Record profit for Disney

[jt04]

I really don't wish to wade into these waters, but man ... that is just a dumb statement.

Sure, people know going in how much they're being paid, but that does NOT mean they have a choice. Have you ever heard of Fire and Ice?

With the economy in the state it is (disaster except for the top one percent and the fools who think they'll ever be one) people are constantly FORCED into taking jobs and salaries that are way below them. And, no, it isn't fair. It is capitalism with no humanity factored in because to do so would be socialism and, remember, socialism is evil if it gets healthcare to people without it, free educations, helping the needy, BUT if it saves TOO BIG TO FAIL corrupt banking institutions and other corps, well, then it's all-American.

We live in a society where the vast majority of people don't have choices that are palatable. They just don't. I'm sure the white collar $85,000 a year employee who has been unemployed for 2 1/2 years and is working 15 hours a week at Starbucks is doing so just because they made a choice ... UGH ... I already see where this is going. Better end it.

Living off of $8-10 an hour may be fine if you are in college or a retiree or using it as a second job (especially at Disney because of the free tickets and discounts for family and friends), but it is not a liveable wage for an adult in any way, shape or form.

And to say it's all about choice is as much BS as the whole idea they we should all be 'rugged individuals' who don't need to depend on anyone (let alone the government) to help us.

~GFC~

The people are the government and vice versa. When you get help from the "government" you are actually getting it from your neighbor. Many people have chosen to forget this.

 

[jt04]

I expected that response from you. I get that you are an Atlas Shrugged hugging Social Darwinist, just wondering if you believe in biological Darwinism?(would explain a lot)

BTW the vast majority that make it to the top actually started there...

I believe in charity.

I am not a Rand acolyte. Nor a social darwinist. Darwin had doubts about his own theory.

I guess I believe in God. So did Einstein. So I am in good company.

 

[wdwmagic]

Let's keep this thread civil and open. Thanks

 

[WDWGoof07]

BTW the vast majority that make it to the top actually started there...

Wrong again...most wealthy people are self-made

 

[ptaylor]

Here's just a list off the top of my head of Disney fan sites that have been treated like press by the company and despite that, openly criticize company decisions: Stitch Kingdom, Discussion Kingdom, WDW Today, Passporter, and Pete Werner.

I'm sure others can add to that list. As for Yee and Lutz, are you sure? If Kevin is reading this, I'd love for him to chime in on the topic.

What sites have the DPB and D23 been successful in silencing?

OK I wasn't going to name them, but you have thrown a couple out there. Some of the ones you mention (they involve the words Kingdom), exactly illustrate 74's point. DK is a tiny site (of about 1 year old), with about 100 forum members, and made up of members ejected from WDWMAGIC. Do you really think they should be attending media events at Disney? They must be thrilled to get lanyards and event entry however.

 

[Hakunamatata]

BTW the vast majority that make it to the top actually started there...

Source?

 

[SyracuseOrange]

My quote button isn't working for some reason, but this is a response to WDW1974.

--

Business school 101 - it is much easier (and cheaper) to retain a current customer than it is to acquire a new one. Sure, Disney might not be pursuing a breadth strategy when courting bloggers, but they are seeking depth. People like us who snort pixie dust are MUCH more likely to pay for another trip to the World because we read on some Disney fan site about the Disney Dream, or FLE, or some other new project than a new customer who has never been to Disney is likely to book a trip.

And to Disney, that's the same profit dollar for dollar. (Excluding the fact that more "hardcore" Disney fans have APs or whatever.)

From Disney's standpoint, I'm sure they'd be thrilled to have followers of Mickey's cult continue to buy tickets on a regular basis than have to hustle (and spend a lot of money) to get new, fresh customers into the parks. Disney already has us in their hands, so they will continue nurturing us (by enticing us through well known fan podcasts, blogs, etc) as long as they can.

Easy.

 

[WDW1974]

Since Lou traveled with the owner of an Authorized Disney Vacation Planner agency, there is a strong possibility that the agency used it's reduced rates to be one of the first to be at Aulani at opening - especially since this agency is also associated with Allears.

These agencies were, and are, still being offered greatly reduced rates to Aulani so that we can familiarize ourselves with the property so we can sell it to our clients. This is standard practice in the travel industry.

I don't know who Lou traveled with. I didn't even know who the man was before last year. I suppose that should be shocking, but I don't live a Disney Lifestyle and beyond enjoying the P&R, working in media and enjoying talking/bantering with others who feel likewise, I really didn't know how large a cottage industry it has become to run a Disney Lifestyle site.

I also know a bit about reduced rates. When I did my first Disney junket in 1990, we were legit media and not allowed to take freebies (except small items and meals were fine). But since the hotel wasn't open to the general public, they could offer folks like myself 'media rates' ... I don't recall the exact figure, although somewhere in my garage I likely have the paperwork, but I stayed for somewhere in the range of $35-55 a night. Even in 1990, that was practically free.

I doubt things have changed much here with Aulani. I don't think Disney is charging TAs/media $400-plus a night or even close. I could be wrong, but I don't think so because most of the above would NOT go on a trip where they had to pay that.

Disclaimer - I am the owner of an Authorized Disney Vacation Planner agency.

A friend of Lou's?

Why shouldn't Disney court Lou and treat him well? What other personality has so many bases covered? (Only Deb Wills and her team comes close in my mind.) He's a published author, does a podcast/radio show, publishes a magazine, has a strong following on Twitter, and is also a professional speaker. He also has strong ties to other Disney sites as well as one of the top Disney-focused travel agencies.

I guess I somehow missed how important a character this dude, who comes off as a slimey snake-oil salesman is to a company the size of TWDC.

Anyone, and I know plenty, can get published today. Sadly, it doesn't mean what it once did and everyone is getting into the act (usually people who shouldn't!). A podcast? Well, I don't want to start ripping folks that give them ... but I am not a listener and I don't know many folks who listen. Again, I don't see how anyone who is a follower of Lou's is anything but a Pixie Dust addict already. How is that growing Disney's business? Are people all over the world ... or just the eastern USA listening to him and deciding to take a first trip to WDW because of him? Honestly, with the image he portrays I'd guess he'd turn people off Disney before he'd ever sell them on the company.

And public speaker? I've seen his talking point subjects and I'd love to know who would ever have him come and speak to their group.

Again, this is treading into territory I really don't wish to go into at this point, but he comes off as someone who couldn't make it in law, but decided he could turn a bombastic personality and knowledge of Disney that he could have picked up online into what is likely a very lucrative business. He's not an idiot, he figured out a way to leech off of Disney instead of getting a real job (like so many in the Disney Lifestyle business). But it doesn't change anything.

~GFC~

 

[SyracuseOrange]

I don't know who Lou traveled with. I didn't even know who the man was before last year. I suppose that should be shocking, but I don't live a Disney Lifestyle and beyond enjoying the P&R, working in media and enjoying talking/bantering with others who feel likewise, I really didn't know how large a cottage industry it has become to run a Disney Lifestyle site.

I also know a bit about reduced rates. When I did my first Disney junket in 1990, we were legit media and not allowed to take freebies (except small items and meals were fine). But since the hotel wasn't open to the general public, they could offer folks like myself 'media rates' ... I don't recall the exact figure, although somewhere in my garage I likely have the paperwork, but I stayed for somewhere in the range of $35-55 a night. Even in 1990, that was practically free.

I doubt things have changed much here with Aulani. I don't think Disney is charging TAs/media $400-plus a night or even close. I could be wrong, but I don't think so because most of the above would NOT go on a trip where they had to pay that.



A friend of Lou's?



I guess I somehow missed how important a character this dude, who comes off as a slimey snake-oil salesman is to a company the size of TWDC.

Anyone, and I know plenty, can get published today. Sadly, it doesn't mean what it once did and everyone is getting into the act (usually people who shouldn't!). A podcast? Well, I don't want to start ripping folks that give them ... but I am not a listener and I don't know many folks who listen. Again, I don't see how anyone who is a follower of Lou's is anything but a Pixie Dust addict already. How is that growing Disney's business? Are people all over the world ... or just the eastern USA listening to him and deciding to take a first trip to WDW because of him? Honestly, with the image he portrays I'd guess he'd turn people off Disney before he'd ever sell them on the company.

And public speaker? I've seen his talking point subjects and I'd love to know who would ever have him come and speak to their group.

Again, this is treading into territory I really don't wish to go into at this point, but he comes off as someone who couldn't make it in law, but decided he could turn a bombastic personality and knowledge of Disney that he could have picked up online into what is likely a very lucrative business. He's not an idiot, he figured out a way to leech off of Disney instead of getting a real job (like so many in the Disney Lifestyle business). But it doesn't change anything.

~GFC~

It doesn't need to be first time guests. See above. I for one am planning to book another trip down to Disneyland Paris soon because of something I read about on a blog, even though I've been there before. That's why they do this.

 

[WDWFigment]

OK I wasn't going to name them, but you have thrown a couple out there. Some of the ones you mention (they involve the words Kingdom), exactly illustrate 74's point. DK is a tiny site (of about 1 year old), with about 100 forum members, and made up of members ejected from WDWMAGIC. Do you really think they should be attending media events at Disney? They must be thrilled to get lanyards and event entry however.

Please share DK's traffic numbers and also the events and/or comps/freebies to which they didn't merit an invitation/receiving.

Based on your plural reference to the Kingdom sites, I assume you're also implying that Stitch Kingdom doesn't have considerable traffic. Is that correct?

 

[SyracuseOrange]

Please share DK's traffic numbers and also the events and/or comps/freebies to which they didn't merit an invitation/receiving.

Based on your plural reference to the Kingdom sites, I assume you're also implying that Stitch Kingdom doesn't have considerable traffic. Is that correct?

Tom, I'd recommend looking at Alexa.com to evaluate the traffic of these sites. They don't show exact figures for some sites, (but you can compare their incoming links, traffic ranking, bounce rates, search analytics, etc) of these sites.

For example, your blog gets most of its search traffic from people searching "disney blog tom and sarah" - but I'm sure you already know that

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Going to reiterate Steve's post, please keep it civil in this thread.

 

[WDW1974]

My response to this is: SEO.

Many of the Disney fan sites have better SEO for important keywords than do huge mainstream sites. Also because of SEO multiple sites are not reaching the exact same audience. At least no more than the travel writers for the New York Times and Washington Post reach the same audience. Because of SEO, Disney is reaching new consumers with these strategies.

Well, Tom, maybe I'm just an old fart who reads multiple newspapers daily (some actually in paper form), magazines and is about to watch the NBC Nightly News. Maybe I'm just not hip enough with the times (although I kinda think I am).

I think plenty of people with ponies in the race are telling Disney that SEO is showing that Mommy Bloggers are getting more eyes than disneyworld.com and tripadvisor.com etc. And that because of these alleged metrics, Disney is somehow getting new audiences.

Shell Holtz would buy that. Of course, he is highly paid by Disney to tell them that.

Josh Hallett would buy that. Of course, he is highly paid by Disney to tell them that.

The whole point is people have been convinced at Disney that the most important audience (and the ONLY one Disney should be concerned about) is the Mommies.

They sit at home planning trips for years, while Daddy is off working and through the wonders of the blogosphere, they can share their tips for best character breakfast for a toddler, best moderate resort when the inlaws are coming, should I rent DVC points or just book with Disney etc.

I have yet to see any real data (or more importantly HEAR from the folks I work with at high levels of the media and entertainment industries) that Disney is growing its business by pandering to these people (and let's be BLUNT, the reason the original social media thread someplace else got closed was because I outed -- not that he was exactly in the closet -- Disney's Latino Papi Blogger social media experiment and that I accused him of exploiting his kids to do so). I was told as much by a kind Spirit in the building held up by Snow's little pals!:king:

We can go back and forth on this (after I emailed and told ya I wouldn't! ... I wish you were going to DL a little later, so we could discuss in person and I could be a little blunter!) but my mind isn't going to be changed at this point (if ever).

I don't like what Disney is doing and how it is doing so. Even going so far as to let some people break policies while sending lawyers after others doing likewise.

You think I could give tours at WDW because I'd like to make a few grand a week just hanging in theme parks? I'll take a break from real work for that. You want in? I need a good photographer to make my website pop!:drevil:

Or do you think Disney Security would come up to me on my first tour for absolutely no reason except I'm the one giving the tours?

I still have yet to see an example of website with little to no traffic receiving the huge comps you've indicated they receive. I've heard of more prominent ones receiving lesser-comps, but that's it.

I don't have a list handy. I'm sorry. If I had Disney's official invite list for the Dream launch, I'd put it up here (and it would last all of 30 seconds before Disney Legal contacts Steve and demands it gets taken down, even though there would be no real reason for it except Disney doesn't want people to know how it conducts business).

Disney spent millions and millions on that week. Flying people in from all over the world, putting them up at WDW, feeding them, giving them free tix, meals, swag, parties etc ... then took them on a debut cruise for free ... and then sent them home.

If you're suggesting that only prominent sites got invited then you'd likely be talking about only a few dozen (at most) cabins being occupied.

I'm not about to go do research (I am NOT paid for this as a very intelligent dude reminded me recently!) and start putting names with sites and trying to figure out if they had four nights at the GF or two at WL etc.

Disney is very good at keeping what it gives to whom quiet. That's why when you attend a junket, Disney has about five different intineraries plotted out, so some people don't even realize that their 'three day trip' is really a '10 day trip' for others. That's why their official MEDIA website doesn't ever mention any junkets, announcements, parties etc ... because they don't want people contacting them (yes, even the very media they are there to serve/work with). Disney will contact the people it wants to ... and even in the good, old days, it was always that way.

When they do the Fantasy launch this spring, you won't know about anything unless you are invited.

If you are, then you'll have all the URLs and passwords to go to a SECRET website for the event (which you'd never know was happening otherwise).

I don't know if you're intentionally choosing to ignore certain aspects of online business development, or if you actually don't understand it, but you're certainly reducing what's happening to its most basic terms, and also misstating it.

I don't work in online business development and I think much of its importance is greatly overstated ... much like the value of FB and Twitter. I am sure you understand more about it, if only because you're about 12-15 years younger than me, I believe.

But, yes, I am reducing it to its basics because I think that's the best place to have the discussion.

I think many people want to get in on the Disney Lifestyle gravy train before it leaves the station (and it will ... because many of the 'results' are about as tangible and real as statements from Bernie Madoff).

I can understand objecting to Disney's strategy from a perspective that these fan-site writers don't present as balanced or vetted an analysis as a professional journalist (I don't agree, but I see your point), but the other arguments you're advancing about the strategy not leading to growth are inaccurate.

That's fine. You can disagree. You're wrong, but you can disagree

I have to run in a bit and actually get back to more important things, but the idea that a fanboi/bored housewife/mommy/papi blogger (not counting Manny the PR Pro) is equal with a seasoned journalist just isn't the case. Seasoned journalists don't wet themselves because Tony Baxter or Marty Sklar talks to them ... they don't build shrines in their homes to their Disney 'creddentials' ... they don't really believe that Disney's publicity hacks are ever their 'friends' ... they are fans and in varying degrees that is what comes through. A real journalist might HATE Disney, but still be able to be unbiased about a certain Disney product. A Disney blogger starts from a position of loving all that is Mouseworthy. It takes a helluva lot (or treating their mortal enemy in the Twitterverse better) for them to even begin to take a negative turn.

As to the strategy leading to new business, I've yet to hear one media pro (who doesn't have a vested interest in pushing social media) say that Disney is significantly, if at all, growing its business this way.

~GFC~

 

[WDWFigment]

Tom, I'd recommend looking at Alexa.com to evaluate the traffic of these sites. They don't show exact figures for some sites, (but you can compare their incoming links, traffic ranking, bounce rates, search analytics, etc) of these sites.

For example, your blog gets most of its search traffic from people searching "disney blog tom and sarah" - but I'm sure you already know that

As I stated earlier in the thread, Alexa.com is incredibly inaccurate.

My site gets very little traffic from the above-referenced search query or variants thereof. In fact, Alexa.com is wrong about almost everything it states about my site.

 

[WDW1974]

I think this would be a good time to address something. Those of us who criticize the way WDW is currently run DO NOT HATE WDW. On the contrary We care deeply about WDW and know it can be better. We are angry about how WDW is being run, not because we hate the place.
It is like as if saying that anyone who criticizes the government hates America.

True on all counts.

If you love something, then you don't just desert it because it has its issues.

That's kinda insane!

So, FWIW, I love the USA ... I love WDW ... I do NOT approve of the Walmarted direction they are taking and the lack of true leadership in both.

So, I'll keep on complaining until there's nothing worth complaining about!

~GFC~

 

[SyracuseOrange]

As I stated earlier in the thread, Alexa.com is incredibly inaccurate.

My site gets very little traffic from the above-referenced search query or variants thereof. In fact, Alexa.com is wrong about almost everything it states about my site.

(I didn't read the whole thread, whoops.)

And interesting because most of the data that Alexa shows about my sites is generally true.

 

[WDWFigment]

Well, Tom, maybe I'm just an old fart who reads multiple newspapers daily (some actually in paper form), magazines and is about to watch the NBC Nightly News. Maybe I'm just not hip enough with the times (although I kinda think I am).

I think plenty of people with ponies in the race are telling Disney that SEO is showing that Mommy Bloggers are getting more eyes than disneyworld.com and tripadvisor.com etc. And that because of these alleged metrics, Disney is somehow getting new audiences.

Shell Holtz would buy that. Of course, he is highly paid by Disney to tell them that.

Josh Hallett would buy that. Of course, he is highly paid by Disney to tell them that.

The whole point is people have been convinced at Disney that the most important audience (and the ONLY one Disney should be concerned about) is the Mommies.

They sit at home planning trips for years, while Daddy is off working and through the wonders of the blogosphere, they can share their tips for best character breakfast for a toddler, best moderate resort when the inlaws are coming, should I rent DVC points or just book with Disney etc.

I have yet to see any real data (or more importantly HEAR from the folks I work with at high levels of the media and entertainment industries) that Disney is growing its business by pandering to these people (and let's be BLUNT, the reason the original social media thread someplace else got closed was because I outed -- not that he was exactly in the closet -- Disney's Latino Papi Blogger social media experiment and that I accused him of exploiting his kids to do so). I was told as much by a kind Spirit in the building held up by Snow's little pals!:king:

We can go back and forth on this (after I emailed and told ya I wouldn't! ... I wish you were going to DL a little later, so we could discuss in person and I could be a little blunter!) but my mind isn't going to be changed at this point (if ever).

I don't like what Disney is doing and how it is doing so. Even going so far as to let some people break policies while sending lawyers after others doing likewise.

You think I could give tours at WDW because I'd like to make a few grand a week just hanging in theme parks? I'll take a break from real work for that. You want in? I need a good photographer to make my website pop!:drevil:

Or do you think Disney Security would come up to me on my first tour for absolutely no reason except I'm the one giving the tours?



I don't have a list handy. I'm sorry. If I had Disney's official invite list for the Dream launch, I'd put it up here (and it would last all of 30 seconds before Disney Legal contacts Steve and demands it gets taken down, even though there would be no real reason for it except Disney doesn't want people to know how it conducts business).

Disney spent millions and millions on that week. Flying people in from all over the world, putting them up at WDW, feeding them, giving them free tix, meals, swag, parties etc ... then took them on a debut cruise for free ... and then sent them home.

If you're suggesting that only prominent sites got invited then you'd likely be talking about only a few dozen (at most) cabins being occupied.

I'm not about to go do research (I am NOT paid for this as a very intelligent dude reminded me recently!) and start putting names with sites and trying to figure out if they had four nights at the GF or two at WL etc.

Disney is very good at keeping what it gives to whom quiet. That's why when you attend a junket, Disney has about five different intineraries plotted out, so some people don't even realize that their 'three day trip' is really a '10 day trip' for others. That's why their official MEDIA website doesn't ever mention any junkets, announcements, parties etc ... because they don't want people contacting them (yes, even the very media they are there to serve/work with). Disney will contact the people it wants to ... and even in the good, old days, it was always that way.

When they do the Fantasy launch this spring, you won't know about anything unless you are invited.

If you are, then you'll have all the URLs and passwords to go to a SECRET website for the event (which you'd never know was happening otherwise).



I don't work in online business development and I think much of its importance is greatly overstated ... much like the value of FB and Twitter. I am sure you understand more about it, if only because you're about 12-15 years younger than me, I believe.

But, yes, I am reducing it to its basics because I think that's the best place to have the discussion.

I think many people want to get in on the Disney Lifestyle gravy train before it leaves the station (and it will ... because many of the 'results' are about as tangible and real as statements from Bernie Madoff).



That's fine. You can disagree. You're wrong, but you can disagree

I have to run in a bit and actually get back to more important things, but the idea that a fanboi/bored housewife/mommy/papi blogger (not counting Manny the PR Pro) is equal with a seasoned journalist just isn't the case. Seasoned journalists don't wet themselves because Tony Baxter or Marty Sklar talks to them ... they don't build shrines in their homes to their Disney 'creddentials' ... they don't really believe that Disney's publicity hacks are ever their 'friends' ... they are fans and in varying degrees that is what comes through. A real journalist might HATE Disney, but still be able to be unbiased about a certain Disney product. A Disney blogger starts from a position of loving all that is Mouseworthy. It takes a helluva lot (or treating their mortal enemy in the Twitterverse better) for them to even begin to take a negative turn.

As to the strategy leading to new business, I've yet to hear one media pro (who doesn't have a vested interest in pushing social media) say that Disney is significantly, if at all, growing its business this way.

~GFC~

Hopefully this thread will still be around next week, because I don't have time to type a response to this right now (although I didn't have time to type the last TWO responses, either!) as I need to pack and put together a coffee table before the wife gets home.

For right now, though, I will enjoy being wrong as I go pack. I hear it's already Christmas in Disneyland! :xmas:

 

[WDWFigment]

(I didn't read the whole thread, whoops.)

And interesting because most of the data that Alexa shows about my sites is generally true.

Alexa is accurate to the extent that users have its toolbar installed. It is no substitute for Google Analytics. Not even close.

Google "Alexa.com accuracy" for a more thorough discussion on the topic.

 

[SyracuseOrange]

Alexa is accurate to the extent that users have its toolbar installed. It is no substitute for Google Analytics. Not even close.

Google "Alexa.com accuracy" for a more thorough discussion on the topic.

I will agree with that. And I know that people frequently slam Alexa's accuracy (I work in the biz...) but I'm just saying personally, it's generally accurate for the domains I own.

 

[ptaylor]

Please share DK's traffic numbers and also the events and/or comps/freebies to which they didn't merit an invitation/receiving.

Based on your plural reference to the Kingdom sites, I assume you're also implying that Stitch Kingdom doesn't have considerable traffic. Is that correct?

As I stated earlier in the thread, Alexa.com is incredibly inaccurate.

My site gets very little traffic from the above-referenced search query or variants thereof. In fact, Alexa.com is wrong about almost everything it states about my site.

I'm involved in internet ad buying and web development, so I look at these types of issues daily.

Without gaining access to a site's log files I can't give you exact traffic numbers. However, I can look at the site and make some conclusions about its traffic and reach.

The site includes stats about visitors in the last 24 hours. Typically this is around 100 visitors who are registered. Let us multiply that by 10 to allow for unregistered users (which is probably generous). That gives us around 1000 visitors per day. Looking at the posting history on their forums, it is all repeat visits. So I would be willing to bet they have a core of repeat visitors of of between 100 and 1000.

Their Alexa ranking is in the irrelevant zone. Yes Alexa is not deadly accurate, but in my experience (and I have a lot of it), it is a very good guide in most cases. Good enough to form part of my opinion.

Their Twitter following is small, as is their Facebook.

The overall picture tells me the site is not relevant in terms of wide reach.

Infact, when it comes to WDW fan sites, there are only about 5 or 6 that are relevent in terms of large reach.

To answer your question about which events they do not warrant an invite for - that would be all of them. As the site is not significant in expanding Disney's reach, they have gained nothing from this site. It is therefore a waste of money inviting them.

Far too any people these days think they can throw up a word press site and become some major force in their respective areas overnight. It doesn't work like that when things get serious.