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Press event Tuesday, Jan. 18th.
- Thread starter raven
- Start date
T-1MILLION
New Member
Yep, that is what happens whens something is done tastefully and right. A well done show with all the heart put into it feels 'magical.'
David S.
Member
Nope, I have no interest in "bashing" TDO for the sake of arguing. If that's what you think, take a look at my posting history and recent largely positive trip reports in the TR forum**. I have a history of being very positive about the parks, including MANY attractions that the majority of fanboys dislike and routinely bash. If I was just looking to "bash' TDO, it would have been very easy to join in the chorus against things like Stitch, Animal Kingdom, and the new Pixar parade at the Studios, but I did not.
As I've stated numerous times, I honestly LOVE Toontown and find it cute and charming. I appreciate all the little in-jokes and gags found inside the houses, and the references to classic Disney shorts found inside the homes and in the music loop.
I'm sorry if this is so hard for you to believe that some people actually love and enjoy Toontown. You may want to check out those links I posted earlier that show the appeal of the section, none of which were written or filmed by me*
But suggesting (without mentioning names) that anyone who loves and will miss Toontown is just looking for an excuse to bash "TDO" and argue is WAAY out of bounds.
PS. I really enjoy Sounds Dangerous and Magic Carpets of Aladdin, as well!
The "binaural" headphone effect on Sounds Dangerous and it's postshow is amazing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording ). And the Magic Carpets was a way to get some Aladdin references and music into the park, which I enjoy. And I appreciate that it was the rare new attraction that DIDN'T come at the expense of another one! Granted, I will agree that an Aladdin dark ride would have been even better, but I have no issue with the Carpets.* Toontown Tributes:
http://www.mouseplanet.com/9501/A_Tribute_to_Mickeys_Toontown_Fair
http://www.mouseplanet.com/9500/My_Disney_Top_5__Top_5_Souvenirs_Id_Like_From_Mickeys_Toontown_Fair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G5inzqY8BY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zTcK-FKBb0
** My largely positive recent "Trip Reports"
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=682672
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=683430
CrescentLake
Well-Known Member
@David S.- So would you be upset if they ripped out the generic magic carpets/Replaced Sounds Dangerous? Because I can't wait for them to do that...
At any rate, I loved the show. Granted, I only saw a video, but I got chills. Walt at the end was perfect. Disney quality for sure. Now why can't they adapt this for the Animal Kingdom and make it a form of temporary night entertainment before we get something really good? I think if they lost the photos and used the projections on the Tree of Life to tell the story of animals or some thing, coupled with other show elements, it would make for something to do in that park after it gets dark.
At any rate, I loved the show. Granted, I only saw a video, but I got chills. Walt at the end was perfect. Disney quality for sure. Now why can't they adapt this for the Animal Kingdom and make it a form of temporary night entertainment before we get something really good? I think if they lost the photos and used the projections on the Tree of Life to tell the story of animals or some thing, coupled with other show elements, it would make for something to do in that park after it gets dark.
David S.
Member
That depends entirely on what they were being replaced with. My point was that I enjoy them, and if I were "just looking for an excuse to bash TDO", it would be all too easy to join the chorus of hate around here for these attractions.
CrescentLake
Well-Known Member
I'm not joining the chorus of hate. The reason people hate these attractions is because, well, they suck. I'm partial to attractions that others deem controversial or bad, such as Monster's Inc. Laugh Floor and the Backlot Tour, but I recognize the opinions of others regarding them and respect them.
Personally, if the carpets were ripped out and replaced with a decent looking plaza (as it was), I would be fine with the loss of an attraction. I don't care WHAT they replace Sounds Dangerous with, anything, please.
David S.
Member
You see, though, you saying they "suck" is simply your opinion stated as fact. I wasn't saying you are hating on them just to hate. If you honestly hate them, then you aren't "bashing just to bash". But my point was, since I honestly do like them, if I was looking just to "bash TDO", I could have just gone along with bashing them for the sake of having something to bash TDO about. Because for me, since I honestly do enjoy these attractions - if I were to complain about these, that's what it WOULD have been - bashing just to bash.
I think what happens around here is that certain attractions get a reputation in the online fanboy communities as being "Universally hated", and then when someone like me who HONESTLY enjoys them states their honest opinion - such as with Toontown - some people think they are just being "difficult" or "trolling" or being a "contrarian".
But I can't help it if I honestly have different taste than most fans. You'd be surprised at what some of my LEAST favorite attractions are, and they are usually NOT the ones nearly "universally hated" on here.
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
I think the castle projections are amazing. And for the haters - at least it is temporary. Would you rather they do something like this:
I couldn't agree more! The castle projections are amazing!!
I just wish you hadn't posted that picture of the castle.
NYwdwfan
Well-Known Member
Sorry...sometimes a visual is the best way to get people's attention.
(I know - I cringe every time I see it too!!)
pax_65
Well-Known Member
David, just curious if you saw my (much) earlier post about enjoying classic attractions because they bring back feelings of nostalgia about riding them when you were young or riding them with your kids or whatever. (If you did and replied my apologies - this thread grew faster than I could read it!)
My point was that an attraction should entertain, excite, inspire, inform, etc. on its own merits. Provoking nostalgia is great - I think we all feel that when we walk in the Magic Kingdom - but that alone shouldn't be a reason to keep an attraction.
We're all entitled to our opinions, but here's a fact. Technology has moved far beyond what was used many years ago in the Snow White attraction. Today, dark rides can be far more immersive and interactive than ever before. That doesn't mean Snow White has to be like Spiderman (although personally I think that might be cool to a point), but even if they used the latest AAs, effects, sound, video, etc. they could do so much more than what they are doing now.
Maybe the real crime here is that the attraction wasn't upgraded all along with these things as the technology became available. Then Snow White would be more along the lines of Haunted Mansion instead of an attraction using out-dated technology.
Keep in mind... when WDW opened the technology was state-of-the-art and left people in awe. That's what I think Disney should strive for in every attraction. Obviously that's not always possible with budgets and such, but that should be the ultimate goal. That's what Walt would have wanted for the park.
The old attractions like Mr. Toad, Snow White, Horizons, etc. will always be beloved in a special way by us Disney fans. I went online and watched both Horizons and Toad and remembered them both fondly. But WDW was never intended to become a museum to itself. As Walt said, the park will never be done, it will constantly change.
And so it is now changing before our eyes...
MMFanCipher
Well-Known Member
Just watched the projections on the castle and I was impressed. It is a
lot better than I thought it would be.
Also, does anyone know when SWSA is going to close?
lot better than I thought it would be.
Also, does anyone know when SWSA is going to close?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
As ugly as that was, I do find it sad that the modern Walt Disney Company is not really interested in engaging in such levels of pomp.I think the castle projections are amazing. And for the haters - at least it is temporary. Would you rather they do something like this:
David S.
Member
Yes, I saw it. But as you said, you must have missed my reply where I stated my love of the Snow White ride is NOT based on nostalgia! The current version DOES "entertain" and "inspire" me on it's own merits!
If I continue my response, I'll have to repeat a bunch of things I've already said in this thread already, and people may accuse me of beating a dead horse (although I'm only responding here since you addressed me directly).
You must have missed the whole discussion I had with Rich about technology vs Art. I'll try to sum up.
Just because an attraction has more modern technology, IMO that does not automatically make it Artistically superior. It's A Wonderful Life was shot on "outdated" black and white film and it's a cinematic masterpiece. The great Beatles albums from their later period of studio experimentation were recorded on primitive, "outdated" 4-track equipment, yet they arguably stand the test against most modern music recorded in state-of-the-art studios with the "latest and greatest" equipment.
Likewise, my love of the Snow White ride is based on it's masterful storytelling, the beautiful artwork, the characters, the songs, and the genuine EMOTION it makes me feel - such as the happy goosebumps I feel in the Happily Ever After seen.
Frankly, I've NEVER even noticed that the technolgy of the ride was now considered "lacking". And even when the technology of the Snow White ride was new and, as you say, "awed people", it never awed me. That's because I never really notice technology - my love of the ride was always based on enjoying the STORY. I'm just not a technology-oriented person; other's mileage may very. Some of my favorite WDW attractions, like Affection Section at AK and the Horse Cars on Main Street, have nothing to do with technology. And there are park attractions that use more "updated" technology where I don't care for the atmosphere they create and the stories they tell, so I don't care for those "technologically superior" attractions as much as I care for the "simpler" so-called "outdated" ones like Snow White and Toontown.
So to sum up, the main things I wanted to express is:
a) I enjoy the ride for it's Artistic merits. I couldn't give a care if it has supposedly "flawed" technology. And more importantly:
b) My love of the ride is NOT based on "nostalgia", or "trying to recapture the past" or "childhood memories".
It works it's MAGIC and INSPIRES me NOW. TODAY. IN THE PRESENT. In fact, I've enjoyed it just as much in 2011 as I ever have!
EDIT - Pax 65 - Here's is a link to one of my first posts in this thread which probably sums up better than ANY of them what I get out of this ride on an Artistic, Aesthetic level, TODAY and IN THE PRESENT (especially the second half of that post where I break down what I get out of the ride, scene by scene):
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=4413226&postcount=188
FigmentJedi
Well-Known Member
Besides being essentially an upgrade attractionwise, if the Princess Meet and Greet makes way for a new dark ride all together, it'll all be worth it.
Tom
Beta Return
Hmmm. Good point. As fugly as the cake was, it was a far cry more demonstrative than the banners they simply hang up these days to "celebrate".
WDW FTW
Member
Wow all this talk about nostalgia and reliving stuff and walt and what not im just realizing something. Though im relatively young, like not yet 18, i'm realizing that when i first went to WDW in '99 that they added a few things, RocknRoll was in the making but i wasnt tall enough to ride until my 2nd year haha, then they added stuff like mission space everest the stunt car show, took out things like body wars, added primevil whirl but nothing major like the whole fantasyland expansion and minecar stuff, its gonna be weird getting used to a giant chunk of what was my childhoods disney being altered. I'm sure ill get used to it once im there but wow. what a thought once i took a step back and looked at the big picture from that perspective
dweezil78
Well-Known Member
This is one of Disney's biggest problems these days. They will not do anything without a focus group. Steve Jobs has one of my favorite quotes when it comes to this -- "It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
Focus groups to not produce greatness. They produce safeness.
Besides, does the park really need two mine train rides (and two kiddie coasters) within such close proximity? Seems very uninspired to me.
pax_65
Well-Known Member
David, thanks for recapping your reply. As I said, this thread is just insane - I've been totally unable to keep up with it.
Even though I love new technology, I don't disagree with you regarding art and technology. Art has to come first. Look at Splash Mountain. At the heart of that is a great story. Then you have absolutely beautiful scenes and wonderfully executed AAs. I would never want to muddy that up with 3d glasses, video screens or whatever - it works really, really well as is.
I do disagree with you regarding SWSA, though. Although I think the story of Snow White is great, I don't think the attraction does that great of a job telling it. (You'd be lost if you didn't already know the story - as I found out from my kids who hadn't seen the movie when they first rode it.) The scenes and sets in the attraction are ok but nothing special - not technologically advanced, and not particularly beautiful or engaging artistically either. Disney can do better, and hopefully they are in the process of doing that.
My opinion, and your opinion differs. But that's how it is with art. Hopefully the new attraction will be so good that this discussion is soon rendered moot.
Even though I love new technology, I don't disagree with you regarding art and technology. Art has to come first. Look at Splash Mountain. At the heart of that is a great story. Then you have absolutely beautiful scenes and wonderfully executed AAs. I would never want to muddy that up with 3d glasses, video screens or whatever - it works really, really well as is.
I do disagree with you regarding SWSA, though. Although I think the story of Snow White is great, I don't think the attraction does that great of a job telling it. (You'd be lost if you didn't already know the story - as I found out from my kids who hadn't seen the movie when they first rode it.) The scenes and sets in the attraction are ok but nothing special - not technologically advanced, and not particularly beautiful or engaging artistically either. Disney can do better, and hopefully they are in the process of doing that.
My opinion, and your opinion differs. But that's how it is with art. Hopefully the new attraction will be so good that this discussion is soon rendered moot.