Rapid Fill Mug Program Fails (at more ways than you might think)

[SirLink]

I get that.. but you also have to look within the horizon people are working within. F&B doesn't give a crap about how much Parks spend on repairing cheap paint. If F&B relies on drink sales as part of their established revenue model... they can't just walk away from it. They would have to redefine their business and that means being viewed and measured differently from above as well.

Not impossible - but it's not about 'free salt vs free soda' - it's about what I am expected to deliver to the company and how I am measured.

$0.02 worth of syrup + Disney Markup ... like I said, either don't allow refills and put it behind counters ... which will off your guests ... or be thankful for any Coke products you sell and be done with it ... if someone brings a personal mug with them. Its up to CM to call security and get them to pay up... not technology ... its eyes.

 

[englanddg]

$0.02 worth of syrup + Disney Markup ... like I said, either don't allow refills and put it behind counters ... which will off your guests ... or be thankful for any Coke products you sell and be done with it ... if someone brings a personal mug with them. Its up to CM to call security and get them to pay up... not technology ... its eyes.

Markup happens after all the costs are considered, not just the syrup cost alone. It's probably closer to 18 - 20 cents per fill.

I broke all this down (and even pulled recent market numbers for things like filter and syrup cost, since I haven't done it for nearly 7 years, and don't know those off the top of my head).

But I get your point.

 

[ford91exploder]

The situation is nothing alike except both being counter service

1) You don't tend to pass through burger king on your way to and from your bedroom every day
2) Scale
3) Existing design/layout

And many of these places do NOT ignore soda fountain abuse. It tends to depend on your location... because the biggest factor is the environment and demographics.

If Disney just freaking stood up to their customers, such a system would not be necessary in the first place. Same with photo flashes, etc. Every guest has an ID associated with them.. room card or ticket.. and now MDE profiles. Track problem people and punish them. Don't want to give up your 'id'? Fine, we'll escort you off property.

It doesn't take running a prison to get the message across... just change the mentality and expectations that Disney isn't going to let you walk all over them.

Very good point and well stated, If Disney included the drinks as part of the resort experience and monitored use this would SOLVE the issues seen today.

 

[SirLink]

Markup happens after all the costs are considered, not just the syrup cost alone. It's probably closer to 18 - 20 cents per fill.

I broke all this down (and even pulled recent market numbers for things like filter and syrup cost, since I haven't done it for nearly 7 years, and don't know those off the top of my head).

But I get your point.

Plus they get a lot of the stuff for free money as part of their agreement of Coca-Cola.

 

[englanddg]

Plus they get a lot of the stuff for free as part of their agreement of Coca-Cola.

Probably not much more than any other major Coke agreement. Do you have a copy of it (I've always been curious to compare it to other agreements I've seen).

They certainly don't get any of the primary costs (with the possible exception of filters / maintenance and machine parts, which I noted in my analysis and is nominal) from Coke for free. They also probably got the machines and machine installation for free, as that is very common for Coke to do.

However, I doubt Coke was part of the whole Rapidfill initiative outside of possibly consulting. Unlike the Freestyle system, which boosts syrup sales due to variety and flavors, there is zero incentive for a quantity control measure like this to be endorsed in any serious way by Coke. And, Pepsi wouldn't nibble either, I suspect. But, I could be wrong.

They are paying for the syrup, they are paying for the CO2, they are still paying for water, they are still paying for paper goods to support it, and they are still paying for the labor to clean and maintain the bars.

 

[The Visionary Soul]

When you have trouble speaking English and you're being payed $7/hr, do you really want to go out of your way to deal with a guest's problem?

If you'd like to keep your job the answer is yes, but a poor corporate/management culture doesn't help in this area.

Let's be fair, they're getting paid at least 7.93 an hour. Granted, if you are doing the international program, a lot of that goes straight to your housing and you never see that money, but still.

 

[40goingon7]

Other parks have the same system (ie, Sesame Place). Had it for a few years now in the largest dinning hall; what about all those fast food places that allow you to refill for $.25? Its all the same, everyone trying to keep costs in check; what about cruise ships when the bill for drinks comes due? If we are to believe that UNI is going to get aggressive with its parks then similar issues will arise with their pricing structure as well (ie, express pass costing extra in addition to park admission).

I wonder if all the hot chocolate that was being filled was during the cold snaps...would the same thing happen in July or Aug? I really don't expect a free ride with anything; if you expect one you should try living in NYC for a few years, it hardens you and you expect to be gouged for everything, not saying its right just the way things are. Disney is still a corporation, must improve the bottom line year after year....My family and I enjoy our time in the parks when we go, spending time at the resorts is not a priority for us; we also get the dinning plan so we've covered our costs as much as we can before we get to WDW so our mugs are part of the package. We fill and then leave for the parks, usually the drinks are all gone before we arrive so the limited refill doesn't bother us.

 

[The Visionary Soul]

Nothing is an absolute when dealing with customer behavior... but I'd wager if given asking for a cup of water vs buying one of the offered drinks... 9 out of ten would buy a drink. Just my speculation... but just about everyone will give you a cup of water if you ask... yet most still buy the offered drinks. Even in restaurants where the water is there without asking.. most still order drinks.

Ordering a drink with your meal is an expectation most customers are comfortable with.

Let's also remember it's not always a meal. Drinks are drinks... free standing soda machines don't really add up to getting a drink with a meal. For a lot of these people, it's just "I'm thirsty, I want something for free." Those people aren't going to be converted into revenue generating guests no matter what you do.

 

[SirLink]

They are paying for the syrup, they are paying for the CO2, they are still paying for water, they are still paying for paper goods to support it, and they are still paying for the labor to clean and maintain the bars.

Yes and lets say its average cost is $0.20 over 1000 cups of soda. Its hardly terrible produce better food and proper calculated food mark up - food costs * 3. They would sell more and recoup the loses from Syrup-Gate. Which is such a stupid idea to nickle and dime over...

 

[englanddg]

Yes and lets say its average cost is $0.20 over 1000 cups of soda. Its hardly terrible produce better food and proper calculated food mark up - food costs * 3. They would sell more and recoup the loses from Syrup-Gate. Which is such a stupid idea to nickle and dime over...

Not really. Bev cost is your profit center you play with. Food cost for quick service should run around 15 - 20% average. For a full service restaurant 35% - 40% is not unthinkable (though closer to 25% - 30% would be ideal).

Note, these percentages I'm quoting are food cost expenses, so the revenue would be food only, not total revenue for those percentages to pan out. Beverage, on the other hand, is very high margin, and that's the number you can play with because the quality of the product doesn't really change whether you do 100% markup or a 400% markup...but, if you do 100% markup on food alone, costs such as ground beef for burgers, etc...force you to the dangerous "price cap" where people will no longer purchase the item.

Even at Disney.

My point is, playing with food prices is a lot more delicate and involved than beverage prices.

 

[potc4me]

If someone has a lifetime mug from the time when lifetime mugs were sold they should be able to bring the mug to any Disney resort quick service location and receive a refund of their original purchase price now that the program is ending. In all my time going to WDW I never saw an unlimited for life mug offer, but since some people claim they got one and I have no reason to doubt them I think they should be fairly compensated. Disney would have a record of when the lifetime mugs were sold and what they look like so it would be easy to identify them and offer compensation.

That would be like a car insurance company wanting to refund the premium of someone who has had a crash to avoid paying a claim. The fair way would be a voucher for free new mug EACH trip.

 

[flynnibus]

Let's also remember it's not always a meal. Drinks are drinks... free standing soda machines don't really add up to getting a drink with a meal. For a lot of these people, it's just "I'm thirsty, I want something for free." Those people aren't going to be converted into revenue generating guests no matter what you do.

So what... those people go away along with the loss that went with them. The majority of the people are still there for the food court.. and that's what the soda machines are there to serve.

You don't care about losing people who aren't your audience to start with.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Good. I'm glad this is backfiring because it's an example of them grabbing at pennies. This is not an attempt to improve the guest experience it was an attempt to cut costs and it burned them in the a$$. They deserve this failure.

If they wanted to sell this as improving the guest experience they needed to sell mugs that would work in the parks, and add Coke Freestyle machines everywhere. Either that, or stop worrying about making more money on the single item that has the highest margins of anything on property. This was a pure money grab that backfired for reasons beyond what us and Disney expected. I'm glad that it's failing and I hope they concede the program was pointless.

 

[40goingon7]

Good. I'm glad this is backfiring because it's an example of them grabbing at pennies. This is not an attempt to improve the guest experience it was an attempt to cut costs and it burned them in the a$$. They deserve this failure.

If they wanted to sell this as improving the guest experience they needed to sell mugs that would work in the parks, and add Coke Freestyle machines everywhere. Either that, or stop worrying about making more money on the single item that has the highest margins of anything on property. This was a pure money grab that backfired for reasons beyond what us and Disney expected. I'm glad that it's failing and I hope they concede the program was pointless.

So at UNI a refillable mugs cost 8.99 and up, and refills are $.99. I know they say the mugs are "forever" but the refill cost will go up at some point there too and your "forever" will still cost you the new price for the refill so where is the improved guest experience?

 

[Clamman73]

Good. I'm glad this is backfiring because it's an example of them grabbing at pennies. This is not an attempt to improve the guest experience it was an attempt to cut costs and it burned them in the a$$. They deserve this failure.

If they wanted to sell this as improving the guest experience they needed to sell mugs that would work in the parks, and add Coke Freestyle machines everywhere. Either that, or stop worrying about making more money on the single item that has the highest margins of anything on property. This was a pure money grab that backfired for reasons beyond what us and Disney expected. I'm glad that it's failing and I hope they concede the program was pointless.

You still sound mad about Test Track...

 

[GoofGoof]

That would be like a car insurance company wanting to refund the premium of someone who has had a crash to avoid paying a claim. The fair way would be a voucher for free new mug EACH trip.

It's not close to the same thing. If someone paid something excessive like $100 for the mug assuming they would recoup the cost over many years then it would be a different story. The "lifetime" mugs were sold in the 90s close to 20 years ago for a little less then you would pay today for a length of stay mug. I'm pretty sure anyone who owns one got more than fair value for their purchase.

But, to be fair I would say if anyone has proof that their mug is indeed a "lifetime" mug then they should look into a class action lawsuit. I know of at least 1 case where a local gym sold a lifetime membership with the annual fee locked in at a very low rate and that gym was later bought by Bally Total Fitness. A court ruled Bally had to honor the lifetime low membership fee. The key is having some form of documented proof that it was sold as lifetime refills. Saying CM Joe at the All Star Sports food court told me it was free refills for life isn't going to hold up in court. If they subpoena Disney's records they can probably find the exact dates Disney sold lifetime mugs.

 

[Figments Friend]

Finally, there are those out there that claim that when they bought their mug back in 1992, they could get unlimited free refills forever. (I'm one of those people actually, and yes, that was the policy back then, though they also had mugs for each resort too, so many things have changed in the program.) The new system just screws over those guests, and there is really no excuse for that, when the amount of mugs sold during that period was so tiny and so few show up these days. The company really does just look like Scrooge McDuck is running everything. Pinch those pennies Scrooge, pinch them!

Thank you for this.
Sums up my feelings, too.

I thought i was the only one who used to bring back my 2001 edition for refills.
I love my *big mugs*, those big fat ones...remember them..?
They were the style offered before the travel mug sizes took over completely.

I had no shame in filling them every visit.
I knew they were the *unlimited forever* ones...as i clearly remember only buying one because of that premise of yore.
There was a lot of marketing at the time about the mugs sold then that stressed the *value* of being able to bring it back on future visits. It was mostly at the Resort Hotels themselves.
I remember that large piece of signage that used to be up on the wall in the ASMusic Food Court back then.

It was a nice plus, and made more sense for a regular like me that used to practically live On Property during certain times of the year.
I would always bring that mug back and never had any issues...and kept on using it right up until 2012.

Yeah, i miss not being able to use it anymore when i am down there...but then again, i am spending more time at Disneyland now so the timing kind of worked out to my advantage.
I certainly made good use of that mug over the years...best $11.99 i ever spent.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Syrup-gate

But in all actuality, stealing $0.02 worth of syrup is no different to taking 5 sachets of Heinz Ketchup, i.e not really stealing - especially compared to stuff that walks out the Emporium on night. They should physically arrest folks in the MK set the precedent right there and then.

Here's the thing, more people look at this as a situation where, "We're spending thousands of dollars on this vacation, refilling my soda before I leave the restaurant isn't stealing". Can someone intelligently determine how much money Disney was "losing" on this and weigh that against the "good will" it creates. Decisions like eliminating free refills or switching to plain napkins might save the company money on a balance sheet, but I'd argue that seeing those old mugs every day at home or seeing Disney napkins every day at home leads to more vacations.

These decisions are short sighted and petty. Disney is continuing to make the place less like a destination and more like a shopping mall.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Old mugs that allowed for unlimited refills for life? Don't have a problem with that one.

The motivation behind this is to get an additional $10 from each of their otherwise loyal guests. It comes off as remarkably petty, and considering the annual increases on resort rates and tickets would it have been so difficult to roll these costs in with the annual increases?

We all love Disney on here, but they have spent billions on "infrastructure" in the last decade that has done more to decrease the guest experience than increase it. Can someone please explain to me how that makes any sense.

 

[RSoxNo1]

So at UNI a refillable mugs cost 8.99 and up, and refills are $.99. I know they say the mugs are "forever" but the refill cost will go up at some point there too and your "forever" will still cost you the new price for the refill so where is the improved guest experience?

San Diego Zoo had an initial cup purchase and a price for refills as well. I would be 100% onboard with a system like this. They do this at Fenway Park, and while I'm sure there's abuse they get past that abuse with different cups each month.