Price Hikes Galore! (Genie+ variable pricing, ILL, refillable mugs, SWGE lightsaber and droids)

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
That may have a minor impact but the pathways were barely passable in places, it’s pretty bad when you watch a video of a Disney park and your first thought is you’re glad you’re not there.

I think Genie+ and ILL have a bigger effect than you think -- certainly not the only factor, but the parks aren't built for a bunch of VQs.

There are a lot of people just milling about waiting for their next scheduled ride rather than in line. They need a significant portion of guests waiting in standby lines for capacity to work; the parks were designed to have most guests in line at any given time instead of having thousands and thousands of guests trying to just kill time.

FP+ also had this issue, but I think it may have been ameliorated by most guests having everything scheduled in advance. If you knew you had a 6 hour gap between now and your next FP+, may as well wait in line for some other rides. With Genie+, I'm guessing at least some people are just grabbing whatever's available relatively soon.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
That may have a minor impact but the pathways were barely passable in places, it’s pretty bad when you watch a video of a Disney park and your first thought is you’re glad you’re not there.

Thing is, they've actively caused that congestion in a lot of places.

There used to be way more room on the promenade around most of World Showcase.

They've eaten into that over the years by adding more and more dinging and retail to the water side, also taking away nighttime show viewing areas in the process which pushes more people into the still available spots. On top of that, the almost permanent addition of festival booths along most of the path and the "temporary" ques set up to accommodate them make that whole span even worse for both day guests and nighttime event audiences.

In the Magic Kingdom, they had a multi-year project to expand the hub to make that more passable during fireworks (because it was already a real problem even before the castle projection), including the setup of the "grass" viewing areas. Then after doing all of that, they started rolling out shows that require front-of-castle viewing to fully experience, pushing more people into that area and then back down mainstreet. Plus, they took those new viewing spots originally designed to reduce crowding and turned them into up-sell viewing areas.

Similarly, they boxed in that center area of Hollywood Studios to make a limited viewing area for their nighttime events that also has the effect of increasing congestion on busy days through that area.

Likewise, of course, Genie+ (and FP+ and to a much lesser degree original FP before it) have the problem of allowing people to both simultaneously be in an imaginary line while also out wandering around all day.

And of course, they ignore choke points like that initial area into Adventureland from the hub where work could be done to improve things but isn't.

So yes, they've gotten busier but poorly planned retail, an apparent loss of desire to expand walkways where needed (remember back when they put the boardwalk along Fronteerland/Liberty Square and added the extra bridge in the hub to make those areas more passable? They stopped doing that kind of stuff inside the parks, it seems) and various forms of up-sells have a lot to do with, it, too.

Stupid things like the queue for People Mover that now routinely spills out into the general walking area of Tomorrow Land in a straight line causing something everyone else has to walk around or cut through, that is at least as long as the permanent queue which needs to be redesigned/expanded (and could be, cheaply, compared to other issues) continue to go unaddressed which don't help, either. Having someone with a "line starts here" sign at the back of that mess isn't a solution. :rolleyes:
 
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Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Thing is, they've actively caused that congestion in a lot of places.

There used to be way more room on the promenade around most of World Showcase.

They've eaten into that over the years by adding more and more dinging and retail to the water side, also taking away nighttime show viewing areas in the process which pushes more people into the still available spots. On top of that, the almost permanent addition of festival booths along most of the path and the "temporary" ques set up to accommodate them make that whole span even worse for both day guests and nighttime event audiences.

In the Magic Kingdom, they had a multi-year project to expand the hub to make that more passable during fireworks (because it was already a real problem even before the castle projection), including the setup of the "grass" viewing areas. Then after doing all of that, they started rolling out shows that require front-of-castle viewing to fully experience, pushing more people into that area and then back down mainstreet. Plus, they took those new viewing spots originally designed to reduce crowding and turned them into up-sell viewing areas.

Similarly, they boxed in that center area of Hollywood Studios to make a limited viewing area for their nighttime events that also has the effect of increasing congestion on busy days through that area.

Likewise, of course, Genie+ (and FP+ and to a slightly lesser degree original FP before it) have the problem of allowing people to both simultaneously be in an imaginary line while also out wandering around all day.

And of course, they ignore choke points like that initial area into Adventureland from the hub where work could be done to improve things but isn't.

So yes, they've gotten busier but poorly planned retail an apparent loss of desire to expand walkways where needed (remember back when they put the boardwalk along Fronteerland/Liberty Square and added the extra bridge in the hub to make those areas more passable? They kind of stopped doing that kind of stuff inside the parks, it seems) and various forms of up-sells have a lot to with, it, too.

Stupid things like the que for People Mover that now routinely spills out into the general walking area of Tomorrow Land in a straight line causing something eveyone else has to walk around or cut through, at least as long as the permanent que which continue to go unaddressed don't help, either - having someone with a "line starts here" sign at the back of that mess doesn't really help.
Any business would want to dream up more ways to increase revenue ( ie more food and dining options ). If that means clogging the areas, then that's reality .
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Any business would want to dream up more ways to increase revenue ( ie more food and dining options ). If that means clogging the areas, then that's reality .
Except it's isn't a zero sum game.

They managed to add the Space restaurant without impacting crowding in any busy guest area at all.

There are expansion pads across World Showcase that could handle some of this stuff even in a semi-temporary (decade or two) kind of way, including the area in front of the Rat ride, especially when it comes to "mixed-use" festival stuff.

What are they saving that for, exactly?

I know we all hate to see expansion pads "wasted" but look at the Frozen Meet-and-Greet. A country could have gone there - it isn't like they're going out of their way to hold onto these spaces for those countries and attractions we'd all like to see appear, is it?

... But they went the cheapest easiest route with the things they added rebar for and they continue to treat the festival booths and their queues like a "temporary" inconvenience for a set of festivals that have been almost all year round and are now, with the spine redesign, being treated as an absolutely permanent part of the park experience.

Why continue to pretend like all those booths junking up the space are a temporary thing and not design for them to have better permanent placement?
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
As much as we all hate price increases, the reservation system, Genie, etc what’s the solution to overcrowding?

I was just watching a video from DL from last week and it was packed to the breaking point, the hoops we have to jump through to get reservations, the parks being more expensive than ever, the breakdowns, the bad show, etc doesn’t seem to be impacting attendance at all.

Short of dropping APs and significantly raising the price I don’t know what else they could do, and honestly I’m not even sure that would work. It’ll be interesting to see how Dec attendance is at DL with 2 full weeks of no APs.

I’m not even sure expanding their parks could offset the demand at DL and MK at this point, there’s just not enough suitable land to satisfy the demand.
Crowding is relative. It is something that can be shaped and controlled. Disney has mastered this. That is what should really be telling by the 2001 attendance estimates, they were past the point of the parks at Walt Disney World feeling less crowded while but didn’t actually have the same visitation. This is what Disney has really mastered in recent years, it doesn’t matter if it’s a lightly attended day or a heavily attended day, they’re going to feel a lot more similar.

Disney now has a reservation system in place. They control it. Absolutely nothing stops them from capping reservations at a number more in line with a traditional design day based on each park’s hourly operating capacity.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Stupid things like the queue for People Mover that now routinely spills out into the general walking area of Tomorrow Land in a straight line causing something everyone else has to walk around or cut through, at least as long as the permanent queue which needs to be redesigned/expanded (and could be, cheaply, compared to other issues) continue to go unaddressed which don't help, either. Having someone with a "line starts here" sign at the back of that mess isn't a solution. :rolleyes:

Another example of this in MK would be HM.

There used to be a store to the left of the current entrance gates called the Keelboat Shop (aka Ichabod's Landing). It's now storage space, but you couldn't access it now anyways because the line often goes past those gates, even if the posted wait is only 30 min.

They expanded the HM queue to the north in 2011 with the interactive area, but they still have the line spill out past Harbor House and sometimes need the Keelboat dock/ramp too. What used to be space for two attraction queues and retail is now all queue area for one ride....that's a high capacity, continuously loading thing!

Space is so poorly managed in this park and Genie+ is not helping.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Except it's isn't a zero sum game.

They managed to add the Space restaurant without impacting crowding in any busy guest area at all.

There are expansion pads across World Showcase that could handle some of this stuff even in a semi-temporary (decade or two) kind of way, including the area in front of the Rat ride, especially when it comes to "mixed-use" festival stuff.

What are they saving that for, exactly?

I know we all hate to see expansion pads "wasted" but look at the Frozen Meet-and-Greet. A country could have gone there - it isn't like they're going out of their way to hold onto these spaces for those countries and attractions we'd all like to see appear, is it?

... But they went the cheapest easiest route with the things they added rebar for and they continue to treat the festival booths and their queues like a "temporary" inconvenience for a set of festivals that have been almost all year round and are now, with the spine redesign, being treated as an absolutely permanent part of the park experience.

Why continue to pretend like all those booths junking up the space are a temporary thing and not design for them to have better permanent placement?
It’s not even an issue of temporary versus permanent. That post you quoted is a perfect example of the problem with “business thinking” and the completely disconnected world of making experience decisions based on spreadsheets.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Another example of this in MK would be HM.

There used to be a store to the left of the current entrance gates called the Keelboat Shop (aka Ichabod's Landing). It's now storage space, but you couldn't access it now anyways because the line often goes past those gates, even if the posted wait is only 30 min.

They expanded the HM queue to the north in 2011 with the interactive area, but they still have the line spill out past Harbor House and sometimes need the Keelboat dock/ramp too. What used to be space for two attraction queues and retail is now all queue area for one ride....that's a high capacity, continuously loading thing!

Space is so poorly managed in this park and Genie+ is not helping.

Of course, Disney's found the solution that fixes all of this for them - up the price of Genie+ and ILL and people will continue to pay so they don't get stuck in what looks like a nightmare of a line so large their full queue is unable to contain it, on a daily basis. 👍
 
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Lilofan

Well-Known Member
It’s not even an issue of temporary versus permanent. That post you quoted is a perfect example of the problem with “business thinking” and the completely disconnected world of making experience decisions based on spreadsheets.
Business thinking of WDW is looking at temporary moving food and wine kiosks to onstage areas during the year when festival goes on. During higher attendance numbers like 12/25-31 , kiosks moved to backstage to allow more volume of guests onstage such as World Showcase. Disney has been doing that for years.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Your responses made it sound like only ignorant rubes would never travel abroad, rather than it simply being a matter of people having different interests.
A post of a member describing guests as ignorant. I've described peers as not wanting to travel abroad, no more no less, not as ignorant.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
If you’re talking about history or size or number of dark rides, no, someplace like Dollywood can’t compete with WDW. But if you visit theme parks to have a pleasant time, enjoy good food, and experience quality service, then yeah DW competes and, arguably, excels. When you factor in what you get for your dollar, DW looks even better. And I understand that it doesn’t accommodate young children as well as it might, but Uni competes with WDW right now on any other terms. Disney’s “market leader” status in everything other then market share is increasingly questionable.

Basically, clinging only to WDW is like turning down a comfortable, reliable, good-looking Acura for a Lamborghini even though Lamborghini recently doubled prices and added that controversial giant-spike-jammed-into-your-groin feature.

By the way, this post is the most supremely condescending I’ve seen in the thread.
To add to that what I find fascinating is that with how much many Disney fans kind of look down on parks like Dollywood you would think those parks do poorly. Then when you look at attendance the top ones hit over 3 million a year.
 

Tom P.

Well-Known Member
Basically, clinging only to WDW is like turning down a comfortable, reliable, good-looking Acura for a Lamborghini even though Lamborghini recently doubled prices and added that controversial giant-spike-jammed-into-your-groin feature.
I have been to many parks other than Disney. Dollywood is great. Heck, King's Island is great. But they are still not Walt Disney World.

I *like* Walt Disney World. I liked it 30+ years ago when I first went and I still like it today. I'm not "settling" for something as if it were the only vacation option available. I go because I want to.

If other people think Disney is no longer enjoyable or worth their money, fine. But what bothers me is that it really seems to irritate people around here that there are still those, like me, who actually like the Disney parks.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
To add to that what I find fascinating is that with how much many Disney fans kind of look down on parks like Dollywood you would think those parks do poorly. Then when you look at attendance the top ones hit over 3 million a year.
I think a lot of people like other parks too. But when it comes to planning a 7-10 day vacation, they may find WDW has a greater variety of things to experience.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I have been to many parks other than Disney. Dollywood is great. Heck, King's Island is great. But they are still not Walt Disney World.

I *like* Walt Disney World. I liked it 30+ years ago when I first went and I still like it today. I'm not "settling" for something as if it were the only vacation option available. I go because I want to.

If other people think Disney is no longer enjoyable or worth their money, fine. But what bothers me is that it really seems to irritate people around here that there are still those, like me, who actually like the Disney parks.
And after all the debate that's the bottom line. Lol, more than being mad at the Bob's, they're mad that people still enjoy it.
Like the previous poster who gave all these reasons why folks spend their money there but never thought that they simply have a good time as a possibility
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Eh. It's an opinion board so come prepared to defend your opinion and know more than likely you will be teased, mocked, or insulted because of it. It's called "life" and get some perspective and a little thicker skin.

If you come in here and say "The current state of Epcot is amazing, I can't wait to take my family!!!" or "WDW is in fantastic shape and the guest experience has never been better!!!" - yeah, expect to be mercilessly mocked and ridiculed.
Which is really sad and it's the same attitude we have in the country that's working so well 😏
So basically your saying people here unable to state an opinion without being nasty and tearing others down
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member

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