Possible Frontierland expansion

[Master Yoda]

I thought there had been a hint they would but that hasn't seemed to happen yet.

For a park that charges for a Christmas party they could afford to do a few overlays, like Small World and Country Bears. They get away with Jingle Cruise ...

While I do not doubt that saving cash is a factor, it is my understanding that guests in WDW actually complain about the overlays. To make matters worse, they don't appear to result in increased turnstyle spins like they do at the other parks.

 

[Kman101]

While I do not doubt that saving cash is a factor, it is my understanding that guests in WDW actually complain about the overlays. To make matters worse, they don't appear to result in increased turnstyle spins like they do at the other parks.

I'm sure guests in other parks complain about the overlays there, too. But they still do them. I totally get why WDW doesn't do them but I think it's a cop out.

 

[Bocabear]

OMG, I was picturing the same scary thought. Lets hope its something better like Tales with Belle. sigh

Better like Tales with Belle? Enchanted Tales with Bell is not better at all... it is a crappy puppet show with carboard cutouts in a Marriott pre-function space. Yeah, the mirror effect is great... taking a magic mirror portal to a hotel ballroom is strange, because the castle interior sets are pretty boring and awful and unimaginative. The Lumiere animatronic is also quite good, but the whole show/Meet & Greet is awful.
What a collosal waste of premium property. The portal should have been the entrance to a real ride like Tokyo willl be getting.

 

[Master Yoda]

I'm sure guests in other parks complain about the overlays there, too. But they still do them. I totally get why WDW doesn't do them but I think it's a cop out.

Not to the same degree...supposedly.

WDW has always had the reputation of having a non-local client base while all the other Disney parks have the opposite. The way you get locals to make more trips is to tweak the attractions with seasonal overlays. The same thing seems to anger non-locals more than enticing them.

When it comes to guests complaining about seasonal overlays at the other parks they seem to have a particular thing in common....they are not locals.

 

[Phineas]

...and bring back the previous show...not the sham that they currently run(from a length of time perspective).

I really miss hearing "Devilish Mary".

 

[Kman101]

Not to the same degree...supposedly.

WDW has always had the reputation of having a non-local client base while all the other Disney parks have the opposite. The way you get locals to make more trips is to tweak the attractions with seasonal overlays. The same thing seems to anger non-locals more than enticing them.

When it comes to guests complaining about seasonal overlays at the other parks they seem to have a particular thing in common....they are not locals.

Gotcha

 

[Goob]

Yeah, Enchanted Tales With Belle is a huge waste of potential on some of the most valuable property on Earth. My 10 and 11 year old daughters don't even want anything to do with it. They could have built a really cool dark ride a la Alice in Wonderland at Disneyland. But that would have required them to spend money.

 

[deWild]

Yeah, Enchanted Tales With Belle is a huge waste of potential on some of the most valuable property on Earth. My 10 and 11 year old daughters don't even want anything to do with it. They could have built a really cool dark ride a la Alice in Wonderland at Disneyland. But that would have required them to spend money.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you that the space could have been used for something different, I think the company has been leaning in the direction of meet 'n greets (interactive or not) for some time now. The lines and wait times for attractions like Belle, Fairytale Hall, and the Frozen photo op are typically atrocious, at least when I look. I might regret saying this, but maybe the company was on to something, because whenever I visit the parks the queues are out the door.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Yeah, Enchanted Tales With Belle is a huge waste of potential on some of the most valuable property on Earth. My 10 and 11 year old daughters don't even want anything to do with it. They could have built a really cool dark ride a la Alice in Wonderland at Disneyland. But that would have required them to spend money.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you that the space could have been used for something different, I think the company has been leaning in the direction of meet 'n greets (interactive or not) for some time now. The lines and wait times for attractions like Belle, Fairytale Hall, and the Frozen photo op are typically atrocious, at least when I look. I might regret saying this, but maybe the company was on to something, because whenever I visit the parks the queues are out the door.

This is Chris Beatty's doing. The initial Fantasyland proposal had three of these similar interactive meet and greets. E-ticket setup for an A-ticket diversion. At least with Mine Train and Mermaid you get the E-ticket setup for C/D-tickets (actual ticket interpretation may vary).

The fact that the Board of Director's reportedly shot down Beatty's proposal for Star Wars tells me that they have learned from these types of mistakes. These meet and greet type things certainly have value, but pick your spots better. Enchanted Tales with Belle and Princess Fairytale Hall are perfectly fine additions, but it's a much tougher sell on the most valuable real estate in Walt Disney World.

This goes to my "it's a small world" should move to Epcot argument as well. Doing so opens up so much space in Fantasyland which should be the lifeblood of Walt Disney World. Add in the possible removal of the Tomorrowland Speedway and you've given Disney a pretty large canvas for something other than meet and greets.

 

[Master Yoda]

While I don't necessarily disagree with you that the space could have been used for something different, I think the company has been leaning in the direction of meet 'n greets (interactive or not) for some time now. The lines and wait times for attractions like Belle, Fairytale Hall, and the Frozen photo op are typically atrocious, at least when I look. I might regret saying this, but maybe the company was on to something, because whenever I visit the parks the queues are out the door.

As it was explained to me, guests love and demand the things, but pretty much everyone from management to park opps hates them.

While they are inexpensive to build even when compared to a dark ride on the caliber of Pooh, they are very expensive from a labor standpoint to run and have horrible guest per hour numbers. Park operations would much rather have an dark ride that eats a couple thousand guests an hour and can be staffed by 3 CMs vs a meet n greet that would be lucky do do half that capacity with three times the staff.

 

[Bocabear]

As it was explained to me, guests love and demand the things, but pretty much everyone from management to park opps hates them.

While they are inexpensive to build even when compared to a dark ride on the caliber of Pooh, they are very expensive from a labor standpoint to run and have horrible guest per hour numbers. Park operations would much rather have an dark ride that eats a couple thousand guests an hour and can be staffed by 3 CMs vs a meet n greet that would be lucky do do half that capacity with three times the staff.

I think the staffing of these meet N Greets has to be much cheaper than an 80 million dollar ride...just pay minimum wage to college kids to dress in costumes... add a lightly themed/no theme room to meet in, and voila! an instant attraction to market with spending the minimum money...and what is worse is people will wait hours for this...which just reinforces management's cost saving measures... If we didn't keep patting them on the back for these crappy cop-outs to building new attractions, they wouldn't do it...but as long as people keep lining up to meet a college kid in a costume, they will do as little as they can get away with... I miss the days when Disney set out to wow you...

 

[Kman101]

I can see how they're more labor intensive.

 

[Master Yoda]

I think the staffing of these meet N Greets has to be much cheaer than an 80 million dollar ride...just pay minimum wage to college kids to dress in costumes... add a lightly themed/no theme room to meet in, and voila! an instant attraction to market with spending the minimum money...and what is worse is people will wait hours for this...which just reinforces management's cost saving measures... If we didn't keep patting them on the back for these crappy cop-outs to building new attractions, they wouldn't do it...but as long as people keep lining up to meet a college kid in a costume, they will do as little as they can get away with... I miss the days when Disney set out to wow you...

Not by a long shot.

Many E-tickets can be staffed by around half a dozen people. Many D-tickets and below take even less.

For meet n greets you often have around 4 CMs per character.

To make matters worse, the guests per hour of nearly every attraction is greater than a meet n greet so when you break down the staffing requirements per guest per hour, meet n greets become much, much more expensive to run from a labor perspective.

 

[Bocabear]

but not from a capital expenditures standpoint... They can probably reduce labor in other areas to make up for this, and in the long run can count it as an "attraction"... With the recent attractions they have put in (120 million for FEA overlay), some increased staffing seems like a bargain...

 

[peter11435]

Not by a long shot.

Many E-tickets can be staffed by around half a dozen people. Many D-tickets and below take even less.

For meet n greets you often have around 4 CMs per character.

To make matters worse, the guests per hour of nearly every attraction is greater than a meet n greet so when you break down the staffing requirements per guest per hour, meet n greets become much, much more expensive to run from a labor perspective.

What e-ticket is staffed by just 6 cast members?

 

[Master Yoda]

but not from a capital expenditures standpoint... They can probably reduce labor in other areas to make up for this, and in the long run can count it as an "attraction"... With the recent attractions they have put in (120 million for FEA overlay), some increased staffing seems like a bargain...

I am not talking from a capex standpoint. I am talking strictly from a labor perspective. Wehn you look at the dollars spent every day on an attraction, the meet ne greets tend to cost more that a mechanical attraction. When you factor in the fewer number of guests served by a meet n greet, the numbers get even worse.

What e-ticket can be staffed by 6 cast members?

Did you notice the phrase "around half a dozen"?

 

[peter11435]

Did you notice the phrase "around half a dozen"?

Which is around 6..

 

[Bocabear]

I am not talking from a capex standpoint. I am talking strictly from a labor perspective. Wehn you look at the dollars spent every day on an attraction, the meet ne greets tend to cost more that a mechanical attraction. When you factor in the fewer number of guests served by a meet n greet, the numbers get even worse.


Did you notice the phrase "around half a dozen"?

but iff you add up the labor cost...and I mean just figure how much labor that is over what would be on an average attraction...then subtract maintenance and mechanical,and compare it to the outlay to build an entirely new attraction, I think you are still WAY below the cost of putting in an actual ride.... I don;'t believe that the Princess Fairytale Hall, if you add up all their cast labor since opening years ago is even close to 120 million dollars... not by a longshot.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yeah, Enchanted Tales With Belle is a huge waste of potential on some of the most valuable property on Earth. My 10 and 11 year old daughters don't even want anything to do with it. They could have built a really cool dark ride a la Alice in Wonderland at Disneyland. But that would have required them to spend money.

Have you ever actually done it? It's fantastic.

 

[uncle jimmy]

Better like Tales with Belle? Enchanted Tales with Bell is not better at all... it is a crappy puppet show with carboard cutouts in a Marriott pre-function space. Yeah, the mirror effect is great... taking a magic mirror portal to a hotel ballroom is strange, because the castle interior sets are pretty boring and awful and unimaginative. The Lumiere animatronic is also quite good, but the whole show/Meet & Greet is awful.
What a collosal waste of premium property. The portal should have been the entrance to a real ride like Tokyo willl be getting.

My comment was actually directed to something better than having Moana jumping out of the middle and just being thrown into the building like a Stitch overlay. Saying something better doesn't mean its what I would hope or think is the best. With the space of Tiki Birds, what options of a ride does it have? Sure take Aladdin away and then you have more room. And yes, Tales with Belle is a great location for a BATB dark ride and personally wouldn't miss it leaving for such a ride.