copcarguyp71
Well-Known Member
My laugh was cynical....DVC execs are the ones with the maniacal laugh.
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proof that WDW has done nothing to improve the parks in yeqrs
- Thread starter seascape
- Start date
The reason for another gate next to the a Magic Kingdom is that the Magic Kingdom is already difficult to see all of in one day, I usually take 2 days. Also if you only are finishing up a couple of attractions then park hopping to a different park right next door is easier and faster. Plus it can be made to feel like the magical area between Disney Land and DCA. Additionally it would provide a wonderful backdrop for what could become the most expensive hotel and DVC on property. Last but not least since this is a company that has to answer to the stock holders it would increase profits because more people would want to park hop. This was found out at Universal and Disney in California.
I agree the cost of a 5th gate would be about 3 billion. However isn't that about how much they have spent of the technology improvements, Disney Springs and the road improvements? I believe a little more than 5 billion dollars investment plan over the next 6 years is reasonable and affordable and in the best interest of the stock holders. In my opinion Universal has clearly shown the market exists for many more attractions and I do not want Universal to continue to grow at the expense of Disney. I don't mind them growing but at the same or slower rate. I want 1 billion each for Epcot and DHS and have the DVC build the new hotel and timeshare.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
You an I may agree it's reasonable but I don't think WDW management would agree. Disney had a spike in capital spending in 2011 and 2012, and in the investor calls at the end of that period they said that they would be brining capital spending back to a more modest level. The quote from one of the calls was they they intended domestic parks and resorts spending to be "greater the $1B but well less the $2B a year." For the sake of argument let's call that $1.25B a year, and that covers WDW, DL, Aulani and the cruise line. 5B over 6 years would be an average of about $830M a year, which leaves $420M a year for everything else. So WDW would already be getting a huge chunk of the capitol expenditure each year and that only covers three projects, 5th gate, Epcot and DHS upgrades. For the next couple years you would also have to take out of that $420M the cost of Avatar, Disney Springs, and the Poly re-furb, no to mention the cost of smaller projects and infrastructure projects that we might not even be aware of. Bottom line is if they tried to do all these things WDW would be taking up the vast majority of the capital the plan to spend.
The other thing you need to consider is can they achieve the same goals be spending say $3B in the existing parks instead of building a new one.
When it comes to market, you really can't compare Uni and Disney. In 2012 Disney lead Uni in attendance by a gap of 34M people. So basically that meant that there were 34M people who came to Orlando, who like theme parks because the went to Disney, but didn't go to Uni. That is a huge untapped market for Uni. That equation is a lot harder for Disney, it's harder to determine how many more people they can potentially draw with new attractions.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I know a lot hate the Disney Springs and road work but it's really badly needed IMO.
Downtown Disney as it is now is just a complete mish-mash of places and I'm fine with it being more "one big shopping district" (while still being "separate"). It's just very much in need. And I get they want a mall to stop the outlet shoppers from leaving. And parking garages are BADLY needed. I know we all want that money to go into the parks but I give them a total pass on this project, even if I'm not a Disney foodie who has to visit every restaurant (or even much of a shopper!). WDW should have an impressive and well-done shopping district.
I also like the money they've spent on the articulated buses as well as the new paint scheme. They look VERY nice in person and give it a bit more class than the gawdy 90s purple and white busses. Again, IMO.
The problem it seems WDW faces is that they have SO many properties and instead of casually updating things and adding things as time goes on, they DID stop doing things for a while and now they're at the point where they are suddenly realizing (or being told) that the parks are stale and need updating. Badly. So they sort of screwed themselves into the situation they're in, and now they're afraid to spend the money on Epcot and DHS.
Downtown Disney as it is now is just a complete mish-mash of places and I'm fine with it being more "one big shopping district" (while still being "separate"). It's just very much in need. And I get they want a mall to stop the outlet shoppers from leaving. And parking garages are BADLY needed. I know we all want that money to go into the parks but I give them a total pass on this project, even if I'm not a Disney foodie who has to visit every restaurant (or even much of a shopper!). WDW should have an impressive and well-done shopping district.
I also like the money they've spent on the articulated buses as well as the new paint scheme. They look VERY nice in person and give it a bit more class than the gawdy 90s purple and white busses. Again, IMO.
The problem it seems WDW faces is that they have SO many properties and instead of casually updating things and adding things as time goes on, they DID stop doing things for a while and now they're at the point where they are suddenly realizing (or being told) that the parks are stale and need updating. Badly. So they sort of screwed themselves into the situation they're in, and now they're afraid to spend the money on Epcot and DHS.
DrewmanS
Well-Known Member
There is also California Adventure, Disneyland Paris, Tokyo Disney Resort, Hong Kong Disneyland, and soon to be Shanghai Disneyland. While the billions spent on these parks don't directly help WDW, all except California Adventure were subsidized by another company and/or government. So the Disney dollars could go farther. Adding these parks in other parts of the world not only creates new demand, it also shifts some demand from current parks. Adding a 5th gate is not likely until TDO is able to better utilize all of the existing parks capacity year round. They will likely add new "lands" or rides to existing parks at a slow pace to ensure that if they build it, they will come.
Remember, Universal benefits from NOT being Disney. Just because Universal can expand and draw in new guests, does not mean the same would be true for WDW. Some people buy Android because it is Not Apple. Some people like DC because it is NOT Marvel. If TDO had built Islands of Adventure, there is no guarantee it would have seen an increase in attendance equal to what Universal did. It might have been the same guest volume spread over another park (see California Adventure 1.0). That would be a costly mistake.
Remember, Universal benefits from NOT being Disney. Just because Universal can expand and draw in new guests, does not mean the same would be true for WDW. Some people buy Android because it is Not Apple. Some people like DC because it is NOT Marvel. If TDO had built Islands of Adventure, there is no guarantee it would have seen an increase in attendance equal to what Universal did. It might have been the same guest volume spread over another park (see California Adventure 1.0). That would be a costly mistake.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
And there is going to be a point where Universal rests on it's laurels for a while. It will happen. It's great (and much needed) that they are adding new attractions and lands and I know it will go on for several more years but it's almost always been a back and forth. And it really shouldn't be a competition between Universal and Disney. At the end of the day, they focus on a different set of customers, and many do cross over to both (like I do. I've always loved Universal but there's no denying that they were stale for years and most days it seemed absolutely dead). The fan community and the press has made it out to be more than it should be.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Yeah, they may be doing a lot now, but they still have a LOOOOOONG way to go before they reach Disney's level (even with the parks in their current state). I still enjoy both resorts and look forward to Diagon Alley, but being in Disney gives me a feeling like no other. It might be the Pixie Dust I've been reading about.
Mawg
Well-Known Member
You can discuss it all you want but prices will continue to go up and less built as long as people keep going.
BuddyThomas
Well-Known Member
I'm still waiting to see this alleged proof that WDW has done nothing to improve the parks in years............I mean yeqrs.
FettFan
Well-Known Member
"Bill Nye The Science Guy" went off the air in 1998. He's made a resurgence lately by promoting such important topics such as Darwinian evolution, Climate Change, and Dancing with the Stars.
But the man has aged. And he hasn't done it gracefully either.
Here is Bill Nye circa 1996:
And here is how he appears today:
The Jeopardy set has gone through 3-4 different iterations since then. The podiums used in Universe still have the light bulb score display.
Jeopardy has been digital since 2002 when they moved to flat LCD screens.
Also, Jamie Lee Curtis has gone from celebrated actress to celebrated mover of bowels thanks to Dannon Activia (TM) poop-yogurt.
I guess Ellen got the last laugh. Stupid Judy.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
But the man has aged. And he hasn't done it gracefully either.
Here is Bill Nye circa 1996:
And here is how he appears today:
... You know he's had health issues, right?
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Health issues?!?! Well, hell we can't have that kind of thing being exposed to public scrutiny. Throw him to the curb along with anyone that has aged. How dare they. Everyone knows that everyone that has had the nerve to age can no longer be trusted to have given or teach information about energy and the like.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but, if the best reason anyone can come up with is that Alex, Ellen, Jamie and Bill are no longer young, like it matters, there must be a better reason someplace. Most of the target audience probably do not know them anyway, so for them, this is currently what they look like. No one ages on film.
FettFan
Well-Known Member
You know that post was not to be taken quite so seriously, right?
I mean, I would have thought the phrase "poop-yogurt" would have given it away....
bebert
Well-Known Member
This may come as a shock to some of us but, there are people still making their first trip to WDW. To them it is the greatest thing ever, to those of us on boards like this we see all the things that are now gone or have changed. From a marketing perspective, Disney is doing exactly what they should be doing. How many first timers will go based on Frozen alone, how many millions will they spend. At some point, Disney will have to make the parks as "special" as we all remember them. The question is WHEN?
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I wasn't really talking about your contribution to the conversation, but, the long held belief of many that because the stars of some of the shows should be changed because they haven't managed to stay the same age. It happened with other shows as well. For the life of me cannot understand why that is a problem. Capt. EO, has a lot of criticism, and rightfully so, but no word about the age of MJ. In fact, now that he is dead, it's considered a positive. However, since the rest of these folks are still alive and have the audacity to get older, they they are no longer relevant and are dated. Even the simple shaving of a mustache caused stress to some.
I guess that being reminded that we are all either dead or getting older is uncomfortable for people to deal with.I'm sorry, it is the general idea that we can't still learn from and enjoy something due to the fact that the characters have gotten older, is just a sore point with me. There is no solution, people are people and are sometimes hard to understand.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
The problem I have has nothing to do with the age of the actors, but the age of the show. We're approaching 20 years since it's last update. With all the advancements that have happened since then Disney should be able to come up with something brand new that could really wow us. Maybe get in touch with IMAX? I just think that in FUTURE WORLD the attractions should be updated once in a while so they don't become dated. Just so you know I'm still a fan of what's there now, I just think there's a lot of potential for an update.I wasn't really talking about your contribution to the conversation, but, the long held belief of many that because the stars of some of the shows should be changed because they haven't managed to stay the same age. It happened with other shows as well. For the life of me cannot understand why that is a problem. Capt. EO, has a lot of criticism, and rightfully so, but no word about the age of MJ. In fact, now that he is dead, it's considered a positive. However, since the rest of these folks are still alive and have the audacity to get older, they they are no longer relevant and are dated. Even the simple shaving of a mustache caused stress to some.
I'm sorry, it is the general idea that we can't still learn from and enjoy something due to the fact that the characters have gotten older, is just a sore point with me. There is no solution, people are people and are sometimes hard to understand.
It is long past time to upgrade energy. If you look at the pavilion and see what it teaches about the supply of oil and gas it is just wrong. We are not about to run out of oil and gas. I think a new upgraded story is needed. After all is was just a few years ago in 2008 that the media was saying the United States will never be energy independent. Well its now just 6 years later and everyone knows we will not only be energy independent but will be a major exporter. That is a story that needs to be told.
The imagination pavilion also need to be returned to its former glory.
Horizons should be brought back. It was the continuation of CoP. I and everyone who ever saw it miss it. Finally WoL. Just doing these few things would do wonders for Epcot.
Finally bring in some more countries and rides in World Show case. It does not take much to bring Epcot back to its glory but never take away Food and Wine and Flower and Garden.
The imagination pavilion also need to be returned to its former glory.
Horizons should be brought back. It was the continuation of CoP. I and everyone who ever saw it miss it. Finally WoL. Just doing these few things would do wonders for Epcot.
Finally bring in some more countries and rides in World Show case. It does not take much to bring Epcot back to its glory but never take away Food and Wine and Flower and Garden.
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