Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[natatomic]

The article says Dream Tours FLORIDA...not in Florida. Also, look under their VIP Tours...nothing about having a disability but makes promises other tour groups do not make.

My bad. I was going off the Fox News article and it seemed like different companies. Sorry.

 

[Mem11]

It was on the radio this morning, the whole scheme thing. It's disgusting. If this person is caught, they can say bye-bye to Disney for life.

BTW, this is the company that is accused of operating the scam:

http://www.dreamtoursflorida.com/

Interesting Dream Tours Florida has cancelled their VIP program:

VIP TOURS

Due to inaccurate press and slander, Dream Tours is not offering VIP tours at this time. Our focus has primarily always been providing magical vacations for adults with special needs and helping their dreams to come true.

So if this is due to an inaccurate report and slander, why would you cancel the program... Nothing to see here

 

[joanna71985]

So this is pretty lousy...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/disney_world_srich_kid_outrage_zTBA0xrvZRkIVc1zItXGDP

This is really sad

 

[luv]

Interesting Dream Tours Florida has cancelled their VIP program:



So if this is due to an inaccurate report and slander, why would you cancel the program... Nothing to see here

I wondered that myself. I know I wouldn't stop doing something I believed to be right just because someone lied.

OTOH, they may be getting tons of requests to do something they don't want to be a part of, so have cancelled them until it blows over.

Still trying to give that company the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Mem11]

I wondered that myself. I know I wouldn't stop doing something I believed to be right just because someone lied.

OTOH, they may be getting tons of requests to do something they don't want to be a part of, so have cancelled them until it blows over.

Still trying to give that company the benefit of the doubt.

I thought that myself and from a business prospective maybe they thought this was their only viable solution. I would like to think if it where me I would have put up a bit more of a fight, easy for me to say since I have nothing at stake.

I doubt Disney can or will do anything to them, but maybe this will spur them to change the GAC policy to weed out those that are abusing it.

 

[Clever Name]

Oh, am I mixing up these two services? I was thinking of the one in the NY Post.

There are not two different services. We are both talking about the company mentioned in the NYP run by Ryan Clement.

They offer a service for special needs people. However, that does not preclude non-special needs people from also using the service. Anyone who is willing to pay the expense can avail themselves of the provided services.

As we have already discussed in this thread, Disney can not require proof of a disability in order to issue a GAC. The Dream Tours company can't require proof of a disability either in order to provide their service. If they refused a prospective customer because the customer didn't provide proof of their disability, Dream Tours would soon be sued.

If someone claims to be disabled then Disney and Dream Tours must take their word. There is no scam here.

I fear that this company is going to be unfairly smeared. Damn few people are willing to help the developmentally disabled. After this mess is over I think even fewer organizations will be willing to get involved with special needs folks. IMHO it's a shame.

 

[flynnibus]

The article got picked up by Business Insider too...
http://www.businessinsider.com/disney-world-disabled-tour-guides-2013-5

 

[SoupBone]

Interesting Dream Tours Florida has cancelled their VIP program:



So if this is due to an inaccurate report and slander, why would you cancel the program... Nothing to see here

Good thing Google caches pretty much everything. Here's a screen capture of Google's cache of it...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.dreamtoursflorida.com/vip-tours/

 

[Goofyernmost]

There are not two different services. We are both talking about the company mentioned in the NYP run by Ryan Clement.

They offer a service for special needs people. However, that does not preclude non-special needs people from also using the service. Anyone who is willing to pay the expense can avail themselves of the provided services.

As we have already discussed in this thread, Disney can not require proof of a disability in order to issue a GAC. The Dream Tours company can't require proof of a disability either in order to provide their service. If they refused a prospective customer because the customer didn't provide proof of their disability, Dream Tours would soon be sued.

If someone claims to be disabled then Disney and Dream Tours must take their word. There is no scam here.

I fear that this company is going to be unfairly smeared. Damn few people are willing to help the developmentally disabled. After this mess is over I think even fewer organizations will be willing to get involved with special needs folks. IMHO it's a shame.

That's been pretty much what I have been saying since the inception of ADA laws. It is a nice thought but unless you put in some control, it will backfire. It will end up hurting the very people that they tried to help. The biggest mistake is having faith in the human race to do the right thing. There was a time when you could rely on the integrity of people to allow a program like this to operate efficiently. Those days are gone, absorbed by self involved, integrity challenged people. It's a real shame. The program is either going to implode upon itself or someone is going to have to take the reins and rebuild the law to actually protect the disabled, not just allow them access to something. Sadly, I don't see that happening.

 

[Tom]

Good thing Google caches pretty much everything. Here's a screen capture of Google's cache of it...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.dreamtoursflorida.com/vip-tours/

Wow. There are a few juicy sentences in there that undeniably admit that they take advantage of the "special entrance to FastPass lines."

Of course, if this company is on the up-and-up, and sincerely focuses on helping those with special needs, I might give them a little credit. But then again, they're a for-profit company and it can also be interpreted that they're preying on those with special needs. From a business standpoint, it's a "target niche". From a moral standpoint....to each their own opinion.

Since the original article was obviously written with little journalism integrity (what should we expect these days), who's to say that these "rich women" aren't actually disabled and use the service legitimately and with good intentions? Perhaps that part was conveniently left out by the obviously biased author. And on a similar note, perhaps these rich folk are scamming the tour company - telling them that they're disabled and feigning some sort of disability when arriving at the parks.

Definitely not enough information presented in the terribly written article to pass judgement on any group or business. And this is coming from me, of all people

 

[Tom Morrow]

The kicker to that story (which I don't believe) is that you don't need to hire a disabled person to get a GAC. You just go in and ask for it and they give it to you.

Yep. Another reason why the article seems concocted to get people in favor of stricter policies. Then again, of course Disney would never admit that you just have to ask for a card.

 

[flynnibus]

Story is going viral.. seeing more and more hits of others picking up the story.

 

[Tom]

Story is going viral.. seeing more and more hits of others picking up the story.

....since that's how our "news" media works. One entity writes something (fact or fiction) and everyone else copies and pastes it onto their site so that they're among the top hits - even if there's no actual story.

 

[Clever Name]

That's been pretty much what I have been saying since the inception of ADA laws. It is a nice thought but unless you put in some control, it will backfire. It will end up hurting the very people that they tried to help. The biggest mistake is having faith in the human race to do the right thing. There was a time when you could rely on the integrity of people to allow a program like this to operate efficiently. Those days are gone, absorbed by self involved, integrity challenged people. It's a real shame. The program is either going to implode upon itself or someone is going to have to take the reins and rebuild the law to actually protect the disabled, not just allow them access to something. Sadly, I don't see that happening.

The ADA only requires reasonable accommodation. The ADA does not need to be changed to "protect the disabled". That's silly. There are plenty of places where access is unreasonable for certain disabilities. For example, if you can't walk, then you can't get to the crown of the Statue of Liberty.

If you want to get to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, it's unreasonable to expect the National Park Service to provide you any help. For a price, you can get a private contractor to take disabled folks down on a pack mule:

Mules used to Pack Lazy, Sick, Weak, Old, or Handicapped People into and out of the Grand Canyon

These are some of the Mules that are used at the Grand Canyon, in order to Pack Lazy, Sick, Weak, Old, or Handicapped People into and out of the Grand Canyon. They have more than 200 Mules.


What's reasonable is the key. The fact of the matter is disabled people are going to have to spend extra money, get special equipment, hire special helpers and make special plans to do anything and everything in their lives. They don't need the government to do it for them. There is no elevator at the Grand Canyon to take people down to the river.

"Through the years, more than 600,000 have ridden mules in the Grand Canyon, but not all on the trails used today. The first of many entrepreneurs to offer mule rides in the canyon was Captain John Hance, the first white settler at the Grand Canyon, who began his business in 1887. Today, Ron Clayton offers the service to Grand Canyon visitors. Clayton's pioneering efforts in offering mule rides to the disabled -- including quadriplegics, blind people, and double amputees -- has earned him the 1998 "Horseman of Distinction" award from the North American Horsemen's Association."

Please notice that in the example that I gave concerning the Grand Canyon that lazy people are included. Even perfectly healthy people can use the service. It's a reasonable accommodation that is available to all, for a price.

 

[flynnibus]

....since that's how our "news" media works. One entity writes something (fact or fiction) and everyone else copies and pastes it onto their site so that they're among the top hits - even if there's no actual story.

It's been that way for decades.. its just a heck of a lot easier and there are far more 'publishers' these days But the reason I mention it here is in the context of exposure for Disney and if it's something they will have to face. A story running on TV news channels around the country and news sites everywhere will force Disney to acknowledge it.. and hopefully will give more pressure to help close the loopholes.

 

[Violet]

There are not two different services. We are both talking about the company mentioned in the NYP run by Ryan Clement.

They offer a service for special needs people. However, that does not preclude non-special needs people from also using the service. Anyone who is willing to pay the expense can avail themselves of the provided services.

As we have already discussed in this thread, Disney can not require proof of a disability in order to issue a GAC. The Dream Tours company can't require proof of a disability either in order to provide their service. If they refused a prospective customer because the customer didn't provide proof of their disability, Dream Tours would soon be sued.

Oh ok. It still seems like lying and cheating to me when working with people without special needs.

Sure, helping people with special needs around the park...sounds great. Have THEM go get their wheelchair or GAC or whatever they need and help away.

So then what about the non-special-needs folks, if this article is to be believed.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The ADA only requires reasonable accommodation. The ADA does not need to be changed to "protect the disabled". That's silly. There are plenty of places where access is unreasonable for certain disabilities. For example, if you can't walk, then you can't get to the crown of the Statue of Liberty.

If you want to get to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, it's unreasonable to expect the National Park Service to provide you any help. For a price, you can get a private contractor to take disabled folks down on a pack mule:

Mules used to Pack Lazy, Sick, Weak, Old, or Handicapped People into and out of the Grand Canyon

These are some of the Mules that are used at the Grand Canyon, in order to Pack Lazy, Sick, Weak, Old, or Handicapped People into and out of the Grand Canyon. They have more than 200 Mules.


What's reasonable is the key. The fact of the matter is disabled people are going to have to spend extra money, get special equipment, hire special helpers and make special plans to do anything and everything in their lives. They don't need the government to do it for them. There is no elevator at the Grand Canyon to take people down to the river.

"Through the years, more than 600,000 have ridden mules in the Grand Canyon, but not all on the trails used today. The first of many entrepreneurs to offer mule rides in the canyon was Captain John Hance, the first white settler at the Grand Canyon, who began his business in 1887. Today, Ron Clayton offers the service to Grand Canyon visitors. Clayton's pioneering efforts in offering mule rides to the disabled -- including quadriplegics, blind people, and double amputees -- has earned him the 1998 "Horseman of Distinction" award from the North American Horsemen's Association."

Please notice that in the example that I gave concerning the Grand Canyon that lazy people are included. Even perfectly healthy people can use the service. It's a reasonable accommodation that is available to all, for a price.

Did you read something different that what I wrote? I don't want to see reasonable accommodation lessened, and I also feel that there are many areas where it cannot be done. If a person could do everything they would no longer be disabled would they? What I want to see changed is the stupid, bigoted idea that having a disability is some sort of shame not to be discussed. It's like having a disability is an evil thing brought on by satan and is not to be discussed because we are assuming that for a brief period of time they forgot they had a disability and now we have reopened a wound. It is foolish to think that a person with a handicap, of any sort, would be embarrassed to show evidence of a problem in order to gain access to something that otherwise would be impossible.

Because we obviously have this stigma remaining in our collective minds, we don't want to embarrass anyone by asking for evidence where it is needed. People with obvious problems are not in question here, by anyone. It's those that can't be seen that incite the judgment given by unqualified, paranoid and, I'll say it again, stupid people. A one time verification, in private, does not mean that you hang a sign off a person saying, "look at me, I'm getting an advantage that you aren't and you don't even know whether I need it or not". It would silently say...I have given the information I needed to be allowed this benefit so...have a magical day...nothing to see here. I would think that in the range of human dignity that would go a long way to stop all the unnecessary judgment of others and allow them to be and blend with the rest of humanity without them having to feel that others are watching them, looking for that disability.

 

[pixargal]

They were discussing this abuse and the company on a radio station here in Charlotte, NC this morning. I was shocked to hear that such a company existed and saddened that people would really take advantage of this.

 

[Violet]

The biggest mistake is having faith in the human race to do the right thing. There was a time when you could rely on the integrity of people to allow a program like this to operate efficiently. Those days are gone, absorbed by self involved, integrity challenged people. It's a real shame. The program is either going to implode upon itself or someone is going to have to take the reins and rebuild the law to actually protect the disabled, not just allow them access to something. Sadly, I don't see that happening.

I agree, I wonder how this will all end. But it's Disney's fault ultimately though IMO. Yes, people are people, and people will always try to gain an advantage. But even within the current laws, there are ways that Disney can keep accommodating guests with special needs, while decreasing the appeal for cheaters. But all of that would cost WDW money, that's why they don't do it.

As I always say, Disney doesn't leave a box outside the front gate, saying "Throw your admission fee in folks! Honor system!" Because that would be their money that would get stolen. But they don't care when their guests are getting their time and money stolen.

 

[captainkidd]

This sucks for a lot of people, myself included. I don't have an "obvious" need for the GAC. However, I have 2 disc protrusions in my back that prevent me from standing in the same place for more than a few minutes. I've tried going without it a couple of times, and lasted maybe 2 hours in the park before having to go back to the resort. Disney is eventually going to get rid of the pass because of scenarios like the ones mentioned in the article.

I understand it's against the law, but I sure wish Disney could only hand out GAC's with a note from a doctor. Of course, then there are some scumbags who would just forge such a note.