darthdarrel
New Member
Ya but you want to attract the uncool teens to,no teens don`t have money,but their parents do and just like advertising,you attract the teens and the parents will buy! LOL!:lol:
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Progress: It's Not Gonna Happen
- Thread starter zarathustra
- Start date
cymbaldiva
Active Member
That is the same theory that is apparently being used for the Disney Stores as well....it doesn't seem to be working in the stores...
Hmmmm.....
Hmmmm.....
>>>Isn't it often these attractions that we as Disney fans are often most attached to? The Mr. Toads, the JIIs, the Horizons and Carousel of Progresses?<<<
Although Mr. Toad is obviously not an E-ticket, Horizons, Journey Into Imagination, and Carousel of Progess were the biggest things to ever hit the theme park industry when they opened, particularly COP.
Although Mr. Toad is obviously not an E-ticket, Horizons, Journey Into Imagination, and Carousel of Progess were the biggest things to ever hit the theme park industry when they opened, particularly COP.
darthdarrel
New Member
There are things for teens in there????? Where? All I see are things for children anymore! Even the adult things are going by the wayside!
cymbaldiva
Active Member
Thank you Merlin! :sohappy: You are very much on top of things...I'm sorry I didn't see your post sooner to congratulate you on it! It does unfortunately appear that Disney is just looking at short term $$ as opposed to long term investment...it's the same thing that the company I work for is doing, and I am very sure that they will be sorry in the long run...
Peace Ya'll!
cymbaldiva
Active Member
Originally posted by darthdarrel
There are things for teens in there????? Where? All I see are things for children anymore! Even the adult things are going by the wayside!
Sorry dear - that's what I meant!
I should've been more clear...the Disney Stores are trying to appeal to those who have no money (much like some want the parks to )- We all see how well that's working out! Peace Ya'll!
I would have to say from looking at your list that you kinda stretched out the 2nd "Golden Age" a bit too much. I do love MGM and am sure it was as cool back then, but just because good rides come every once in a while doesn't mean the time they opened was a very thriving time for Disney. Good movies, for instance, always come out, every year. But just because they alone were great movies, does't mean the time they came out was a "golden age" of movies.
With the amount of money Disney spends at one time for brand new amusement parks, I would think they would have been able to build a large amount of good attractions at one time. But instead it seems like Disney makes the excuse that "because we are currently spending a lot of money on so-and-so attraction, we can't spend much for anything else." But then look at IOA. With that park, many expensive rides were paid for, built, and opened at the same time. THe same goes for building any new park. So my theory is, the next time Diseny gets enough moolah to build another park, they should instead use the money to build new things at existing parks, and we could get a hefty amount of E-Tickets opening around the same time.
cymbaldiva
Active Member
I see that point too, but IOA is a park I'll never visit. Why? Because its a thrill park...I'd love to see it, but I'm not going to spend the $$ to get into a park that has nothing for me to do.
Originally posted by cymbaldiva
I see that point too, but IOA is a park I'll never visit. Why? Because its a thrill park...I'd love to see it, but I'm not going to spend the $$ to get into a park that has nothing for me to do.
Ok, that's fine and all, but I think you missed my point. I meant that with all the money spent on IOA, you'd think Disney could do the same ting, except spend the money on new attractions.
And Disney should have the money to do this with. Plus, they'd gain from better attendance and happier guests with more to do in the parks.
darthdarrel
New Member
This is my point exactly!
instead of spending billions on new parks in tokyo and china,just spend those billions on new rides for the 2 main theme parks Disneyland California and Disney world florida! I saw that special on Disney seas in Tokyo and While it looks Awesome they mention that ,Disney seas itself cost billions of dollars to build alone and they also built a Disnyland in Tokyo and Disneyland In Paris France and NOW they are building a Disneyland in Communist China!Can you imagine the wonderful Rides they could build for Disney world and Disneyland with that money?
MonorailBlack
Member
I see what you are saying and it is a great point. I imagine they see it like this, mathematically.......new stuff in a current park in the US will just bring back loyal visitors....creating a small percent of increased revenue....WHEN COMPARED TO...a new park means new admission revenue...new souvenir revenue....new food revenue...new hotel revenue...and so forth...I am sure that new parks around the park will bing in people who wont fly to their other parks and also make people who fly to the other parks once a year visit the new park closer to home more often. I dont like it....becuase I would love to see more stuff added to what we have, but still Orlando has the best piece of Disney anywhere!!!!
>>>Why? Because its a thrill park...I'd love to see it, but I'm not going to spend the $$ to get into a park that has nothing for me to do.<<<
You do realize that there are only four coasters in the entire park don't you? Heck, one of them is a kiddie coaster. There aren't really any other physically intense attractions at IOA other than the three big coasters (okay, the final drop on Dudley Do Rights is a vicious SOB, but once you figure out how to brace yourself, no problems there!).
Any comments that say that IOA is "nothing but a thrill park" do not have any base on what the park offers what so ever (but you haven't been, so you're not speaking from experience).
If you can ride the Tower of Terror or Rockin' Roller Coaster, then nothing at IOA is to intense for you at all.
You do realize that there are only four coasters in the entire park don't you? Heck, one of them is a kiddie coaster. There aren't really any other physically intense attractions at IOA other than the three big coasters (okay, the final drop on Dudley Do Rights is a vicious SOB, but once you figure out how to brace yourself, no problems there!).
Any comments that say that IOA is "nothing but a thrill park" do not have any base on what the park offers what so ever (but you haven't been, so you're not speaking from experience).
If you can ride the Tower of Terror or Rockin' Roller Coaster, then nothing at IOA is to intense for you at all.
Disneynutcase
New Member
Hi. Joining late.
Was at Knotts Berry Farm all day yesterday. Isn't that now a Cedar Point park? Their new ride Accelerator is an outdoor coaster rip-off of RnRC--including coaster trains that look like long stretch automobiles. But Ghost Rider is the grand poobah bomb of all wooden coasters--that baby goes so damned fast up and down the hills.
Now onto this topic.
To Pheneix: Horizons?!! Hello? Are you nuts? As much as I love Epcot, that ride never drew the crowds that all the other Future World attractions drew. Hell, there'd be more people in the old Communicore sections (now Innoventions) than there would be people standing in line for Horizons. It's why they knocked it down, dude! And cutting edge or "E" ticket it was not. So you got to push a little button at the end of the ride to see a lame movie version of desert, space or sea. A bit of fun? Yes. But state-of-the-art, I think not. But just my opinion. And believe it or not, I did like that ride quite a bit.
But personally, I find Mr. Toad's Wild Ride to be of greater importance and significance Disneywise than Horizons ever was. It was a Walt original and goes way-way back in Disney theme park history--if I'm not mistaken to DL's opening.
To everyone else: I find this thread to be one of the most fascinating ever on this board. Very nice intelligent exchange of dialogue.
I look at the whole Disney theme-park picture and have to think that Disney sees more $$$ (both long-term and short-term) in building a new park than they get in putting in a plethora of new rides in their current parks. Overall, it's a delicate tradeoff because a hot new ride does draw people to a current park.
But overall, MK and DL never really hurt for business ever.
Epcot has been great, used to draw really nice crowds, but has been given the short shrift over the last decade because of the other "new" Disney parks. Hopefully M:S will be the beginning of many Epcot new cutting-edge attractions to help revitalize the park--although I do admit to enjoying the smaller crowds.
Disney Studios actually kind of sucked a decade ago and was a rip-off for admission price until they added ToT--just not enough to do there to warrant an entry price equal to MK or Epcot.
AK and DCA are actually great parks but are disappointing because in comparision to their older cousins, they just aren't up to speed yet. But give them both another 4-5 years with true Disney commitment to improve both, and this discussion we're having will be moot. Of course, this means Disney needs to commit themselves into improving and adding to both parks. The fact that ToT is coming to DCA is a hopeful sign. The fact that nothing new of yet has yet to be truly green-lit for AK is scary--because it means they might not add anything cool there for quite some time.
However, what really concerns me in all this is Disney's new focus on the foreign parks. Yes, this gives Disney opportunity to exploit new areas of the world and rake in $$$ that could trickle stateside. But my fear is that we'll be seing Disneyland Korea, Disneyland South Africa, Disneyland Moscow, etc. as Eisner and his peers start to believe that better money can be made by bringing Disney themeparks to various parts of the planet rather than concentrating on drawing these people to Florida and Southern California.
The fact that the sub lagoons at both MK and DL sit empty with no real advertized plan for revitalization really unnerves me. The old CoP at DL sat empty for over a decade before Disney brass behooved themselves to put a defacto Innoventions into the building (and it sucks wads, too.)
Point is, I applaud Disney for wanting to find new and innovative ways to make money, but they need to trickle some of the new cool stuff stateside.
Or, to put it another way, I've been green with envy after watching the Travel Channel special on TDS--too many very cool non-stateside attractions at that beautiful park with no set plan as of yet to bring any of it our way.
It's time Disney said something...anything about what they are building next, particularly at WDW. We've known about M:S for a while. Hell, they won't even say what the 2004 overall advertizing plan/celebration will be. Disney freaks need to know or we get antsy.
End of rambling.
Was at Knotts Berry Farm all day yesterday. Isn't that now a Cedar Point park? Their new ride Accelerator is an outdoor coaster rip-off of RnRC--including coaster trains that look like long stretch automobiles. But Ghost Rider is the grand poobah bomb of all wooden coasters--that baby goes so damned fast up and down the hills.
Now onto this topic.
To Pheneix: Horizons?!! Hello? Are you nuts? As much as I love Epcot, that ride never drew the crowds that all the other Future World attractions drew. Hell, there'd be more people in the old Communicore sections (now Innoventions) than there would be people standing in line for Horizons. It's why they knocked it down, dude! And cutting edge or "E" ticket it was not. So you got to push a little button at the end of the ride to see a lame movie version of desert, space or sea. A bit of fun? Yes. But state-of-the-art, I think not. But just my opinion. And believe it or not, I did like that ride quite a bit.
But personally, I find Mr. Toad's Wild Ride to be of greater importance and significance Disneywise than Horizons ever was. It was a Walt original and goes way-way back in Disney theme park history--if I'm not mistaken to DL's opening.
To everyone else: I find this thread to be one of the most fascinating ever on this board. Very nice intelligent exchange of dialogue.
I look at the whole Disney theme-park picture and have to think that Disney sees more $$$ (both long-term and short-term) in building a new park than they get in putting in a plethora of new rides in their current parks. Overall, it's a delicate tradeoff because a hot new ride does draw people to a current park.
But overall, MK and DL never really hurt for business ever.
Epcot has been great, used to draw really nice crowds, but has been given the short shrift over the last decade because of the other "new" Disney parks. Hopefully M:S will be the beginning of many Epcot new cutting-edge attractions to help revitalize the park--although I do admit to enjoying the smaller crowds.
Disney Studios actually kind of sucked a decade ago and was a rip-off for admission price until they added ToT--just not enough to do there to warrant an entry price equal to MK or Epcot.
AK and DCA are actually great parks but are disappointing because in comparision to their older cousins, they just aren't up to speed yet. But give them both another 4-5 years with true Disney commitment to improve both, and this discussion we're having will be moot. Of course, this means Disney needs to commit themselves into improving and adding to both parks. The fact that ToT is coming to DCA is a hopeful sign. The fact that nothing new of yet has yet to be truly green-lit for AK is scary--because it means they might not add anything cool there for quite some time.
However, what really concerns me in all this is Disney's new focus on the foreign parks. Yes, this gives Disney opportunity to exploit new areas of the world and rake in $$$ that could trickle stateside. But my fear is that we'll be seing Disneyland Korea, Disneyland South Africa, Disneyland Moscow, etc. as Eisner and his peers start to believe that better money can be made by bringing Disney themeparks to various parts of the planet rather than concentrating on drawing these people to Florida and Southern California.
The fact that the sub lagoons at both MK and DL sit empty with no real advertized plan for revitalization really unnerves me. The old CoP at DL sat empty for over a decade before Disney brass behooved themselves to put a defacto Innoventions into the building (and it sucks wads, too.)
Point is, I applaud Disney for wanting to find new and innovative ways to make money, but they need to trickle some of the new cool stuff stateside.
Or, to put it another way, I've been green with envy after watching the Travel Channel special on TDS--too many very cool non-stateside attractions at that beautiful park with no set plan as of yet to bring any of it our way.
It's time Disney said something...anything about what they are building next, particularly at WDW. We've known about M:S for a while. Hell, they won't even say what the 2004 overall advertizing plan/celebration will be. Disney freaks need to know or we get antsy.
End of rambling.
cymbaldiva
Active Member
Oh ick - so many issues to discuss...
Firstly, I do not generally ride anything that goes upside down...RnR is of course an exception. If all looping coasters had a kewl soundtrack, I would ride them. ToT shouldn't even count....I don't do thrill rides and I ride it!
Secondly, the reason I've never been to IOA is because it's advertised as a thrill park - why would I spend so much money to just see if I'll like it? When I'm on vacation, every cent counts - I'm not wasting $$ on something that doesn't sound interesting to me.
Perhaps if IOA has something more to offer they should advertise that as well?
Peace Ya'll!
Firstly, I do not generally ride anything that goes upside down...RnR is of course an exception. If all looping coasters had a kewl soundtrack, I would ride them. ToT shouldn't even count....I don't do thrill rides and I ride it!
Secondly, the reason I've never been to IOA is because it's advertised as a thrill park - why would I spend so much money to just see if I'll like it? When I'm on vacation, every cent counts - I'm not wasting $$ on something that doesn't sound interesting to me.
Perhaps if IOA has something more to offer they should advertise that as well?
Peace Ya'll!
cymbaldiva
Active Member
Disneynutcase -
Glad you're enjoying the discussion...Please do not knock on Horizons though... the ending was well done for it's time.
You'll have to forgive me...I love Horizons, and I really hate anyone making light of it being "knocked down"
Glad you're enjoying the discussion...Please do not knock on Horizons though... the ending was well done for it's time.
You'll have to forgive me...I love Horizons, and I really hate anyone making light of it being "knocked down"
cuteypatooty78
New Member
Man, too bad I can't ride RNR...Thats the one bad thing about being in a wheelchair, ya miss out on all the thrill rides. Thats why I'm hoping Haunted Mansion will be open on the 21st, I'd hate to miss it!
Thats why I'm hoping Haunted Mansion will be open on the 21st, I'd hate to miss it!
cymbaldiva
Active Member
I hope so for you....I love HM too! Have a great time on your trip - wish I was there to enjoy it with you!
Disneynutcase
New Member
Cymbaldiva--
Just my opinion but it seems like a lot of people on these boards over romanticize Horizons for being much more than what it was. I'm not saying that I didn't like the ride. It was okay, if not reasonably good. But personally, I think even in '83 they could've done A LOT more with the overall concept of the "new frontiers." Perhaps it didn't work as a major attraction for me because it was yet another ride-thru anamatronic thingy like SSE, WOM, and the original Figment ride. And the ending choose-your-destination thing never did blow me away.
And frankly, I'm surprised that they haven't tried to reinvision Horizon's concepts with a much more up-to-date cutting-edge retake. But perhaps that's in the works.
Not to be cruel or to flame anyone, but if Horizons was a truly classic ride, then it would still be at Epcot entertaining the masses. Fact is, people never really flocked to it in great numbers, not even when it opened--not in comparison to the longevity of SSE and Living With the Land.
In fact the irony of Epcot as it stands now is that the Horizons, UoE, and WoM side of the park used to lack for crowds in comparison to the other side of FW. And now its the other way around--in fact when M:S opens, that area will be a freakin' zoo. It's bad enough with the crowds it gathers for TT. I loathe to think about what that area will be like next year.
And back to the original discussion, the pessimistic view that there will be no progress at WDW or any stateside Disney park is simply ridiculous. Disney is always committing $$$ to improve the parks. It's what they've always done. It's what they always will do.
I think the bigger concern, to summurize what everyone else has been saying, is that of late Disney has been underwhelming us with half-baked mediocre attractions. The "new" Tomorrowland at DL that opened in '99 and tanked soon after is a prime example.
But I see both M:S and Philharmagic as well as Flicks Fun Fair (much needed kid area) and ToT at DCA as hopeful signs that Disney and its parks are striving to improve themselves.
And like so many of you, I'm dying to know what's next since there are so many possiblities and so many darned rumors floating about.
Just my opinion but it seems like a lot of people on these boards over romanticize Horizons for being much more than what it was. I'm not saying that I didn't like the ride. It was okay, if not reasonably good. But personally, I think even in '83 they could've done A LOT more with the overall concept of the "new frontiers." Perhaps it didn't work as a major attraction for me because it was yet another ride-thru anamatronic thingy like SSE, WOM, and the original Figment ride. And the ending choose-your-destination thing never did blow me away.
And frankly, I'm surprised that they haven't tried to reinvision Horizon's concepts with a much more up-to-date cutting-edge retake. But perhaps that's in the works.
Not to be cruel or to flame anyone, but if Horizons was a truly classic ride, then it would still be at Epcot entertaining the masses. Fact is, people never really flocked to it in great numbers, not even when it opened--not in comparison to the longevity of SSE and Living With the Land.
In fact the irony of Epcot as it stands now is that the Horizons, UoE, and WoM side of the park used to lack for crowds in comparison to the other side of FW. And now its the other way around--in fact when M:S opens, that area will be a freakin' zoo. It's bad enough with the crowds it gathers for TT. I loathe to think about what that area will be like next year.
And back to the original discussion, the pessimistic view that there will be no progress at WDW or any stateside Disney park is simply ridiculous. Disney is always committing $$$ to improve the parks. It's what they've always done. It's what they always will do.
I think the bigger concern, to summurize what everyone else has been saying, is that of late Disney has been underwhelming us with half-baked mediocre attractions. The "new" Tomorrowland at DL that opened in '99 and tanked soon after is a prime example.
But I see both M:S and Philharmagic as well as Flicks Fun Fair (much needed kid area) and ToT at DCA as hopeful signs that Disney and its parks are striving to improve themselves.
And like so many of you, I'm dying to know what's next since there are so many possiblities and so many darned rumors floating about.
darthdarrel
New Member
Please correct me if I`m wrong,but I was told that the reason Horizons was torn down was not because of lack of attendance but that it was Structurelly unsound and that it was caving in.Like I said I`m not sure of this,but that`s what I was told.
cymbaldiva
Active Member
All I said was that I really love Horizons and that I don't appreciate you speaking so lightly of it's demise. Enough said.