News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lazyboy97o]

Its entirely accurate. All districts that were created prior to 1968 had to come into compliance with current law. Some were dissolved, some were re-established and became complaint with current law, but now there are no districts in Florida that don't have to follow the policies that were created in 1968 that regulate special districts.

Name one other district and how it was actually changed.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I haven’t checked all of the references but HB 7013 seems like it could cause all sorts of chaos. Local governments, mostly counties, could easily find themselves on the hook for providing multiple services they lack the revenue to support. Things like county libraries and airports are actually run by independent special districts. I haven’t read the charters for the Orange County Library District or the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority but I doubt any of their powers are tied to Chapter 190 (the chapter defining community development districts which are “shockingly” exempt).

Also, good luck to any special district trying to borrow money for necessary capital projects. Those types of loans and bonds tend to exceed 10 years, but they will have a very hard time finding any banks to buy their debt when they can't even be assured that the disrict will still exist a few years down the line.

 

[flynnibus]

It makes no sense that they would include those numbers for taxable properties but not for the non-taxable properties.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That's how they frame it... sorry if I read it wrong

They don't breakdown the liabilities, just lump it all as one 'other exceptions' and p00f.

 

[UCF]

Name one other district and how it was actually changed.

Sure, the Hamilton County Development Authority was not in compliance with Florida Statute 189, and was subject to dissolution unless the legislature re-established it in compliance with the law. The district was re-established in HB 1169 and changed the governance board in a matter similar to CFTOD, with the governor now appointing 5 of the board seats, and was brought into compliance with F.S. 189.

Since I know you're going to say that the governor appointing the board and bringing into compliance with the law isn't substantive, I'll go for another example: Bradford County Development Authority was dissolved, it no longer exists, which is a much more substantive change then RCID got.

Now can you name any district in the state that has a charter not in compliance with F.S. 189 since Florida law required them to be dissolved on June 1, 2023? I'll give you a hint, there were 6 district in the State of Florida NOT in compliance with F.S. 189 back in 2022, and they were:

• Bradford County Development Authority (Bradford County)
• Eastpoint Water and Sewer District (Franklin County)
• Hamilton County Development Authority (Hamilton County)
• Marion County Law Library (Marion County)
• Reedy Creek Improvement District (Orange and Osceola Counties)
• Sunshine Water Control District (Broward County

As far as I can tell, they were all either re-established and modified to be in compliance with F.S. 189 (RCID/CFTOD included), or they were dissolved.

 

[flynnibus]

That would be a great reason for those the district is accountable to, to change how a district is run.

Wait who it's accountable to??... now you're opening it to reform because the district was defined by the state, and the entire state through it's representation has a say in it's existence. The district is still accountable to the state as it's a creature of the state.. even if it was one created with a ton of defenses written to keep it walled up as best as Disney's lawyers could come up with in 1966. It still has accountability beyond it's direct electors - It's not an autonomous kingdom.

Do we really know Disney was going to redevelop it anyway? Maybe the math didn’t work without the district stepping in and they were thinking of just closing the whole thing. It’s not like Disney never let a property just sit unused if they decided it was more trouble than benefit. Not that it matters either way, since we’re already clear, it was a decision the district was free to make for either outcome.

Have you forgotten Hyperion Wharf? Again... redevelopment slated to be done without RCID owned garages. And as already mentioned, you had the influential tenants pushing for change. It was obvious Disney wasn't going to shutdown the LBV shopping district, but they were struggling to figure out which path to take with it. Remember this was also the period where there were lots of rumors of more adult centric entertainment concepts were being floated... and then we got the Hyperion Wharf concept... which was not well received, and then they reworked it again to Disney Springs.

Just this whole 'Well the district did it because of the promise of future growth or benefit to these tenants' just doesn't pass muster in face of all the same types of decisions facing the previous DTD projects. And projects like the grapefruit garage REALLY don't fit the idea of necessary to get the redevelopment committed or benefitting others.

 

[mkt]

both times nearly doubling it's size/scope. Yet this time, when Disney was going to redevelop DTD anyway... now it's an district initiative to fund parking needs here? Does not pass the smell test.

So the increases in employment and in sales tax revenues - to both the state and county, but not the district - doesn't pass the smell test?

Are you just looking for reasons that RCID shouldn't exist?

 

[Stripes]

If Disney took private ownership of the ultimately private facilities such as parking garages and the roads that only serve Disney properties (what RCID pays for), Disney would pay for those facilities directly AND have to pay impact fees. That would not get to evade any of the current costs, AND they would have the pay impact fees that everyone else has to pay.

This is false. Everything built within RCID, including Disney and non-Disney properties, is exempt from impact fees.

 

[Stripes]

Its entirely accurate. All districts that were created prior to 1968 had to come into compliance with current law. Some were dissolved, some were re-established and became complaint with current law, but now there are no districts in Florida that don't have to follow the policies that were created in 1968 that regulate special districts.

CFTOD is not compliant with current law. Under the Florida Constitution, the property owners would need to vote to authorize the maximum millage rate that CFTOD could levy. No such vote ever took place.

 

[UCF]

This is false. Everything built within RCID, including Disney and non-Disney properties, is exempt from impact fees.

Wrong, it was true. I did not state Disney was never exempt from impact fees, which is what your false factcheck seemed to imply I said. Disney used RCID to evade an estimated $1 billion in impact fees/taxes to avoid supporting the local community and paying their fair share. CFTOD wants to correct this and getting Disney paying the same impact fees that everyone else in the entire county pays, including all of their competitors like Universal. Universal's district does not exempt Universal from paying impact fees, Disney's district should not exempt Disney from paying impact fees.

I don't get why people here don't want Disney to pay their fair share, the same as everyone else. Its absurd.

 

[Stripes]

Here’s what you said:

If Disney took private ownership of the ultimately private facilities such as parking garages and the roads that only serve Disney properties (what RCID pays for), Disney would pay for those facilities directly AND have to pay impact fees.

You said that if Disney owned RCID’s parking garages and roads, they would need to pay impact fees on said infrastructure. This is false. First of all, impact fees are not levied by the counties on parking garages or roads. Second of all, everything built within RCID is exempt from impact fees. Everything from Disney-owned properties to the Four Seasons Orlando Resort to CFTOD. None of them pay impact fees. What Disney and the Four Seasons do pay is exorbitantly higher property taxes than all of their competitors outside of CFTOD.

Here’s a look at USF’s property tax bill. Note the millage rates.

And here’s the property tax bill for the Magic Kingdom. Note the millage rates.

Your again mixing up impact fees and property taxes. Impact fees are to add NEW facilities OFF of your property to minimize your traffic impacts to neighboring residents and pay them back for the impact you have to the infrastructure that is being used off property. Needless to say, Disney does not pay line items of property taxes that they do not receive, and paying for fire rescue and police are separate line items on a normal tax bill that Disney does not pay for. Disney pays RCID for these services INSTEAD of the county. Presumably, Disney is doing this for one of two reasons: 1) The contract that RCID has with the police is cheaper then they would typically pay in taxes, or 2) they are getting extra services over what the normal tax line item would provide.

Typically companies that get service from the police department would have to pay the normal property tax line item AND pay for a contract for extra service on top of it, which is quite common. Its unheard of for them to be able to do that INSTEAD of paying the property tax line item.

As you can see from the above property tax bills, Disney pays the exact same county tax rate as Universal Orlando. Contrary to your assertion, they do pay the county for fire rescue services as it is included in their property taxes. However, the burden for providing fire rescue services to Walt Disney World and all of RCID is handled by the Reedy Creek Fire Department instead of OCFRD, although Disney and other District taxpayers are entitled to receive OCFRD‘s help should their assistance ever be necessary.

The law that dissolved RCID did dissolve ALL special districts in the state that were given unlimited power and are not compliant with laws and regulations that set barriers to what special districts could do, that was created at a later date. RCID was not the only one dissolved, its just the only one people care about because they feel Disney needs special tax breaks on top of what everybody else gets.

RCID did not have “unlimited power” as you characterize. CFTOD is actually acting in violation of those laws and regulations you reference. And people only care about RCID because it was the only special district of any significance of the 6 that were captured in a bill clearly targeted at RCID, as evidenced by the governor‘s own memoir.

 

[Dranth]

Wrong, it was true. I did not state Disney was never exempt from impact fees, which is what your false factcheck seemed to imply I said. Disney used RCID to evade an estimated $1 billion in impact fees/taxes to avoid supporting the local community and paying their fair share. CFTOD wants to correct this and getting Disney paying the same impact fees that everyone else in the entire county pays, including all of their competitors like Universal. Universal's district does not exempt Universal from paying impact fees, Disney's district should not exempt Disney from paying impact fees.

I don't get why people here don't want Disney to pay their fair share, the same as everyone else. Its absurd.

No, what is absurd is having your local representation ripped away with zero regard for the actual laws in place, ignoring the state constitution and acting like that is a good thing. What is absurd is thinking that all the additional tax money Disney collects to NOT burden Orange and Osceola counties isn't more than enough to justify some of the benefits the district gave. What is absurd is changing the terms of those agreements without giving the people impacted by those changes a chance to terminate the VOLUNTARY extra taxes they were willing to pay for those privileges.

You want “fair” you unwind the district and let Disney decide if they want to form a new one. What was done was petty, dictatorial nonsense that should have no place in this country.

 

[mmascari]

Wait who it's accountable to??... now you're opening it to reform because the district was defined by the state, and the entire state through it's representation has a say in it's existence. The district is still accountable to the state as it's a creature of the state.. even if it was one created with a ton of defenses written to keep it walled up as best as Disney's lawyers could come up with in 1966. It still has accountability beyond it's direct electors - It's not an autonomous kingdom.

This is a purposeful misrepresentation of how delegated local government accountability works. I will 100% agree that the district is accountable to the state for anything it does that is outside the bounds of what it is charted to do. That didn't happen here, the garage decision was well within the scope of RCID possible decisions. For anything that is within the RCID charter, any policy they have specifically been delegated, they are only responsible to the voters within the district. In the case of the garages, that means the voting land owners within RCID.

This is a basic concept of how all local government works. The state doesn't get to micro manage every decision within a town as long as those decisions are within the bounds of a decision the town is responsible for.

Applying that type of accountability is an argument to remove all local government. The federal government could dictate all zoning in FL and stop any building less than 20 feet above sea level. A decision currently within local control.

They could certainly decide that it no longer wishes to delegate some type of decision. To reclaim that right from everyone that it has delegated it to. It doesn't get to arbitrarily pick and choose who though.

It doesn't matter what anyone outside of RCID thought of the decision for RCID to build the garages. It was a policy decision well within their rights. Might have been good, might have been bad, might have been wonky. Doesn't matter, it was their right to make the decision either way.


Which, get's us back to the original follow-up question. Is there any other example of Disney transferring CapEx to RCID? Something that wouldn't be within the rights of RCID to do?

That they didn't transfer TTC expenses to RCID was an example earlier. I would agree that had they done this, RCID paying for the TTC would have been outside the bounds of a policy decision available to RCID. The TTC is enough different than the Disney Springs garages to fall outside the bounds of a valid policy. Which is likely why they didn't do it.

 

[Unbanshee]

Forgive me if this has already been shared, but there's legislative activity which may affect CFTOD, as well as other districts.

Bill would allow local voters to abolish Disney's special district

A new Florida bill would allow local voters to dissolve certain independent special districts, including the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District encompassing Walt Disney World.

flvoicenews.com

Am I reading the bill incorrectly, or does section 5(4) say that this doesn't apply to the CFTOD and the author has completely misread or misrepresented the entire thing?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Am I reading the bill incorrectly, or does section 5(4) say that this doesn't apply to the CFTOD and the author has completely misread or misrepresented the entire thing?

Which portion do you think would exempt CFTOD? It’s not a community development or water management district.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sure, the Hamilton County Development Authority was not in compliance with Florida Statute 189, and was subject to dissolution unless the legislature re-established it in compliance with the law. The district was re-established in HB 1169 and changed the governance board in a matter similar to CFTOD, with the governor now appointing 5 of the board seats, and was brought into compliance with F.S. 189.

Since I know you're going to say that the governor appointing the board and bringing into compliance with the law isn't substantive, I'll go for another example: Bradford County Development Authority was dissolved, it no longer exists, which is a much more substantive change then RCID got.

Now can you name any district in the state that has a charter not in compliance with F.S. 189 since Florida law required them to be dissolved on June 1, 2023? I'll give you a hint, there were 6 district in the State of Florida NOT in compliance with F.S. 189 back in 2022, and they were:

• Bradford County Development Authority (Bradford County)
• Eastpoint Water and Sewer District (Franklin County)
• Hamilton County Development Authority (Hamilton County)
• Marion County Law Library (Marion County)
• Reedy Creek Improvement District (Orange and Osceola Counties)
• Sunshine Water Control District (Broward County

As far as I can tell, they were all either re-established and modified to be in compliance with F.S. 189 (RCID/CFTOD included), or they were dissolved.

Neither development authority had ad valorem taxing authority or provided any municipal services. So yeah, not nearly as substantive as becoming an appointed district with ad valorem taxing powers.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is false. Everything built within RCID, including Disney and non-Disney properties, is exempt from impact fees.

Exempt is probably not the right term as you’re not exempt from something that doesn’t exist.

 

[Unbanshee]

Which portion do you think would exempt CFTOD? It’s not a community development or water management district.

Doesn't "an independent special district created by a local act" apply to CFTOD?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Doesn't "an independent special district created by a local act" apply to CFTOD?

The clause continues to specify that it relates to independent special districts that have their powers tied to Chapter 190.

 

[lewisc]

A few posters seem to have issues including using tax exempt bonds for parking. Public parking is legit. The bonds are being paid by taxes Disney is paying instead of parking fees. Why should any of us care?

Look at the deals professional sports teams are getting to build stadiums. Economic benefits to the locale are vastly overstated

 

[Nevermore525]

A few posters seem to have issues including using tax exempt bonds for parking. Public parking is legit. The bonds are being paid by taxes Disney is paying instead of parking fees. Why should any of us car

Look at the deals professional sports teams are getting to build stadiums. Economic benefits to the locale are vastly overstated

Closest stadiums to me recently got $600M each in bonds from the state to renovate however they see fit. No restrictions on what they do with the $$.