PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Yeah, frontierland is a separate budget. Also very unlikely to touch the Rivers, as Martin mentioned.
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Possible Frontierland expansion
- Thread starter doctornick
- Start date
Yeah, frontierland is a separate budget. Also very unlikely to touch the Rivers, as Martin mentioned.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
He may be King of the Wild Frontier, but that doesn't mean he belongs in Frontierland. They should put Davy Crockett in the Norway Pavilion where he belongs.
That's my impression. So, what I wonder is what exactly is the plan that was funded for MK. It could be a collection of a lot of smaller things like updates to rides like BTMRR, PPF, Space, etc. and/or replacements for Wishes/MSEP. Or we could see a new construction. $350M is a lot of money even for Disney's bloated budgets.
TimeTrip
Well-Known Member
Every time I've been since its early years the jumping fountains (when working the way I presume they're supposed to) stop jumping as soon as the logs get close. They're not supposed to be hopping over the log AFAIK. Quite the tease.
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
Big Thunder, Country Bears and Splash will probably be covered in New Frontierland's $400 to 500 million budget. One new attraction, even an E-ticket shouldn't cost that much.
I could see $350 million being spread around the non-Frontierland/POTC attractions to get everything else up to par for the 50th. But I imagine Space Mountain, Peter Pan and CoP are the three that need refurbs the most. Pooh, HM and IASW could use enhancements, but it's not urgent.
Lengthy refurbs for Pooh, HM and IASW
Update for HoP for 2016/2017.
Complete revamp of Space Mt
Complete revamp of PPF (includes increased hourly capacity... even if it's by a small amount)
Revamp for the Speedway if we have to keep it
Update of CoP
If it meant fixing up most of MK, I'd be okay with postponing Stitch/Laugh Floor replacements. And I would think any parade or fireworks show would get their own separate budget closer to the 50th (2018/2019).
Glad to hear TDO might actually increase MK's attraction count for once. Not just repurpose an existing area.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Seems like the $350M will be for a DAK like makeover with plussing lands, shops and eateries. See Harambe, Flame Tree and Outfitters and other adds that do not include major adds like RoL or Pandora.
And now it seems like they are considering FL as they may just need the capacity for the 50th. If capacity is the driving force then it makes sense to leave other attractions as they are such as TSI and riverboat. At least until after the 50th. Interesting times.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Big Thunder, Country Bears and Splash will probably be covered in New Frontierland's $400 to 500 million budget. One new attraction, even an E-ticket shouldn't cost that much.
I could see $350 million being spread around the non-Frontierland/POTC attractions to get everything else up to par for the 50th. But I imagine Space Mountain, Peter Pan and CoP are the three that need refurbs the most. Pooh, HM and IASW could use enhancements, but it's not urgent.
Lengthy refurbs for Pooh, HM and IASW
Update for HoP for 2016/2017.
Complete revamp of Space Mt
Complete revamp of PPF (includes increased hourly capacity... even if it's by a small amount)
Revamp for the Speedway if we have to keep it
Update of CoP
If it meant fixing up most of MK, I'd be okay with postponing Stitch/Laugh Floor replacements. And I would think any parade or fireworks show would get their own separate budget closer to the 50th (2018/2019).
Glad to hear TDO might actually increase MK's attraction count for once. Not just repurpose an existing area.
/headdesk.
$350 will not accomplish all that. Not even with a coupon.
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
I doubt TDO will touch Frontierland for another 15-20 yrs after New Frontierland is finished.
The only way TSI/Riverboat will be shuttered is once they've drastically increased capacity. Frontierland has two possible expansion pads beyond RoA, while Adventureland has one (behind POTC/JC) and Tomorrowland has three (between CoP/Space, the MS parking lot, and the area behind Space/Speedway). There's also underutilized space (building on top of CoP, Stitch, Laugh Floor, the Speedway, Storybook Circus... specifically the tents area, the space behind BoG for a dark ride) beyond the major expansion pads.
If New Frontierland doesn't remove Tom Sawyer or RoA, nothing will for at least 40-50 yrs IMO, unless they've fully built out every nook and cranny outside of Frontierland. It helps that Disney doesn't have a lot of thematically appropriate IPs for the area lol
Lone Ranger, Home on the Range and Woody's Roundup are slim pickings haha.mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
New Fantasyland cost $425 million and that included rockwork and actual construction. Why would refreshing the current attractions cost over $350 million? Unless TDO is lying about NFL, and it really cost $600-700 million. If no real construction is involved, some lengthy refurbs shouldn't cost more than $350-400 million.
If that's really that outlandish, then they should just fix everything that's absolutely dire: Space Mountain, the Speedway, CoP and Peter Pan. Space is in disrepair, CoP is horribly dated, the Speedway smells awful and doesn't fit Tomorrowland, while Peter Pan is dated and a capacity nightmare. If $350 million can't fix 4 already-existing attractions, people need to be fired... seriously... Universal could revamp 8-10 attractions with that kind of budget. SeaWorld could fix 60-65% of their park
TDO can't even spruce a few things up for less than $400 million... so sad.
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Frontierland doesn't really need another E-Ticket... It's really popular and cramped with people with Splash and Thunder as it is.. Adventureland and Tomorrowland is the land that needs help with a new E-Ticket.
slaball1
Member
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
The real reason they're expanding Frontierland is probably because of the bottleneck by Splash/Big Thunder. Nothing to do with 'Frontierland needing an E-ticket'.
If they manage to create a new pathway behind Big Thunder/HM, guest congestion would be so much more manageable.
I do agree that Adventureland and Tomorrowland need more help, but in the long run, increasing capacity at MK is a win regardless of which land.
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
Assuming it is approved, New Frontierland would most likely get a similar budget as New Fantasyland. Especially if it's supposed to get an E-ticket.
Nothing's confirmed yet, but it's apparently somewhat close to a greenlight. If all goes well.
Nothing's confirmed yet, but it's apparently somewhat close to a greenlight. If all goes well.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Adventureland has just as many E tickets as Frontierland. Frontierland has Big Thunder and Splash Mountain, Adventureland has Jungle Cruise and Pirates of the Caribbean. Actually they have three each if you count the non-ride animatronic shows Tiki Room and Country Bear Jamboree (which were considered E's).
In actuality it's Fantasyland and Tomorrowland that have the fewest E tickets. Tomorrowland just has Space Mountain (horrid condition aside). Fantasyland originally had two, Small World along with 20,000 Leagues. Fantasyland of course lost one of those back in 1994 and still hasn't received a suitable replacement (neither Mermaid nor Mine Train are E's).
What Frontierland needs is a lengthy high capacity and efficient ride that doesn't have a height limit. Something it doesn't have at the moment. Both Splash and Big Thunder are high capacity, but they both have a height restriction. And while Splash is long, some people aren't into thrills or potentially being soaked. I welcome another E ticket if it's something like Pirates, Haunted Mansion or any of the original EPCOT Future World classics. The land has enough thrills, but a long and immersive ride experience (even an E ticket) sounds like a good idea. Whatever they build over there is likely to cause an increase in crowds regardless of how they go about it, so i'm a supporter of them building something high quality and high capacity that anyone can ride.
You think so? Unless Disney has become infinitely more hopelessly bloated than they already were when building New Fantasyland, one would think that $350 million could go a long way in improving even a fair amount of existing attractions. Spreading that budget out simply to refurbish (or in a couple of cases moderately plus) even a fairly large handful of existing attractions seems like it could be reasonably possible. Those armchair imagineering proposals seem to me relatively minor compared to New Fantasyland, which required completely new infrastructure, rides and expensive scenery such as rockwork. Not that New Fantasyland turned out great or anything, but it definitely had its expenses.
But it sounds like we don't really know where this money is going in the first place, it may not even have anything to do with existing attraction refurbs/plussing. I'm guessing a new fireworks show is in the works (as teased by Martin on several occasions). I don't know how much that might cost, but a lot of the infrastructure is already done (castle projection). Would still probably cost a substantial amount though. I'm also guessing they can't continue to run MSEP forever either, and i'm sure a new night parade wouldn't come cheap (unless we inherit Dreamlights or just don't even give us a new one at all).
SirLink
Well-Known Member
@MerlinTheGoat - If they did build a new E-ticket in Frontierland you can bet your bottom $ it would include rock work making it expensive again.
IMFearless
Well-Known Member
My thoughts for what it's worth:
- The expansion pad to the north of BTM/TSI would be in the firework fallout zone would it not?
- If they extend walking paths north behind BTM (from where Splash restrooms are) there is going to be a lot of sight lines to consider, you have the massive show building for Splash, the workshops for BTM trains as well as the huge parade storage building.
- TSI is well loved and I think Disney realise (surely?) that docking the Liberty Belle or filling in the ROA would be a mistake
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Didn't say it wouldn't have rockwork, i'm guessing it will as well. The latest news however has stated that the rumored Frontierland expansion is a separate and different budget from the $350 million approved for the rest of MK. We have no idea how much the Frontierland expansion costs at the moment (assuming it gets greenlit). It depends on how many rides/attractions there are, but it's likely somewhat substantial if an E ticket is included.
The Magic Kingdom has a separate $350 million budget allocated, already greenlit and approved apparently (it's part of the $3.5 billion WDW overhaul, the bulk of which is going to DHS). We don't really know what this $350 million is going towards, but i'd guess it's not going towards building new rides and attractions (except perhaps a new night night show).
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SirLink
Well-Known Member
You were on about this:
That is what I'm on about any expansion of Frontierland would include that expensive place setting stuff like rockwork
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Not sure what your point is. Again, I never denied that the Frontierland expansion would contain rockwork, I agree it probably will.
That quote was about a separate subject entirely, regarding the $350 million going towards the REST of Magic Kingdom. The $350 million discussed is NOT related to Frontierland's expansion apparently, both marni1971 and PhotoDave219 have mentioned that there are two separate budgets here with Frontierland not cutting into the $350 million. As I stated, we don't know how much the Frontierland budget is. We don't even know for sure if the expansion is occurring (good chance supposedly, but nothing is certain until the green light).
That quote was in regards to what $350 million could buy for MK elsewhere, given that we don't yet know where it's going. There was some armchair imagineering done by mahnamahna101 involving refurbishing/plussing/replacing existing attractions. Work that wouldn't involve construction of new scenery (like rockwork) or buildings.
Basically we're dealing with two separate budgets, and we can assume that the $350 million previously discussed (10% of $3.5 billion WDW project specifically allocated to enhancing MK) is going towards other unknown projects. Projects which may not include the construction of new buildings or scenery such as rockwork and other expensive items.
That quote was about a separate subject entirely, regarding the $350 million going towards the REST of Magic Kingdom. The $350 million discussed is NOT related to Frontierland's expansion apparently, both marni1971 and PhotoDave219 have mentioned that there are two separate budgets here with Frontierland not cutting into the $350 million. As I stated, we don't know how much the Frontierland budget is. We don't even know for sure if the expansion is occurring (good chance supposedly, but nothing is certain until the green light).
That quote was in regards to what $350 million could buy for MK elsewhere, given that we don't yet know where it's going. There was some armchair imagineering done by mahnamahna101 involving refurbishing/plussing/replacing existing attractions. Work that wouldn't involve construction of new scenery (like rockwork) or buildings.
Basically we're dealing with two separate budgets, and we can assume that the $350 million previously discussed (10% of $3.5 billion WDW project specifically allocated to enhancing MK) is going towards other unknown projects. Projects which may not include the construction of new buildings or scenery such as rockwork and other expensive items.
docandsix
Active Member
Very astute and quite plausible, except that this scenario would only worsen the bottleneck by Splash Mountain, unless the traffic patterns and walkways in the area were dramatically reworked. At least, so it seems to me. But maybe I'm not visualizing it properly.