Rapid Fill Mug Program Fails (at more ways than you might think)

[flynnibus]

I definitely see the analogy, but most gas stations have lowered the "friction" on drinks purchases as they are DIRT CHEAP, the Wawa down the street is 79 cents for any size. Now, why can't Disney do this? If it weren't so outrageously expensive beyond reason, people wouldn't even think about getting "free" drinks.

Because a business model is not just about individual costs in isolation. The gas station hasn't changed it's soda prices because 'hey, its cheap, why not' - it's part of a larger business strategy utilizing giving up margin on soda to act as a marketing/brand tool to bring people to THEIR gas stations -- shifting costs/targets to try to drive their business as a whole. (like Disney giving away transportation.. not a revenue stream core to their model.. to build a brand loyalty for their core revenue model... the rooms and services).

Which is why I said before.. the business model and where one collects their money and targets from is central to any comparisons between businesses. Is the beverage stuff just ancillary to the unit.. or essential to their model?

 

[GrumpyFan]

Yep! And I am not going to turn this into thread into a discussion about "me" granted I do love attention. But my mindset does not have to be yours nor anyone else's. And I am not alone in my thinking. Same with the food court - in the past I brought an old mug - so me along with many others were a thief, ok?? LOL Call it as it may - i do not mind. I am done with this discussion kind people.

Wow, I'm glad he's done. Now, we can talk about him.

Seriously though, it still amazes me that there are actually people like this in society. Unfortunately, there are too many with this mindset, which is probably part of the reason why Disney chose to implement RapidFill, to try and stop them from free-loading. It's a shame that the rest of us now have to pay the consequences (and higher prices) for their selfish behavior.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Has anyone seen someone with a funnel and tube at club cool to fill up a jug?

I haven't seen anything that bad but I have seen people try to fill up their 20oz bottles of Dasani or Coke on multiple visits this past Christmas and last summer.

 

[Hot Lava]

Has anyone seen someone with a funnel and tube at club cool to fill up a jug?

They have beer bongs at CC? Yay!

They had definitely put RFID chips on those...and locks.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Perhaps its just me, but there seems to be more of a boldness in certain guests lately that screams entitlement as if it is okay to steal something because it doesn't cost the other party much. Personally, stealing is stealing no matter how inexpensive the item is nor how many other people do it. Using the excuse that others do it too reminds me of my children when they were in grade school saying that "everyone else was doing it too" as if that makes it okay. Theft of any kind raises prices for everyone who pays because all companies, including Disney, adjust their pricing to cover for the thieves that shoplift goods.

 

[ford91exploder]

The fact that they started prosecuting people for using Napster was a bigger driver of change in my opinion.

Do not agree on that one - I can recall when VHS movie tapes were north of 75 bucks and piracy was a HUGE problem, When the price was reduced below $25 the problem more or less went away, yes there are hardcore crooks who are going to steal no matter what but Disney is making the problem worse with the excessive mug cost and their desire to be cheap by using the mug designs for YEARS.

My idea if DIsney simply does not want to make it part of admission or room.

1 - make the mugs collectible again
2 - lower the price to < $10
3 - charge .25 for a refill with the MB infrastructure it should be easy enough to simply make it a room charge or 'free' with DDP
4 - for those staying offsite sell a refill 'card' with 20 refills for $5 bucks or so and takes the container out of the equation and metering 16-20 oz of drink is not a real problem and make the card good for say 48 hours.

For the tea/coffee/hot chocolate machines a wave of the card would activate tap for say 60 seconds.

This completely takes 'Free' refills out of the equation and does so by allowing Disney to collect a modest profit on each drink.

Fixes the theft problem and lowers the friction and allows people to get as much as they want without being annoyed by the waits and lets kids 'mix' if they so desire.

 

[tissandtully]

Perhaps its just me, but there seems to be more of a boldness in certain guests lately that screams entitlement as if it is okay to steal something because it doesn't cost the other party much. Personally, stealing is stealing no matter how inexpensive the item is nor how many other people do it. Using the excuse that others do it too reminds me of my children when they were in grade school saying that "everyone else was doing it too" as if that makes it okay. Theft of any kind raises prices for everyone who pays because all companies, including Disney, adjust their pricing to cover for the thieves that shoplift goods.

Well, WDW is the land of entitlement, it's just a side effect of the culture there, the guest is always right and all that. Unavoidable.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Do not agree on that one - I can recall when VHS movie tapes were north of 75 bucks and piracy was a HUGE problem, When the price was reduced below $25 the problem more or less went away, yes there are hardcore crooks who are going to steal no matter what but Disney is making the problem worse with the excessive mug cost and their desire to be cheap by using the mug designs for YEARS.

My idea if DIsney simply does not want to make it part of admission or room.

1 - make the mugs collectible again
2 - lower the price to < $10
3 - charge .25 for a refill with the MB infrastructure it should be easy enough to simply make it a room charge or 'free' with DDP
4 - for those staying offsite sell a refill 'card' with 20 refills for $5 bucks or so

Fixes the theft problem and lowers the friction and allows people to get as much as they want without being annoyed by the waits and lets kids 'mix' if they so desire.

The mugs are $17.99 for a length of stay, up to 14 days. We used ours, after asking for an extension, for 15 days resulting in the net cost of the mugs being $1.19 per day which is less than it would cost me to purchase a single soda at McDonald's each day locally. That is actually VERY inexpensive when considering I used mine for two cups of coffee each morning, a soda or two each evening and a hot cocoa or two for good measure. I do not believe the price is set too high for what is made available based on my families usage and the fact we typically stay two weeks at a time.

I will grant you that $17.99 for four days usage is high and I would hesitate to purchase for that price but as the average stay seems to be 8 days now the daily cost is just at $2.25 per day which is not unreasonable if you were purchasing a single beverage per day at your resort would cost as much or more.

20 refills for $5.00 is $0.40 each which would barely cover expenses for the syrup, filtration, CO2 and lets face it, Disney is always going to make sure everything you purchase results in a "small" profit. I could see them selling the cup for $7.99 and charging $0.75 for a refill but I would personally prefer they not go that route as I would end up at Wal-Mart or Target to pick-up my soft-drinks and I would bring my own coffee maker/coffee.

 

[tissandtully]

Do not agree on that one - I can recall when VHS movie tapes were north of 75 bucks and piracy was a HUGE problem, When the price was reduced below $25 the problem more or less went away, yes there are hardcore crooks who are going to steal no matter what but Disney is making the problem worse with the excessive mug cost and their desire to be cheap by using the mug designs for YEARS.

My idea if DIsney simply does not want to make it part of admission or room.

1 - make the mugs collectible again
2 - lower the price to < $10
3 - charge .25 for a refill with the MB infrastructure it should be easy enough to simply make it a room charge or 'free' with DDP
4 - for those staying offsite sell a refill 'card' with 20 refills for $5 bucks or so and takes the container out of the equation and metering 16-20 oz of drink is not a real problem and make the card good for say 48 hours.

For the tea/coffee/hot chocolate machines a wave of the card would activate tap for say 60 seconds.

This completely takes 'Free' refills out of the equation and does so by allowing Disney to collect a modest profit on each drink.

Fixes the theft problem and lowers the friction and allows people to get as much as they want without being annoyed by the waits and lets kids 'mix' if they so desire.

Excellent suggestions. I have no idea why Disney missed the train on the Freestyle machines, you could easily fit 3 in where the current Rapidfill beasts sit.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Well, WDW is the land of entitlement, it's just a side effect of the culture there, the guest is always right and all that. Unavoidable.

Very true, and until they empower and expect the CM to enforce the rules the culture will only go downhill faster.

 

[tissandtully]

The mugs are $17.99 for a length of stay, up to 14 days. We used ours, after asking for an extension, for 15 days resulting in the net cost of the mugs being $1.19 per day which is less than it would cost me to purchase a single soda at McDonald's each day locally. That is actually VERY inexpensive when considering I used mine for two cups of coffee each morning, a soda or two each evening and a hot cocoa or two for good measure. I do not believe the price is set too high for what is made available based on my families usage and the fact we typically stay two weeks at a time.

I will grant you that $17.99 for four days usage is high and I would hesitate to purchase for that price but as the average stay seems to be 8 days now the daily cost is just at $2.25 per day which is not unreasonable if you were purchasing a single beverage per day at your resort would cost as much or more.

20 refills for $5.00 is $0.40 each which would barely cover expenses for the syrup, filtration, CO2 and lets face it, Disney is always going to make sure everything you purchase results in a "small" profit. I could see them selling the cup for $7.99 and charging $0.75 for a refill but I would personally prefer they not go that route as I would end up at Wal-Mart or Target to pick-up my soft-drinks and I would bring my own coffee maker/coffee.

I agree $17.99 over 14 days is actually not bad, but the average WDW stay is 4 days. :/

 

[NormC]

- let me rephrase: "As much as I spend on McDonalds on a daily basis that one drink I get is not hurt to them".

Still a thief no matter how you you say it. Stealing is stealing. PhD? From whose wall did you steal it? lol

 

[disney4life2008]

Still a thief no matter how you you say it. Stealing is stealing. PhD? From whose wall did you steal it? lol

LOL! I earned my PhD and got the student loans to prove it. But I still manage enough to come to disney several times a year.

 

[disney4life2008]

Excellent suggestions. I have no idea why Disney missed the train on the Freestyle machines, you could easily fit 3 in where the current Rapidfill beasts sit.

I like the freestyle machines - I am seeing them more and more across as I travel. I had heard that the upkeep on them was much more difficult than regular machines but I am not sure how true that is. I am actually shocked there are no freestyle machines on property.

 

[CDavid]

My idea if DIsney simply does not want to make it part of admission or room.

1 - make the mugs collectible again
2 - lower the price to < $10
3 - charge .25 for a refill with the MB infrastructure it should be easy enough to simply make it a room charge or 'free' with DDP
4 - for those staying offsite sell a refill 'card' with 20 refills for $5 bucks or so and takes the container out of the equation and metering 16-20 oz of drink is not a real problem and make the card good for say 48 hours.

For the tea/coffee/hot chocolate machines a wave of the card would activate tap for say 60 seconds.

This completely takes 'Free' refills out of the equation and does so by allowing Disney to collect a modest profit on each drink.

Fixes the theft problem and lowers the friction and allows people to get as much as they want without being annoyed by the waits and lets kids 'mix' if they so desire.

This could be simplified even further by simply requiring guests to tap their bands/cards to activate the machine for a refill. If they have a valid mug, it is of course free. if they do not have a valid mug attached to their band or card, their room will be charged the current price for a beverage. Off-site persons can purchase a temporary activation card from the cashier.

This would not prevent one person from buying a mug and refilling constantly to get a jug full, but that can - and should - be policed by the CM's, and merely having to tap to activate the dispenser stops the vast majority of unauthorized refills.

 

[ford91exploder]

The mugs are $17.99 for a length of stay, up to 14 days. We used ours, after asking for an extension, for 15 days resulting in the net cost of the mugs being $1.19 per day which is less than it would cost me to purchase a single soda at McDonald's each day locally. That is actually VERY inexpensive when considering I used mine for two cups of coffee each morning, a soda or two each evening and a hot cocoa or two for good measure. I do not believe the price is set too high for what is made available based on my families usage and the fact we typically stay two weeks at a time.

I will grant you that $17.99 for four days usage is high and I would hesitate to purchase for that price but as the average stay seems to be 8 days now the daily cost is just at $2.25 per day which is not unreasonable if you were purchasing a single beverage per day at your resort would cost as much or more.

20 refills for $5.00 is $0.40 each which would barely cover expenses for the syrup, filtration, CO2 and lets face it, Disney is always going to make sure everything you purchase results in a "small" profit. I could see them selling the cup for $7.99 and charging $0.75 for a refill but I would personally prefer they not go that route as I would end up at Wal-Mart or Target to pick-up my soft-drinks and I would bring my own coffee maker/coffee.

Being DVC we already DO bring own drinks and coffee but its nice when eating at QS like Artists Palette to have the mugs for a drink.

 

[flynnibus]

My idea if DIsney simply does not want to make it part of admission or room.

1 - make the mugs collectible again
2 - lower the price to < $10
3 - charge .25 for a refill with the MB infrastructure it should be easy enough to simply make it a room charge or 'free' with DDP
4 - for those staying offsite sell a refill 'card' with 20 refills for $5 bucks or so and takes the container out of the equation and metering 16-20 oz of drink is not a real problem and make the card good for say 48 hours.

I'm not sure what any of this solves...

Disney already has no problem selling the mugs
People aren't stealing because the mugs cost too much.. they are stealing because they
a - know they can get away with it
b - have convinced themselves for a variety of reasons its ok to do so

Selling a cheaper version of refills isn't going to convert A or B - they aren't constrained today by the price. The only way to deal those types is to 1) take the machines away from them or 2) enforce the rules or 3) make them pay for it involuntarily (as part of a room or otherwise)

Disney isn't going to correct the moral compass of these people.. so they either need to enforce the rules (rapidfill or CM monitoring) or move the machines out of self-serve if Disney truly wants to stop it.

If their accounting for revenue for the cups is already so screwed up with DDP as the OP infers... I'd just shift the business model to not charge for common drinks, and focus more on upsold specialty drinks for revenue. I'd keep metering in place to keep people from wasting and using oversized containers and to discourage the 'outsider coming in' problem.

The bigger problem is probably the idea that DDP would want the mugs included to show perceived value. If you take that away, F&B/DDP again needs to raise other prices to justify it's advantage.

 

[Hot Lava]

I like the freestyle machines - I am seeing them more and more across as I travel. I had heard that the upkeep on them was much more difficult than regular machines but I am not sure how true that is. I am actually shocked there are no freestyle machines on property.

Kinda begs the question why they aren't also used in Club Cool. I saw a grumbling about flavors being taken out. Couldn't you gear several of these machines for dispensing these drinks from around the world?

But I do like the machines as well. Wegmans all have them. The only downside is if you are somewhere there is only one, and you get stuck behind someone who cannot figure it out or decide what they want.

 

[ford91exploder]

This could be simplified even further by simply requiring guests to tap their bands/cards to activate the machine for a refill. If they have a valid mug, it is of course free. if they do not have a valid mug attached to their band or card, their room will be charged the current price for a beverage. Off-site persons can purchase a temporary activation card from the cashier.

This would not prevent one person from buying a mug and refilling constantly to get a jug full, but that can - and should - be policed by the CM's, and merely having to tap to activate the dispenser stops the vast majority of unauthorized refills.

I like this idea - I still don't understand WHY disney did not implement ie tie the refill to the person NOT the mug. They seem to have a love for complexity where none is needed

 

[disney4life2008]

Kinda begs the question why they aren't also used in Club Cool. I saw a grumbling about flavors being taken out. Couldn't you gear several of these machines for dispensing these drinks from around the world?

But I do like the machines as well. Wegmans all have them. The only downside is if you are somewhere there is only one, and you get stuck behind someone who cannot figure it out or decide what they want.

Maybe that is why that have not because it would increase wait times for pop. I know at wendys back on campus - the average person is at the machine for about 1 or 2 minutes looking at the choices.