But what we do know is they've preferred to KEEP it all these years... so all the overhead and expenses have been considered at least valuable enough to the company to keep it as it is.
 
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AdventureHasAName

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
They didn’t do it and have made no indication that they will do it.
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This is just nonsense. The state senator who wrote the bill has literally said over and over and over and over again that the county will ultimately end up receiving all of the taxes receipts that RCID has historically received.
 
DisneyDebRob

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
Adventure Has A Name said:
This is just nonsense. The state senator who wrote the bill has literally said over and over and over and over again that the county will ultimately end up receiving all of the taxes receipts that RCID has historically received.
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Of course he did. What else would he say. Theres not enough pages on the internet for me to start saying what senators explain will happen when they write a bill.
 
AdventureHasAName

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Nobody pays Orange County for electricity…
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Well who do you think is going to own the electricity-providing infrastructure (that RCID now owns) once RCID is dissolved? You know that electricity-providing infrastructure that RCID currently uses to pay for the much-referenced $2 billion (it's really more like $1 billion, but I digress) bond debt?
 

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