Record profit for Disney

[jt04]

I also have lived on that if not a little less, heck anything is possible if you are willing to eat soup and walk to work. Afford an apartment, health care, a car, car insurance, food, electricity, it is almost impossible(at least here in NJ, where a 1 bedroom goes for $1000+/mo).

I think the vast majority see such jobs as transitional steps and not a long term solution. If necessary sometimes people need to relocate to areas where jobs are available that have promotion possibilities.

 

[HMF]

But I'd love to know this guy you're talking about who is 90% negative about Disney, but still gets invited. First, I'm shocked that anyone could be that negative and involved in a Disney Lifestyle. (I do realize that some slow folks may think I'm that negative or worse when it comes to Disney or WDW and I'm not even close to that!)

~GFC~

I think this would be a good time to address something. Those of us who criticize the way WDW is currently run DO NOT HATE WDW. On the contrary We care deeply about WDW and know it can be better. We are angry about how WDW is being run, not because we hate the place.
It is like as if saying that anyone who criticizes the government hates America.

 

[WDW1974]

I followed that (those, actually) threads from afar, and I can tell you that the level of misinformation in them was incredibly high.

Really? Then you should have stepped in and offered your perspective and any info that might have shed light on said subject.

Many bloggers/podcasters receiving perks are frequently negative towards Disney.

I don't want to sound like my 'buddy' Jakeman, but I'd love to know who they are. Because I don't follow them like some people, so indeed I might be missing some people who I'd actually enjoy listening to or reading ... and because the only times I ever see them complaining about Disney is usually when they are left out of something or when one blogger gets five nights at the GF while another gets two at POP and they start going back and forth in the Twitterverse. I also believe much of this is done as passive aggressive threats to Disney that they can be quite nasty toward Mickey IF they aren't treated better. They apparently don't understand the media/PR game and that Disney can simply refuse to invite them or cooperate with them. They aren't NBC ... they aren't the NY Times ... they aren't USA Today etc.

I don't see any of the folks that I'd term 'whores' complaining about anything unless they don't get their way in the payolla/access/invite department.

"Conspiracy theory" is a pejorative term for a reason. That's exactly what this is.

I don't have any theories here, Tom.

I KNOW that Disney created D23 and The Disney Parks Blog as methods of ripping apart the fan community and killing as many sites that skew to balanced (they'd call them negative) reporting on Disney. They've been quite successful. And I'm sure they'll only get better results moving ahead. They didn't do so because they love their fans and want to engage in a dialog with them.

I recall being at an event at WDW about 8-9 years ago when a top WDC official said of online bloggers (I don't think they had podcasts back then, but I am no techo geek) 'we'll never have THOSE people at our events' ... well said official is still a Disney exec and THOSE people have begun ruling the roost.

Disney is actively paying people for coverage by giving them free trips, swag and special access ... and it is making sure it isn't balanced coverage ... ask Al Lutz and Kevin Yee (two of the most legit personalities online) where their credentials are.

You may not like the term, but what would you call it? (please don't tell me that it's simply good business and that's what ALL companies do).

~GFC~

 

[jakeman]

I don't think it serves much purpose to list names ... because invariably your discussion will become a referendum or either what a great person this is and what a service they do as the living embodiment of the spirit of Walt ... or they'll just be called a good old-fashioned .

As someone who has been invited to events in the past as both media (legit) and VIP, there were always a few folks from small organizations that I wondered why they were there ... until I saw their 'coverage' ... so there have always been folks willing to put out PR talking points in exchange for free trips, swag and chances to drool on Dave Smith.:hurl:

And I go way back with Disney events as the first I attended was in 1990 for the opening of the WDW Dolphin Hotel and the new attractions at The Disney-MGM Studios.

But I'd love to know this guy you're talking about who is 90% negative about Disney, but still gets invited. First, I'm shocked that anyone could be that negative and involved in a Disney Lifestyle. (I do realize that some slow folks may think I'm that negative or worse when it comes to Disney or WDW and I'm not even close to that!) ... Then, I would wonder why Disney keeps inviting him back because he isn't legit media and they don't have to ... unless he keeps sending them enough business through his TA ... but, frankly, it all sounds fishy to me.

~GFC~

Just so we are clear, you deem that this is a big enough problem that it is an active effort to undermine the quality of the Disney brand in Florida and needs to be "discussed".

Yet you are not going to list websites, bloggers, and twitter accounts who are perpetrating a biased opinion towards Disney products in an attempt by TWDC to undermine true objective evaluation.

If this is such the problem that you seem to think it is, I would think that you, as a concerned fan about the quality of the Disney product, would want to see these sites taken to task over their, in what seems to be your opinion, unethical behavior.

So I ask again, if it is a big enough problem that you shoehorn it into every conversation, then name the websites, bloggers, and twitter accounts that receive benefits from Disney in exchange for positive reviews of their products.

Lastly:

but I'd love to know who they are

Does not match with

because the only times I ever see them complaining about Disney is usually when they are left out of something

 

[jt04]

I think this would be a good time to address something. Those of us who criticize the way WDW is currently run DO NOT HATE WDW. On the contrary We care deeply about WDW and know it can be better. We are angry about how WDW is being run, not because we hate the place.
It is like as if saying that anyone who criticizes the government hates America.

Judging by the crowds your take is that of a very small minority of opinion.

Tiny. Almost microscopic.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Seriously, you are going to give me a link from the Heritage Foundation?!? Their information isn't too bias.

I love their statistics: 70% of all "poor" people have a VCR...great and what's that 99.7% actually own a fridge.

Of course we live better than we did 100 years ago and yes most Americans live better than sub-sahara Africa.

I am definately happy to know that almost all Americans can afford their dollar menu dinner and pay their cable bills...AKA pablum for the masses

And drive around on $5000 rims in their Escelades...........:wave:

 

[njDizFan]

I think the vast majority see such jobs as transitional steps and not a long term solution. If necessary sometimes people need to relocate to areas where jobs are available that have promotion possibilities.

That is fairly accurate. If your society or your parents taught you anything, life is going to be more difficult without a good education. You will have to suffer lower wage jobs and take longer to move up the ladder.

I don't think it's fair to ask someone to move away from their home in order to make an additional couple of dollars per hour.

 

[WDWFigment]

Really? Then you should have stepped in and offered your perspective and any info that might have shed light on said subject.



I don't want to sound like my 'buddy' Jakeman, but I'd love to know who they are. Because I don't follow them like some people, so indeed I might be missing some people who I'd actually enjoy listening to or reading ... and because the only times I ever see them complaining about Disney is usually when they are left out of something or when one blogger gets five nights at the GF while another gets two at POP and they start going back and forth in the Twitterverse. I also believe much of this is done as passive aggressive threats to Disney that they can be quite nasty toward Mickey IF they aren't treated better. They apparently don't understand the media/PR game and that Disney can simply refuse to invite them or cooperate with them. They aren't NBC ... they aren't the NY Times ... they aren't USA Today etc.

I don't see any of the folks that I'd term 'whores' complaining about anything unless they don't get their way in the payolla/access/invite department.



I don't have any theories here, Tom.

I KNOW that Disney created D23 and The Disney Parks Blog as methods of ripping apart the fan community and killing as many sites that skew to balanced (they'd call them negative) reporting on Disney. They've been quite successful. And I'm sure they'll only get better results moving ahead. They didn't do so because they love their fans and want to engage in a dialog with them.

I recall being at an event at WDW about 8-9 years ago when a top WDC official said of online bloggers (I don't think they had podcasts back then, but I am no techo geek) 'we'll never have THOSE people at our events' ... well said official is still a Disney exec and THOSE people have begun ruling the roost.

Disney is actively paying people for coverage by giving them free trips, swag and special access ... and it is making sure it isn't balanced coverage ... ask Al Lutz and Kevin Yee (two of the most legit personalities online) where their credentials are.

You may not like the term, but what would you call it? (please don't tell me that it's simply good business and that's what ALL companies do).

~GFC~

Here's just a list off the top of my head of Disney fan sites that have been treated like press by the company and despite that, openly criticize company decisions: Stitch Kingdom, Discussion Kingdom, WDW Today, Passporter, and Pete Werner.

I'm sure others can add to that list. As for Yee and Lutz, are you sure? If Kevin is reading this, I'd love for him to chime in on the topic.

What sites have the DPB and D23 been successful in silencing?

 

[WDW1974]

The economy was not exactly flying high in 2008 or 2009.

To attempt to get back on the original topic, THAT is a great point.

Again, people want to read into the results of the company as a whole (which is doing quite well right now) about WDW.

P&R operating profit for FY'11 is 18% lower than for FY'08 ... and everyone knows just how bad a year that was. It's not like they're comparing results to a record year for P&R.

IF Disney wasn't doing two things: 1 Constantly raising prices; and 2.) Almost constantly discounting; it is pretty safe to say the numbers would be much, much worse. That means you have a vicious cycle of constant cutting and nickle and diming and then discounting, which harms the BRAND in the long term.

And what is Disney doing to attract new guests to WDW? Building more hotel rooms and timeshares (which will in turn lead to more discounting).

~Spirited Hating Disney Coast to Coast Tour: December 2011~:xmas:

 

[Hakunamatata]

I don't think it's fair to ask someone to move away from their home in order to make an additional couple of dollars per hour.

Tell that to the pioneers that settled the plains and western states.

 

[jt04]

That is fairly accurate. If your society or your parents taught you anything, life is going to be more difficult without a good education. You will have to suffer lower wage jobs and take longer to move up the ladder.

I don't think it's fair to ask someone to move away from their home in order to make an additional couple of dollars per hour.

Fair? Sorry we are fresh out of "fair" police. You are responsible for your hapiness. Not your parents, not your teachers, not your employer, not your favorite theme park. A hard but necessary truth to grasp.

People have been climbing that ladder for years. The vast majority start with little and make their way. It is just the way of things. It is not easy making your way in a free society but it is far better than the alternative. Trust me I have seen the alternative to freedom. You do not want that.

 

[WDWGoof07]

I think this would be a good time to address something. Those of us who criticize the way WDW is currently run DO NOT HATE WDW. On the contrary We care deeply about WDW and know it can be better. We are angry about how WDW is being run, not because we hate the place.
It is like as if saying that anyone who criticizes the government hates America.

You're preaching to the choir...

 

[njDizFan]

Tell that to the pioneers that settled the plains and western states.

So your arguement is that in the 1800's people had to do more to survive...ahh yeah

How's this for a straw man arguement...we should keep that mentality and not allow women to vote and bring back slavery.

 

[WDWGoof07]

I don't think it's fair to ask someone to move away from their home in order to make an additional couple of dollars per hour.

I don't think it's fair of you to ask that everyone else support a lifestyle you feel entitled to just because you are unwilling to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.

 

[Hakunamatata]

So your arguement is that in the 1800's people had to do more to survive...ahh yeah

How's this for a straw man arguement...we should keep that mentality and not allow women to vote and bring back slavery.

Typical lack of substance response.

 

[jt04]

So your arguement is that in the 1800's people had to do more to survive...ahh yeah

How's this for a straw man arguement...we should keep that mentality and not allow women to vote and bring back slavery.

Former slaves were part of opening the west. I think he was giving it as an example of the extroidinary things free people can achieve. That spirit can't be crushed. Make it your own.

Have you seen "American Adventure" at Epcot?

 

[WDW1974]

I think a lot of these points would carry more weight if we lived in a society where you had no choice where to work. But in my opinion is that since you apply to work at Disney for a job that you know what the pay is going in, don't complain that it's not fair.

I constantly tell my kids that fairness is a state of perception and is rarely based on fact.

I really don't wish to wade into these waters, but man ... that is just a dumb statement.

Sure, people know going in how much they're being paid, but that does NOT mean they have a choice. Have you ever heard of Fire and Ice?

With the economy in the state it is (disaster except for the top one percent and the fools who think they'll ever be one) people are constantly FORCED into taking jobs and salaries that are way below them. And, no, it isn't fair. It is capitalism with no humanity factored in because to do so would be socialism and, remember, socialism is evil if it gets healthcare to people without it, free educations, helping the needy, BUT if it saves TOO BIG TO FAIL corrupt banking institutions and other corps, well, then it's all-American.

We live in a society where the vast majority of people don't have choices that are palatable. They just don't. I'm sure the white collar $85,000 a year employee who has been unemployed for 2 1/2 years and is working 15 hours a week at Starbucks is doing so just because they made a choice ... UGH ... I already see where this is going. Better end it.

Living off of $8-10 an hour may be fine if you are in college or a retiree or using it as a second job (especially at Disney because of the free tickets and discounts for family and friends), but it is not a liveable wage for an adult in any way, shape or form.

And to say it's all about choice is as much BS as the whole idea they we should all be 'rugged individuals' who don't need to depend on anyone (let alone the government) to help us.

~GFC~

 

[jakeman]

I really don't wish to wade into these waters, but man ... that is just a dumb statement.

Sure, people know going in how much they're being paid, but that does NOT mean they have a choice. Have you ever heard of Fire and Ice?

With the economy in the state it is (disaster except for the top one percent and the fools who think they'll ever be one) people are constantly FORCED into taking jobs and salaries that are way below them. And, no, it isn't fair. It is capitalism with no humanity factored in because to do so would be socialism and, remember, socialism is evil if it gets healthcare to people without it, free educations, helping the needy, BUT if it saves TOO BIG TO FAIL corrupt banking institutions and other corps, well, then it's all-American.

We live in a society where the vast majority of people don't have choices that are palatable. They just don't. I'm sure the white collar $85,000 a year employee who has been unemployed for 2 1/2 years and is working 15 hours a week at Starbucks is doing so just because they made a choice ... UGH ... I already see where this is going. Better end it.

Living off of $8-10 an hour may be fine if you are in college or a retiree or using it as a second job (especially at Disney because of the free tickets and discounts for family and friends), but it is not a liveable wage for an adult in any way, shape or form.

And to say it's all about choice is as much BS as the whole idea they we should all be 'rugged individuals' who don't need to depend on anyone (let alone the government) to help us.

~GFC~

Oh look...a rant.

Still no names though right?

 

[njDizFan]

Fair? Sorry we are fresh out of "fair" police. You are responsible for your hapiness. Not your parents, not your teachers, not your employer, not your favorite theme park. A hard but necessary truth to grasp.

People have been climbing that ladder for years. The vast majority start with little and make their way. It is just the way of things. It is not easy making your way in a free society but it is far better than the alternative. Trust me I have seen the alternative to freedom. You do not want that.

I expected that response from you. I get that you are an Atlas Shrugged hugging Social Darwinist, just wondering if you believe in biological Darwinism?(would explain a lot)

BTW the vast majority that make it to the top actually started there...

 

[Hakunamatata]

I really don't wish to wade into these waters, but man ...

~GFC~

Could have stopped there but you didn't.


~OCS~