cymbaldiva
Active Member
Thank you as well!
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Progress: It's Not Gonna Happen
- Thread starter zarathustra
- Start date
Thank you as well!
MonorailBlack
Member
Originally posted by cymbaldiva
Thanks for backing me MonorailBlack! It was SOOO not 10 years ago!
No problem....that is my favorite ride of ALL TIME....I bet competitors are so jealous...I mean the ride...darkness....speed...launch...THEMEING...and most of all AEROSMITH....what a ride!!!!!
cymbaldiva
Active Member
No kidding! It has really spoiled me - I only want to ride coasters w/ a soundtrack! And even worse, after I get back from Disney when I'm driving and an Aerosmith song comes on, I just automatically lean back in my seat like I'm about to take off!
Re: Re: Progress: It's Not Gonna Happen
I don't think anyone is saying that Eisner wasn't great at one time. As a matter of fact, he deserves tremendous credit for breathing new life into the company in the mid-80's. But in the last several years, he has run out of steam and become grossly out of touch. You make reference to Disney "history" here and that's exactly what Eisner's successes are. Most of the examples in support of Eisner and the company's creativity are old ones.
Also, several people on this thread have defended the cutbacks and "bottom line" approach being made by the company as being good for the shareholders. That really shows a lack of business savvy. Ask any stock broker or financial analyst about Disney stock and they'll tell you that Disney is not a short-term investment. Disney's current management doesn't represent long-term strategy. They're after the quick buck. The problem with that thinking is it hurts the company over the long run and I think that's what is occuring now.
I don't think anyone is saying that Eisner wasn't great at one time. As a matter of fact, he deserves tremendous credit for breathing new life into the company in the mid-80's. But in the last several years, he has run out of steam and become grossly out of touch. You make reference to Disney "history" here and that's exactly what Eisner's successes are. Most of the examples in support of Eisner and the company's creativity are old ones.
Also, several people on this thread have defended the cutbacks and "bottom line" approach being made by the company as being good for the shareholders. That really shows a lack of business savvy. Ask any stock broker or financial analyst about Disney stock and they'll tell you that Disney is not a short-term investment. Disney's current management doesn't represent long-term strategy. They're after the quick buck. The problem with that thinking is it hurts the company over the long run and I think that's what is occuring now.
cymbaldiva
Active Member
Hey Merlin -
You have it all going on!! IMHO you have really hit the nail on the head. The first time DH and I went to WDW together was in 94, and it ruled! We were pretty much spoiled for a couple of years.
And then came the cutbacks...
Actually there were so many that it would take too much time to go into it all...a few of my "favs" were...(in random order :lol
1. Shampoo dispensers in the moderates as opposed to the Mickey soaps and shampoos - thank goodness that went away!
2. No straws in the moderate food courts due to enviromental concerns, but completely available in the Deluxes ...does this mean that the enviroment doesn't matter if you pay enough for your room?
3. Did anyone here ever go to MVMCP in the mid 90's? Fewer tickets sold to the party, tables everywhere with cookies (good ones , not the cheapie ones they have now), and characters everywhere. The first couple of times we went were so just like the commercials - we could just walk up to the characters!
Point being....anyone how visits often enough notices the cutbacks, and they do hurt!
You have it all going on!! IMHO you have really hit the nail on the head. The first time DH and I went to WDW together was in 94, and it ruled!
We were pretty much spoiled for a couple of years. And then came the cutbacks...
Actually there were so many that it would take too much time to go into it all...a few of my "favs" were...(in random order :lol1. Shampoo dispensers in the moderates as opposed to the Mickey soaps and shampoos - thank goodness that went away!
2. No straws in the moderate food courts due to enviromental concerns, but completely available in the Deluxes ...does this mean that the enviroment doesn't matter if you pay enough for your room?
3. Did anyone here ever go to MVMCP in the mid 90's? Fewer tickets sold to the party, tables everywhere with cookies (good ones , not the cheapie ones they have now), and characters everywhere. The first couple of times we went were so just like the commercials - we could just walk up to the characters!
Point being....anyone how visits often enough notices the cutbacks, and they do hurt!
I had exactly the same reaction the first time I visited after they placed those dispensers in the showers. I still remember when each individual resort had their own unique soaps and shampoos. That's exactly the type of small touch that, when they cut it, saves a few bucks initially. But after a while, they're just gradually chipping away at everything that makes Disney special. That devalues the company over the long run because those are the types of things that make people come back. I don't know about the rest of you, but I personally don't want people running the company who can't see that.
darthdarrel
New Member
I too think that Eisner did a great job in the 80`s,but lately,as was said before,his steam has gone out of him!
Not to mention I think What has gone on here is his sidekick died! after that He didn`t know what to do. and as far as TOT and rock n roller coaster Ok so it wasn`t 10 years ago it was a blanket statement! I`m just saying that With the Money that Disney makes,they can afford to atleast build a good E ticket ride with AWESome Themeing every other year!
Disney has soo much property ,That to date is VACANT,not to mention , THey have places in the park that are just sitting there like 2,000 leagues area! You can`t say they don`t have the money cause they are Pouring Big bucks into building new parks like Disney seas tokyo and now China!
Not to mention I think What has gone on here is his sidekick died! after that He didn`t know what to do. and as far as TOT and rock n roller coaster Ok so it wasn`t 10 years ago it was a blanket statement! I`m just saying that With the Money that Disney makes,they can afford to atleast build a good E ticket ride with AWESome Themeing every other year!
Disney has soo much property ,That to date is VACANT,not to mention , THey have places in the park that are just sitting there like 2,000 leagues area! You can`t say they don`t have the money cause they are Pouring Big bucks into building new parks like Disney seas tokyo and now China!
WDWGarden
New Member
You're absolutely right...in fact, that is pretty much WHAT THEY DO!!! A quick timeline off the top of my head of the big stuff starting with opening of Studios...IMO the beginning of the second golden age of Disney theme parks:
89: Disney-MGM Studios
92: Splash Mountain
94: Tower of Terror
95: Blizzard Beach
97: Test Track
98: Animal Kingdom
99: Rock 'n Roller Coaster
03: Mission: Space, PhilarMagic
And that's just the big stuff. Also in this short span of time there was the new Pooh ride, Chester & Hester's (whether you like it or not), Alladin Flying Carpets, Imagination Rehab (Twice, again whether you like it or not), HISTA, Buzz Lightyear, Alien Encounter, and Massive expansion of incredibly themed resorts that we all love.
And that's just Florida. DCA, DLP, WDS Paris, DisneySea, HK Disneyland in the works. Walt Disney Attractions has given us TONS of great new experiences. Also note, even the second rate, D-ticket attractions are on the cost level of most parks E-ticket attractions.
A new great attraction every other year...I think that would be a step back!!
WDWGarden
New Member
You're absolutely right...in fact, that is pretty much WHAT THEY DO!!! A quick timeline off the top of my head of the big stuff starting with opening of Studios...IMO the beginning of the second golden age of Disney theme parks:
89: Disney-MGM Studios
92: Splash Mountain
94: Tower of Terror
95: Blizzard Beach
97: Test Track
98: Animal Kingdom
99: Rock 'n Roller Coaster
03: Mission: Space, PhilarMagic
And that's just the big stuff. Also in this short span of time there was the new Pooh ride, Chester & Hester's (whether you like it or not), Alladin Flying Carpets, Imagination Rehab (Twice, again whether you like it or not), HISTA, Buzz Lightyear, Alien Encounter, and Massive expansion of incredibly themed resorts that we all love.
And that's just Florida. DCA, DLP, WDS Paris, DisneySea, HK Disneyland in the works. Walt Disney Attractions has given us TONS of great new experiences. Also note, even the second rate, D-ticket attractions are on the cost level of most parks E-ticket attractions.
A new great attraction every other year...I think that would be a step back!!
>>>A quick timeline off the top of my head of the big stuff starting with opening of Studios<<<
You do realize it will have been FOUR YEARS since a new E-ticket when Mission Space opens, don't you? And Philharmagic will not be an E-ticket, not by a long shot (the motion base floor has already been cut out of the show, and most of the in-theater effects that were planned probably won't survive Pressler's upcoming budget axe).
>>>DCA, DLP, WDS Paris, DisneySea, HK Disneyland in the works.<<<
The only park listed there that Disney actually built is DCA (and you can definitely tell it was a Disney park). The rest were built by outside companies (or a communist government) that hired the Imagineers to do the creative work for them.
You do realize it will have been FOUR YEARS since a new E-ticket when Mission Space opens, don't you? And Philharmagic will not be an E-ticket, not by a long shot (the motion base floor has already been cut out of the show, and most of the in-theater effects that were planned probably won't survive Pressler's upcoming budget axe).
>>>DCA, DLP, WDS Paris, DisneySea, HK Disneyland in the works.<<<
The only park listed there that Disney actually built is DCA (and you can definitely tell it was a Disney park). The rest were built by outside companies (or a communist government) that hired the Imagineers to do the creative work for them.
AkiraRaptor
Meega, nala kwishta!
I knew those French were working for the KGB... :animwink:
disneyfamily
New Member
I'm all for building new thrill rides or adding new lands to the various parks. But, I wonder how much money does it take to maintain what they already have. Not just WDW but corperately. They have 6 theme parks and who knows how many employees, just in the USA. If anything they should be commended for keeping it up as well as they have. Plus they must know they will never please everyone. The people who cry "We want new rides" are the same ones who cry " Why did you tear down Mr. Toads Wild Ride or change JII or demolish Horizons or......etc.
WDWGarden
New Member
RnR opened mid 1999, M:S scheduled for Early 2003...I'll give you 2 1/2, maybe 3 years. However, previous to RNR, there were 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS of major attraction additions to WDW, on of which was A WHOLE NEW PARK!!! I'd still say that's pretty aggressive.
And as for the parks around the world...who cares who paid for them. The fact is they are new Disney experiences for you to have. Does Mission: Space not count as an E-ticket because Compaq paid for a chunk of it?? True, the imagineers were contracted out, essentially, for these new parks, but Disney still owns the attraction concepts that came out of this work, and can duplicate it over here. Maybe one day we'll get something from DisneySea. Disney got someone else to pay for the R & D and gets to reap the benifits around the world...pretty awesome business savey if you ask me!
People have pointed to Cedar Point in this discussion and asked, "why can't WDW build as aggressively as them??" Did a little research (too much time on my hands today) and CP built 8 major attractions since '89...by my count, WDW built 5 new attractions, the world's most popular water park, and 2 new theme parks. Where is the disparity???
>>>RnR opened mid 1999, M:S scheduled for Early 2003...I'll give you 2 1/2, maybe 3 years.<<<
RnRC opened in August of 1999, and Mission Space will open in May 2003 (maybe by Spring Break, but I wouldn't count on it). That's 3 years and 9 months, or roughly 4 years.
>>>there were 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS of major attraction additions to WDW<<<
3? In 1996 there was nothing, in 1997 Test Track was *supposed* to open, and in 1998 we got the hacked down Animal Kingdom.
>>>The fact is they are new Disney experiences for you to have.<<<
Not when they are halfway across the world.
>>>Where is the disparity???<<<
Cedar Fair is an amusement park company that can't even dream of getting the revenues that Disney's Parks and Resort division has, and the Walt Disney Company is a media conglomerate that turns in billions upon billions of profits every year. Well, they used to anyway. Cedar Fair added attractions as hard and as fast as they could, and they have rewarded for it by a large base of returning visitors. Disney started out on the same path, and now they have aborted that mission in favor of "sitting back and reaping the return on their investments."
>>>But, I wonder how much money does it take to maintain what they already have.<<<
Not so much that the parks and resorts division didn't bring in $1.6 billion in profits last year.
RnRC opened in August of 1999, and Mission Space will open in May 2003 (maybe by Spring Break, but I wouldn't count on it). That's 3 years and 9 months, or roughly 4 years.
>>>there were 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS of major attraction additions to WDW<<<
3? In 1996 there was nothing, in 1997 Test Track was *supposed* to open, and in 1998 we got the hacked down Animal Kingdom.
>>>The fact is they are new Disney experiences for you to have.<<<
Not when they are halfway across the world.
>>>Where is the disparity???<<<
Cedar Fair is an amusement park company that can't even dream of getting the revenues that Disney's Parks and Resort division has, and the Walt Disney Company is a media conglomerate that turns in billions upon billions of profits every year. Well, they used to anyway. Cedar Fair added attractions as hard and as fast as they could, and they have rewarded for it by a large base of returning visitors. Disney started out on the same path, and now they have aborted that mission in favor of "sitting back and reaping the return on their investments."
>>>But, I wonder how much money does it take to maintain what they already have.<<<
Not so much that the parks and resorts division didn't bring in $1.6 billion in profits last year.
darthdarrel
New Member
PLEASE listen to what I typed E-TICKET RIDE!!!!Not parks or dumbo type rides.
WDWGarden
New Member
That seems like a pretty narrow view to take...In a discussion about progress at WDW, we don't get to count new parks??? Odd...
And on Dumbo-type rides, I suppose you are meaning the smaller, non-e-ticket attractions in general. Isn't it often these attractions that we as Disney fans are often most attached to? The Mr. Toads, the JIIs, the Horizons and Carousel of Progresses? None of these could be counted as E-ticket attractions, but are among the most loved of all disney rides. There have been a steady stream of these smaller attractions in recent years...Alien Encounter, Primeval Whirl, Buzz, Millionaire, Pooh. These attractions are just as important to making their respective parks great as Space Mountain and Tower of Terror. Why do they not count as progress at WDW.
Why is everyone so focused on the next big thing?? Why not enjoy and appreciate the many smaller big things along the way.
darthdarrel
New Member
Because it is the Big things that atract People. Specially the teen population and as was stated in another thread The attendance is down,alot of that is due to 9 1 1 and the economy, but alot of it to, is that universal attacts the Teen crowd more then Disney does and the way to get the teen crowd is to get more E ticket/ BIg Rides in. YEs I agree with you I too enjoy the "little" things about Walt Disney, but then I`m 35.:lol:
darthdarrel
New Member
yes it has my friend!
cymbaldiva
Active Member
While I really do see your point, not like teens really have any $$ anyway - and all the really kewl teens are into Disney anyway! :animwink: