Progress: It's Not Gonna Happen

pheneix

Well-Known Member
>>>They get paid licensing fees as well as feed to manage the resort.<<<

Disney gets only 7% of TDR's profits. They do not manage TDR in any manner, shape, or form. Oriental Land Company owns it.

>>>don't the executives also encourage them in what to put in<<<

Yes, creatively bankrupt accountants are making creative decisions at Disney. Kind of makes you feel all warm inside doesn't it?
 

Eeyore

Mrs. WDWMAGIC [Assistant Administrator]
Premium Member
Sorry for the drift- I just wanted to say how happy I am to see this thread. I hope it reminds others what this discussion board is for! It's not often that we see threads with these many pages with so few arguements. Keep up the great discussion, good work everybody! :D
 

BoyXE

Member
Tokyo clarifications

Having just returned in March from six months of work in Tokyo Disneyland (and hoping to go back next winter), a few thing should be cleared up.

Whoever said that the Disney Company has nothing to do with managing the resort is completely wrong. While most of the mundane management is indeed handled by OLC, it is under direct guidelines from WDC. Upper management, however, is a shared process. There are imagineering offices backstage in TDR. There are WDC offices. They are staffed year-round. My head manager was American, from WDC. OLC does indeed front all the money, but they do have to pay fees to WDC for the use of their content. And it is more than 7%, it is tiered--they get the highest percent of admissions, then a bit lower for merchandise, and least for other sales. I don't know the numbers offhand, but I believe it is 20%-15%-10%. These could be wrong, but I know they are stacked in this way. Somewhere I have it in my OLC handbook. OLC is truly just a management company that doesn't really even attempt much in the way of creativity over there. The Japanese know their strengths are in tasking, and they truly do leave the creative touches to the WDC employees that work there.

Trust me, everything over there is completely overseen by WDC. OLC is not allowed to make much of any decision without consent from a WDC sector. Even changing one line of dialogue in the show I was in required approval.

As for the 2.6 billion dollar pricetag of DisneySea, I do believe that it is just for the park alone, and not for Ikspiari or the monorail line. I'm not sure--but somehow it seems that for everything they added there (it was a lot) it woudl have cost more than that. But remember that the 2.6 billion also accounted for the sprawling MiraCosta hotel, which makes up an entire land of the park as well as having loads of convention spaces, a wedding chapel, and rooms that are lush. A lot of that cost must have went into that, as well as the immense detailing of the park.

I strongly recommend that anyone with the ability to visit the parks in Japan do so. They are great, and the Japanese cast are superb. But do remember that it due to a very large part of the Walt Disney Company's actions there that it is as successful as it is. Add to that the Japanese's IMMENSE (you haven't a clue how huge) addictions to Disney, and it's a recipe for huge success after the rocky opening of TDL 20 years ago. (Yes, even that park was poorly received at first if you check the history books!)
 

BoyXE

Member
And....

I forgot to mention, the folks who wrote those MousePlanet articles did a nice job, but they got a lot of things quite wrong about the parks. Usually when comparing things to the US versions, they made mistakes in their memory of what the US versions were. That and they were under the impression that OLC designed the parks, but we know the story there...
 
Originally posted by Jedi Osborn
Just to pick one of the many topics now floating around in this thread:
I don't think its all about the rides. Now before anyone gets excited, the rides are an integral part - no rides, no park. I understand that.
But there's so much more. They're adding M:S next year I'm very excited and can't wait to check it out. But after you're ridden it twice in one day, there's still a whole park around you and a whole resort around that. Disney is in the details. Anyone can build a roller coaster, anyone can build an innovative ride (Spider-man for example) but not just anyone can create the atmosphere that Disney has.
And it must be difficult in these relativily lean times keep the magic they have and yet still attract people.
So I get frustrated when I read posts abot how 'we need more rides, bigger rides, better rides'. Sure we do, but at a pace that is beneficial to the company and the park. If you want just rides, go to Cedar Point. It totally rocks, there are a ton of great rides, but its not Disney.


Just my two cents.

I love what you said and it is all too true. The reason Disney is so successful is detail detail detail. There is a reason Walt went up to his animators and story writes and said " Hey- you are going to design a theme parks...You are going to design a ride!!!!"

Here is a example......at IOA (not bashing this park, just a comparison) if there is no line for the Hulk....you run thru the quene and board the train and have a rush for 2 minutes.

In sharp contrast (all of you may not be like me but this is me) If there in no line for the Rock and Roller Coaster....you walk thru the quene...looking at all the memrobillia and I actually enjoy the pre-show time and time ago with Aerosmith.
Additionally, the video from the Tower of Terror is very entertaining and helps set the mood. When we go to Disney we get 2 things we really dont get anywhere else....we DO get thrilled (like many parks have to offer) but we also get entertained, told a story, solved a problem, witnessed a miracle....what have you. We keep going back for a reason...each ride gives you a sense of satisfaction...not to mention the detail you catch each additional time.

One things I love about Disney is how they pay attention to the details of their architecture...how the TTA winds thru every Tomorrowland ride...how the Walt Disney Railroad gets in inside glimpse on thunder Mountain and passes near a cabin always on fire.......how the Monorail give you a glimpse of what you will experience in Epcot before you disembark....other just DO NOT HAVE SUCH A WITTY, SUCCESFUL, and INGENIUS layout. And these are just scratching the surface of what Disney is.
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
>>>And it is more than 7%, it is tiered<<<

That's true. I was using the estimate for their total profits (merchendising, admission, the whole nine yards), which is around 7-10%.

>>>Trust me, everything over there is completely overseen by WDC.<<<

The contract they signed specified that they must provide entertainment of the upmost Disney quality, with supervision by Disney. It is overseen by the Disney representatives there, but the company itself has very little to do with what goes on in Japan. I did neglect to mention the WDC representatives at TDR by accident (especially since I almost launched into a rant about why I wish Eddie Sotto would have tried to come back over to the American parks after leaving TDR), my bad. The WDC reps do an excellent job in Japan with Oriental Land running the gritty work, and it shows what the creative types can do with relatively free reign.

On a side note, I should add that OLC has been trying to gain the experience to run theme parks WITHOUT Disney. Unfortunately, the recent spiral of the Japanese economy has put a damper on those plans, especially with business heading downward at the TDR recently (attendance is expected to be down next year). Of course it should be noted that it is the Japanese economy that is causing their recent downturn, and not problems at the resort itself. It should also be noted that this is just going to be a temporary blip on the radar, and probably will be a non-issue in a few years. Even with attendance down next year TDS will still be a smash success that exceeds the expectations originally laid out for it.

>>>As for the 2.6 billion dollar pricetag of DisneySea, I do believe that it is just for the park alone, and not for Ikspiari or the monorail line.<<<

President Kagami Toshio said in an interview that the park cost 338,000,000,000 yen, or roughly $2.88 billion. I remember reading in a Japanese newspaper that the entire resort expansion cost around $4 billion, but don't quote me on that.

BTW, Kagami also said in that interview that TDS will be getting a new first of it's kind E-ticket in 2005 at a cost of over $85 million. This should be interesting.

One more thing, if anyone here reads a column by someone at a Disney controlled fansite (no specific names given) about "the DisneySea attendance problem and how DCA is financially sound," don't put any stock in it, because

A.) The columnist in question is a f*****g liar, and...

B.) It is all a nice corperate lie to make the suits in Burbank happy.

Remember, you heard it here first. ;)
 

Sketch105

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Married@WDW

I'm not thrilled with what they're doing in China -- Tokyo and DL Paris are awesome because, while much of the Magic Kingdom parks are similar, they are also very unique in their own way. But from everything I've read about Hong Kong, it will be a miniature replica of MK, with no variation and nothing unique -- how sad!

I think globalization is good -- IF done right. I think Tokyo and Paris are done right, I'm reserving judgement on everything else.

I TOTALLY AGREE!!! I think what they are doing in Hong Kong is ludicrous. They're not even building a whole MK, nevermind it already being a copy of 4 other parks. I think they shoud really move on like Tokyo Disney Sea and Islands of Adventures. Rather than be copies of a successful formula, its a new park entirely. But that would be risky, and thats not what Disney wants to do these days!!
 

WeirdOne

New Member
Originally posted by pheneix
President Kagami Toshio said in an interview that the park cost 338,000,000,000 yen, or roughly $2.88 billion. I remember reading in a Japanese newspaper that the entire resort expansion cost around $4 billion, but don't quote me on that.

BTW, Kagami also said in that interview that TDS will be getting a new first of it's kind E-ticket in 2005 at a cost of over $85 million. This should be interesting.

First of all, I posted a real and official number from an official source pheneix. Maybe you should scour the posts more carefully. <---- sarcastic tone (just for clarity)

Second, the new attraction in 2005 will not be $85 million, but closer to $100 Million. I will try to find my source to back me up. And yes, if attendance is steady like now, the new attraction is at a good time, when guests finally have discovered about all there is (which I highly doubt ;)). - The WeirdOne :D
 

no2apprentice

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Disney Hong Kong, am I the only who keeps wondering why Hong Kong? I mean, that's great for all the bankers and major merchants who have a decent income in Hong Kong, but we're talking China! Unless I've missed something in the news, China still has a fairly low average family income. I'm the first to admit I am not a "world traveler" by any stretch, but I've always thought of Hong Kong as a banking and merchant city, not a vacation playground.:confused:
 

darthdarrel

New Member
Originally posted by no2apprentice
Speaking of Disney Hong Kong, am I the only who keeps wondering why Hong Kong? I mean, that's great for all the bankers and major merchants who have a decent income in Hong Kong, but we're talking China! Unless I've missed something in the news, China still has a fairly low average family income. I'm the first to admit I am not a "world traveler" by any stretch, but I've always thought of Hong Kong as a banking and merchant city, not a vacation playground.:confused:
Not to mention did anyone see the news and what happened in china over the weekend? and Does anyone remember Teanimin square? P.S . I`m sure I misspelled that! LOL! Not sure of the spelling. Has Disney ever heard of the WORD Human rights violations?
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
>>>Second, the new attraction in 2005 will not be $85 million, but closer to $100 Million.<<<

Well, here is the information straight from Kagmi's mouth (translastion courtesy of Marc Borelli of Laughing Place):

>>>We are considering adding a new attraction in Sea in 2005. It would cost over 10 billion yen. (In Japanese, the more literal translation is that the second digit in the figure is more then zero.) It would be the first attraction of its kind in the world... not even in Disneyland in the United States.<<<

I popped 10 billion yen into a currency converter, and that works out to be $85,324,232.00 at current exchange rates. Since Marc said that the second digit in the figure is more than zero, I decided to pop $100,000,000 into the converter. That works out to be 11,715,000,320. That would put the $100 million figure into focus, but I would like to see a complete translation of the amount in yen from the article before making any judgements.

OTH, it would not surprise me to see them spend over $100 million on a new E-ticket for TDR. DisneySea is on pace to have it's debts paid off within 5 years (and will be profitable in less than two). The park is nothing short of a smash success, and will certainly be treated well. In fact, DisneySea Synphony has just been overhauled for the new year.
 

cymbaldiva

Active Member
Wow! This is some very high-quality discussion! Ya'll please keep it up ....I am learning a lot from all of your comments! :sohappy:
 

Jedi Osborn

Active Member
Here is a example......at IOA (not bashing this park, just a comparison) if there is no line for the Hulk....you run thru the quene and board the train and have a rush for 2 minutes.

That's so true. We visit in slow times and ALWAYS run thru the queue lines for the Hulk and (sadly) the Dueling Dragons.

On a recent visit, we were in line for the RnR when we were told there were technical diffuculties and that the ride would be closing. We found out from a CM on the way out that there was a problem with the movie. THe coaster was fine. But Disney being Disney, they wouldn't let anyone ride until the whole experience would be right. While slightly frustrating, I certainly applaude their committment to showmanship.
This is my point, its all in the details. You other guys can convert yen to dollars all day, (no offense intended at all) but for me, as long as Disney continues to put on a great show, I'm happy:D
 

Mr. Toad

Active Member
How many discussions are going on in this thread? I've lost count.

Anyway, in reference to the question of would you go back to WDW if Mission Space wasn't opening the answer is yes I would but opening the new attraction would make me go back sooner and possibly more often. Even though we go to WDW about once a year, until this May I had never gone on the Rock N Roller Coaster (I admit it - it frightened me). I finally got up the courage and tried it on the last day of our trip as MGM was closing. I loved it so much we extended the vacation another day just to go back and ride it again. Now I am still trying to figure out how to squeeze in another quick trip to Disney in the near future so I can ride this "new" attraction (well its new to me).

So new attractions can have a positive effect even on the people who would go anyway. Maybe next time I should try TOT.
 

tenchu

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by no2apprentice
Speaking of Disney Hong Kong, am I the only who keeps wondering why Hong Kong? I mean, that's great for all the bankers and major merchants who have a decent income in Hong Kong, but we're talking China! Unless I've missed something in the news, China still has a fairly low average family income. I'm the first to admit I am not a "world traveler" by any stretch, but I've always thought of Hong Kong as a banking and merchant city, not a vacation playground.:confused:

Remember, Hong Kong has only been back under Chinese rule for about 4 years. By all reports, it is still very 'british,' but it is Chinese territory, so I'm not really sure just who the target audience is.
 

rmforney

Member
Originally posted by tenchu


Remember, Hong Kong has only been back under Chinese rule for about 4 years. By all reports, it is still very 'british,' but it is Chinese territory, so I'm not really sure just who the target audience is.

Hong Kong is supposed to be:hammer: <chuckel> a democratic teritory of China, not absorbed by the communist Chinese Government:lol: (Sorry, no matter hom many times I say that, it still makes me laugh) So that would be the reason to put a park in Hong Kong. But in main-land China???..... I didn't see what happened this weekend, so maybe one of you could elaborate, but I do rember the Ford Car plant being nationalized a while back. How would we all like that, a Disney park that suddenly is 100% controled by a foreign government, with NO input from Burbank?!?!?!? I'm not saying it will happen but it could and the president is there.....:mad:
 

tenchu

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by rmforney


Hong Kong is supposed to be:hammer: <chuckel> a democratic teritory of China, not absorbed by the communist Chinese Government:lol: (Sorry, no matter hom many times I say that, it still makes me laugh) So that would be the reason to put a park in Hong Kong. But in main-land China

Yup, thats what i was saying, but very few Chinese people would travel to hong kong i would imagine, and the population of hong kong would surely not be big enough to support it.

So I'm wondering what the target audience is?

I'm also surprised that they can find the space to build a park. Isn't Hong Kong overcrowded as it is?
 

no2apprentice

Well-Known Member
I also have it stuck in my head (right next to the cotton and spider webs) that the coastal area that Hong Kong is located has a high occurance of typhoons. Bad ones, too.
 

tenchu

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by no2apprentice
I also have it stuck in my head (right next to the cotton and spider webs) that the coastal area that Hong Kong is located has a high occurance of typhoons. Bad ones, too.

Hasn't Florida had a couple of little hurricanes? :confused: :wave:
 

no2apprentice

Well-Known Member
True, but at least Orlando is 50 miles from the coast. Hong Kong is right on the bay (I think - I'm trying to remember the photos I've seen).
 

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