Really, REALLY bad decisions...

[sbkline]

I think one of the biggest mistakes the Disney Company has been making as a whole for many years now is continually aiming more and more of their offerings at children, especially at the parks. This is not what Walt Disney ever wanted to do. Disneyland in particular was created as a place that people other than children could enjoy. "For the whole family" should not read as "created for children." Mom and Dad and Aunt Bessie and Grandma and even Great Grandpa should have plenty of attractions and offerings aimed at them too. The parks used to be that way, but more and more it's about Character Meals, Character Meet & Greets, Character based attractions, merchandise just for kids, play areas just for toddlers. When was the last time they created an attraction that you actually needed more than a 1st grade education to grasp?

Exactly! :sohappy: That's pretty much what I was referring to when I mentioned the "dumbing down" of rides. Back in the day, Epcot used to actually be aimed more at educational, intellectual content, with a serious presentation of the Earth's environment and the cultures of the world.

Now, in an effort to cater to the kiddies, we have to dumb down the rides with friggin' cartoon characters. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I want El Rio del Tempo back. I can overlook "The Seas with Nemo" to a degree since the main attraction (the aquariums) are still there...they just have a different (and dumbed down) preshow which gets you there. But both are examples of straying from the original intent of the Epcot park just to dumb the joint down to appeal to the children.

And I won't even bother talking about Disney's cable channels...

Okay, gotta disagree with you there! This soon to be 32 year old man and his 28 year old wife enjoy Hannah Montana and Suite Life of Zach and Cody, thank you very much! :lol:

 

[Zummi Gummi]

You're right, people dying on an attraction is certainly underserved bad press. Disney puts a ride in that spins people around violently and then are surprised when it opens that people are throwing up.

I need to jump here...both of the people who died on Mission:Space should never have been on the ride in the first place. Even in its early stages (before Team Orange and Green), it was made VERY clear who should and should not ride Mission:Space.

 

[tirian]

My two cents (intended as suggestions for improvement, not a gripe-fest):

>> Gearing WDW advertisements only towards children was a huge mistake that they are starting to realize.

>> The generic merchandise throughout all the parks is an example of good intentions gone bad. I understand the thinking behind it--make the most popular merchandise easier for Guests to obtain. But as a result, it is very difficult to purchase park-related merch anywhere but AK. And Disney is not selling as much merchandise as they used to, either. The merch from 2006-2007 was not successful, and most of it is in Cast Connection now.

>> AK is unfinished. Half of it feels EXACTLY like a zoo, and the other half consists of two E-tickets and a fabulous stage show. The stuff that's at AK is great, but there isn't enough to do!

>> WDW needs to change to avoid becoming a museum, but too many changes--Stitch, for example--are done without much regard to quality. For every Soarin' or E:E, there is an outdated UoE, Tiki Room, Sounds Dangerous, Stitch, MLF, etc. This trend, however, has changed recently.

>> It's too late now, but the transportation system should have been better planned. I don't expect every hotel to be a monorail stop, but I refuse to believe that the busses don't cost just as much as an automatic monorail system over the long-term investment. Ideally, each resort area would have its own monorail line that connected to two main stations--the TTC for MK/EC and another one for DHS/AK. This would be much more efficient than diesel-guzzling busses + staffing. Now that the busses are being replaced with "green" models, Disney is really spending a lot of money that could have been saved years ago with a better transportation investment. (Of course, monorails are now about 1 million $$ per mile, so a larger system will probably never be built).

>> Finally, there should be a People Mover system behind the WS in Epcot for Cast Members to quickly get around without waiting on a bus! :sohappy:

>> EDIT: Too many restrictions were placed on WDI in the late 90s and early 2000s, and WDW management became so comfortable with the status quo that they failed to invest into long-term strategies for substantial growth. Need kids rides in AK? Throw in some carnival attractions! Epcot needs to be updated? Leave the wand up and hope it makes Guests ignore the closed attractions! Did 9/11 cause a dip in tourism? Stop refurbing attractions and let them rot so much that they have to be frantically restored toward the end of the decade!

Thankfully, these problems have been addressed and are improving, but no one can deny that most decisions made in that time period hurt the resort.

 

[landauh]

>> EDIT: Too many restrictions were placed on WDI in the late 90s and early 2000s, and WDW management became so comfortable with the status quo that they failed to invest into long-term strategies for substantial growth.

Not so sure this was an acceptance of the status quo as much as it was trying to survive without getting in hot water with the upper management in Burbank.

Thankfully, these problems have been addressed and are improving, but no one can deny that most decisions made in that time period hurt the resort.

I agree with problems being addressed. I see it every night ... painters and carpenters are working on everything and broken/damaged items are being repaired/replaced. I believe the problem is the same with most changes in the world today ... not fast enough.

 

[BwanaBob]

And your point is? I never even discussed Winnie The Pooh. I happen to like it.

Winnie The Pooh took the place of Toad. That's the point he was making. Toad did not draw nowhere near as much during last 4 years it operated.

It's well known that GM has never been happy with this attraction. Keep in mind too that it's one of 2 thrill rides in all of Epcot so those who like the thrills will of course try it out.

Regardless of Sponsorship feelings, the fact that was being pointed out was it is popular, and not just amongst thrill-seekers. It suprises me that for the current throughput, any sponsor wouldn't want to jump on that pavillion. I see something similiar to an auto/insurance company looking to take over sponsorship in the future...just makes sense.

You're right, people dying on an attraction is certainly underserved bad press. Disney puts a ride in that spins people around violently and then are surprised when it opens that people are throwing up.

That comment was way slanted, biased, and false. To date, Disney never came out and said 'We don't understand why there's such a fuss...'
Disney is very good about posting warnings. It was poor decisions made on behalf of guests. (still is!)

Are you even vaguely familiar with what an opinion is? I stated my opinion and then asked for others. You're talking about attendance and money figures. Dude, I stated my opinion. If you tell me (for example) that you think it was a mistake that Captain EO was removed but then I come back with the fact that Honey I Shrunk The Audience has maintained crowds all these years blah blah blah.. what difference does that make? It's your opinion.

He was pointing out the fact that 'we', all 35,000 members, are but a small representation of mostly 'more-than-normal-fans' of the parks. Attendance, throughput on attractions, and money speak volumes. It is very difficult to say things with a broad-brush when facts show otherwise.
I may not have taken Enderikari's orig post the way it was intended (would not have been a first for me on these boards), but there is a lot of truth to what he has pointed out.

We all need to just calm down and respect the fact that we may not like choices Disney made, but then again we aren't the majority.

...and yes...we are very opinionated!

(and for the record, Enderikari was not a custodial CM, or a bus driver... He does have some clout.)

 

[Now Is The Time]

I need to jump here...both of the people who died on Mission:Space should never have been on the ride in the first place. Even in its early stages (before Team Orange and Green)

Yes but my point is this. Just because Disney puts out all kinds of warning signs about an attraction, that does not mean they should not be held accountable. You make a ride that simulates space travel, with huge amounts of force and exertion that the human body goes through.. if as a company you make the choice to build such an attraction, you can't expect to simply put warning signs out and then fold your arms and say "Well, that's that." I think MS is a cool ride but you can't deny the fact that it is the most exclusionary ride in all of Disney. I agree with jmvd20's point that all of these attractions (Horizons, WOM, Test Track, MS) should all exist together. In this case you had a former attraction, Horizons, that literally everyone in the world could ride... which was knocked down and replaced by an attraction that only certain people could enjoy.

it was made VERY clear who should and should not ride Mission:Space.

Sure, for most people who would consider themselves at least partially educated. Don't forget you have many foreigners that come to WDW, as well as.. dare I say.. people who aren't that bright and may not go out of their way to read signs. Case in point - my sister witnessed a woman screaming at a CM in the parking lot at Disney Studios (after she had parked her car) because... she thought she was at the Magic Kingdom. Apparently the huge "Disney Studios" sign that she drove underneath was no indication for her, let alone the other road signs leading up to the park saying "Disney Studios next right."

 

[Now Is The Time]

Also, my apologies Endirikari, I mean no disrespect. Do I completely disagree with you on all counts? Absolutely. However if I am just 1 out of many than so are you. I tend to not necessarily trust talks about increased attendance for attractions because unless there are official numbers, a lot of it is heresay. Also, there simply are more people in the world these days and since WDW has been around that much longer, more people are visiting the parks. This is why I find it tricky to compare the number of turnstiles turning using today's numbers with an extinct attraction from 10 or more years ago.

I got a little heated when I heard you mention that Horizons was "unsafe" because that rumor is so old and empty it's not even funny.

Oh and for the record, Mr. Toad used plywood cut-outs, not cardboard. :lol:

 

[JDM]

Since this involves our opinion, I would say...

Removing the wand <ducks>


OK, OK, Calm down. I personally don't care either way, but next time we go, my daughter is going to be looking for it and I have to explain that many many people hated it with the passion of 1000 suns.

Not looking forward to that converation.

Amen, brother (or sister)!

 

[Zummi Gummi]

Yes but my point is this. Just because Disney puts out all kinds of warning signs about an attraction, that does not mean they should not be held accountable. You make a ride that simulates space travel, with huge amounts of force and exertion that the human body goes through.. if as a company you make the choice to build such an attraction, you can't expect to simply put warning signs out and then fold your arms and say "Well, that's that." I think MS is a cool ride but you can't deny the fact that it is the most exclusionary ride in all of Disney. I agree with jmvd20's point that all of these attractions (Horizons, WOM, Test Track, MS) should all exist together. In this case you had a former attraction, Horizons, that literally everyone in the world could ride... which was knocked down and replaced by an attraction that only certain people could enjoy.

Sure, for most people who would consider themselves at least partially educated. Don't forget you have many foreigners that come to WDW, as well as.. dare I say.. people who aren't that bright and may not go out of their way to read signs. Case in point - my sister witnessed a woman screaming at a CM in the parking lot at Disney Studios (after she had parked her car) because... she thought she was at the Magic Kingdom. Apparently the huge "Disney Studios" sign that she drove underneath was no indication for her, let alone the other road signs leading up to the park saying "Disney Studios next right."

What else did you expect them to do? Should they have asked for a note from every potential rider's cardiologist, so they could be assured riding M:S would not induce a heart attack? I don't deny the ride is "exclusionary" but Disney makes it VERY clear who should be excluded from it. It's not as if you don't know that before you ride.

Everyone who says that all these attractions should co-exist...where are you going to put them? Granted, something could have been done with the area that was Wonders of Life. And, you can't deny the fact the Test Track is infinitely more popular now than World of Motion was its last few years of operation. Ditto M:S and Horizons. It's ok to miss the attractions, but from a business standpoint (and Disney is a business) they made the right call- both of the replacements are more popular and drawing more guests than their predecessors were. For the record, I enjoyed Horizons a great deal, but World of Motion always bored me to tears.

Finally, how can you expect Disney to be responsible for the people who don't read the very prominent signage? Again, what else are they supposed to do? Now, when you get on the queue, and a CM hands you a pamphlet to read, how can Disney be responsible for the idiots that don't bother to read it? What else, exactly, would you like them to do?

 

[Now Is The Time]

What else did you expect them to do? Should they have asked for a note from every potential rider's cardiologist, so they could be assured riding M:S would not induce a heart attack? I don't deny the ride is "exclusionary" but Disney makes it VERY clear who should be excluded from it.

Yes, VERY clear to those who choose to read it.. or are able to read it in English or Spanish

Everyone who says that all these attractions should co-exist...where are you going to put them?

Disney would find a way. If they can squeeze in a big DVC hotel on the north wing side of the Contemporary, they can do anything. Plus there's lots of room between the pavillions at Epcot. At MK, many attractions are side by side or a stone's throw away from each other. Epcot is spaced out.

Granted, something could have been done with the area that was Wonders of Life. And, you can't deny the fact the Test Track is infinitely more popular now than World of Motion was its last few years of operation. Ditto M:S and Horizons.

Uh, yes I can deny it. World of Motion packed people in. I remember walking up and down and up and down the roped aisles - and that was before walking through the front doors of the attraction where the line continued. Attendance dwindling at Horizons was another myth.

World of Motion always bored me to tears.

Be careful, the real reasons you have for your Test Track testimony is shining through a little. :lol:

Finally, how can you expect Disney to be responsible for the people who don't read the very prominent signage? Again, what else are they supposed to do? Now, when you get on the queue, and a CM hands you a pamphlet to read, how can Disney be responsible for the idiots that don't bother to read it? What else, exactly, would you like them to do?

That's my point EXACTLY. Disney can't be expected to be responsible for idiots or those who can't or don't choose to read. That's why creating an atttraction that exerts so much force on the human mind and body and opening it up to the general public is risky. So if you still build it while knowing all the risks, that makes you accountable. Look we're getting off track here. It was posted that MS was getting a bad rap due to bad press - yeah people died.. did you expect good press as a result? Whether or not Disney is at fault, people died on their attraction. And don't think for one second that Disney is as happy or confident about MS ever since. I'm just saying it's a far cry to trust the general public to act 100% responsibly when it comes to safety. It's the law to wear seat belts. Does EVERYBODY wear them? No.

 

[Enderikari]

(and for the record, Enderikari was not a custodial CM, or a bus driver... He does have some clout.)

Funny you should say that, for the first 6 months of my Disney career I was a custodial CM, you know, before I got the cool jobs

 

[goofyfan13]

Disney would find a way. If they can squeeze in a big DVC hotel on the north wing side of the Contemporary, they can do anything. Plus there's lots of room between the pavillions at Epcot. At MK, many attractions are side by side or a stone's throw away from each other. Epcot is spaced out.

Yes, but, they still had to destroy something to start building that, namely the north garden wing. So, in essence they still destroyed a pre-existing structure to build a new one, much like destroying rides in the parks for new ones.

 

[Now Is The Time]

Yes, but, they still had to destroy something to start building that, namely the north garden wing. So, in essence they still destroyed a pre-existing structure to build a new one, much like destroying rides in the parks for new ones.

Aha! Good point. But my point though was more that space is not an issue at Disney... which is what drives me crazy sometimes when they knock stuff down.

 

[tirian]

Funny you should say that, for the first 6 months of my Disney career I was a custodial CM, you know, before I got the cool jobs

I thought you didn't work for them any more? :shrug:

If not, what were the "cool jobs"? If you still do, I don't expect you to answer. :lol:

 

[disneyfreak53]

i agree with Now is the Time, in MS and Rockin RC, there are signs everywhere that say if u hav heart problems or any conditions, dont ride it. MS has t.v. monitors for crying-out-loud. thats their problem if they choose to ride or not. ive been on MS a bunch of times and i love it

 

[tirian]

Not so sure this was an acceptance of the status quo as much as it was trying to survive without getting in hot water with the upper management in Burbank.

That's still debatable, but I see your point. :wave:

I meant that the entire company was satisfied with the status quo; that would include the folks in Burbank.

 

[Enderikari]

I thought you didn't work for them any more? :shrug:

If not, what were the "cool jobs"? If you still do, I don't expect you to answer. :lol:

I did work for the company, I no longer do.

 

[brianhorn]

My two cents (intended as suggestions for improvement, not a gripe-fest):
>> It's too late now, but the transportation system should have been better planned. I don't expect every hotel to be a monorail stop, but I refuse to believe that the busses don't cost just as much as an automatic monorail system over the long-term investment. Ideally, each resort area would have its own monorail line that connected to two main stations--the TTC for MK/EC and another one for DHS/AK. This would be much more efficient than diesel-guzzling busses + staffing. Now that the busses are being replaced with "green" models, Disney is really spending a lot of money that could have been saved years ago with a better transportation investment. (Of course, monorails are now about 1 million $$ per mile, so a larger system will probably never be built).

As much as I like the monorails, I think I read once that they cost $1,000,000 a mile to build. To replace the buses with a monorail system would cost Disney billions of dollars and there would be no real payback. What they could do is something similar to what was done in Boston with the silver line. Due to the high cost of building a new subway line they built a bus line with roadways dedicated entirely to the busses. In some places they have to contend with traffic, however most of the time they travel in the own tunnels and roadways.

 

[4parks1world]

Letting River Country rot for all to see.

I agree..use it or lose it.. i have some great memories from that place back in 1980... Pinocchios menu change.. they had the best burgers in all of the parks.. now the other two places..pecos bills and comsic ray... seems a little busier:shrug:

 

[HappyHaunts999]

I think the new Jounrney Into Imagination is the most awful thing I have seen. It is a disgrace. I LOVED the old one, with Dreamfinder and all the neat rooms, especially the scary room...remember that one? I loved the room with all the white glittery stuff too. What a shame.