Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[luv]

Did you read something different that what I wrote? I don't want to see reasonable accommodation lessened, and I also feel that there are many areas where it cannot be done. If a person could do everything they would no longer be disabled would they? What I want to see changed is the stupid, bigoted idea that having a disability is some sort of shame not to be discussed. It's like having a disability is an evil thing brought on by satan and is not to be discussed because we are assuming that for a brief period of time they forgot they had a disability and now we have reopened a wound. It is foolish to think that a person with a handicap, of any sort, would be embarrassed to show evidence of a problem in order to gain access to something that otherwise would be impossible.

Because we obviously have this stigma remaining in our collective minds, we don't want to embarrass anyone by asking for evidence where it is needed. People with obvious problems are not in question here, by anyone. It's those that can't be seen that incite the judgment given by unqualified, paranoid and, I'll say it again, stupid people. A one time verification, in private, does not mean that you hang a sign off a person saying, "look at me, I'm getting an advantage that you aren't and you don't even know whether I need it or not". It would silently say...I have given the information I needed to be allowed this benefit so...have a magical day...nothing to see here. I would think that in the range of human dignity that would go a long way to stop all the unnecessary judgment of others and allow them to be and blend with the rest of humanity without them having to feel that others are watching them, looking for that disability.

Again, it isn't about what you think or how you feel. It's about those people. There are many good reasons they might not want to go through it all.

Plus, the Disney staff won't be able to understand it all and would have to take them at their word, anyway...so there is no real point to it, anyway.

If you start your paragraph with, "It will hurt people, but they should have to do it anyway, because..." and leave out all the stuff about what you think and what you feel, that might help.

End it with, "and that is why it is a good idea to cause people who have a ton of problems even more grief."

 

[Goofyernmost]

Again, it isn't about what you think or how you feel. It's about those people. There are many good reasons they might not want to go through it all.

Plus, the Disney staff won't be able to understand it all and would have to take them at their word, anyway...so there is no real point to it, anyway.

If you start your paragraph with, "It will hurt people, but they should have to do it anyway, because..." and leave out all the stuff about what you think and what you feel, that might help.

End it with, "and that is why it is a good idea to cause people who have a ton of problems even more grief."

I guess, in spite of using way to many words, I am not communicating my thoughts properly. The one thing that ADA did not anticipate is that by having rules that loose, they are inadvertently causing emotional harm to the disabled. Not because of the law or the disabled, but, because of the way people have of always assuming that if one person is abusing the system, then maybe all of them are. Then they look at people with real disabilities and decide that they are faking or abusing the system. Why? 1. Because people are shallow and opinionated. 2. Because those same people cannot go about living there own life and not feel that what others do is cause for their concern. 3. Because there is no system in place that would assure those same people that steps were taken to not have abuse of the system. This is the key! Would you rather tell one person what the problem is and then go about your business knowing that you are just fitting in or would you rather always feel that everyone is looking at you like you are "cheating", when your not? That is the side effect that no one anticipated, because they thought that society was above that kind of foolishness and that all people are honest and have integrity. Problem is...they are/do not.

 

[luv]

I guess, in spite of using way to many words, I am not communicating my thoughts properly. The one thing that ADA did not anticipate is that by having rules that loose, they are inadvertently causing emotional harm to the disabled. Not because of the law or the disabled, but, because of the way people have of always assuming that if one person is abusing the system, then maybe all of them are. Then they look at people with real disabilities and decide that they are faking or abusing the system. Why? 1. Because people are shallow and opinionated. 2. Because those same people cannot go about living there own life and not feel that what others do is cause for their concern. 3. Because there is no system in place that would assure those same people that steps were taken to not have abuse of the system. This is the key! Would you rather tell one person what the problem is and then go about your business knowing that you are just fitting in or would you rather always feel that everyone is looking at you like you are "cheating", when your not? That is the side effect that no one anticipated, because they thought that society was above that kind of foolishness and that all people are honest and have integrity. Problem is...they are/do not.

What I want isn't at issue, just like what you want doesn't matter.

And since there is NO POINT to forcing sick people into upsetting circumstances, I can't condone it.

If you stop thinking about society and yourself and start thinking about these people you claim you want to help, you will have a better understanding. You seriously need to begin and end your paragraphs with those sentences.

Remember, too, that helping begins with Not Hurting.

 

[Ava83]

Heeeyyyy.....

you might be on to something.

edit: the tone of the article, and how it specifically singles out the "despicable rich 1%" doing it, makes me picture that it was written specifically to get the general public onboard with rallying against abuse of the policies.

2nd edit" 2.5 hours for "its a small world" ? When is it's line ever more than 20 minutes?

Look at the latest story...I really do think Disney leaked it.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/disney_probes_sleazy_riders_BsFgeKjl2ugf7PvqQAAiaO

 

[Violet]

And since there is NO POINT to forcing sick people into upsetting circumstances, I can't condone it.

I agree with you in theory...But you know, in all of the posts I've seen on this issue here and elsewhere, I've never seen a person who truly did have special needs not want to show paperwork of some sort. Most posts by people on this topic indicate that they want to be able to show documentation. That they hate all of this fraud just as much, if not more, than the guest without special needs.

I know just anecdotal, and the law is the law anyway, so kind of moot.

 

[Violet]

Look at the latest story...I really do think Disney leaked it.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/disney_probes_sleazy_riders_BsFgeKjl2ugf7PvqQAAiaO

Totally possible IMO. Makes sense really. They hate this fraud as much as anyone. And they are also trying to sell their fancy VIP Tours, so GAC fraud cuts into that business.

 

[luv]

I agree with you in theory...But you know, in all of the posts I've seen on this issue here and elsewhere, I've never seen a person who truly did have special needs not want to show paperwork of some sort. Most posts by people on this topic indicate that they want to be able to show documentation. That they hate all of this fraud just as much, if not more, than the guest without special needs.

I know just anecdotal, and the law is the law anyway, so kind of moot.

Many people who are sick don't want to get into the details. Maybe people here may wish to, but most people don't like to get too into their lengthy medical crap, for many reasons.

Plus, again, there is NO POINT to it. The Disney staff cannot understand it all (much less verify it) and has to take people's word for it when the people say they need X or Y.

I seriously cannot even understand why people say, "No, there is no point to causing sick people more grief...but let's do it, anyway! It makes me happy!"

I have tried, but I just cannot see how that comes from anything but selfishness and/or a little bit of cruelty.

 

[Goofyernmost]

What I want isn't at issue, just like what you want doesn't matter.

And since there is NO POINT to forcing sick people into upsetting circumstances, I can't condone it.

If you stop thinking about society and yourself and start thinking about these people you claim you want to help, you will have a better understanding. You seriously need to begin and end your paragraphs with those sentences.

Remember, too, that helping begins with Not Hurting.

Why isn't scrutinizing individuals that are being unfairly judged by society hurtful? Why isn't that a consideration?

I have both owned a residence for disabled people and have even escorted many of them to WDW, I do have a close personal connection with how they feel about being watched and doubted. I, also have personally had a time (albeit short) when I was disabled to the point of not being able to walk/get around a place like WDW without a scooter or a wheelchair and opted not to go because I was painfully aware of how others would have looked at me when I got out of the scooter and walked to something. Isn't that a barricade to equal access that I was supposed to be protected from? At that time, I would have been more then happy to show the reason for my need to one person to conclusively verify my need then to have hundreds of people I didn't even know find the need to evaluate my needs on their own.

I would love to start my paragraph with...It will hurt people to a lesser degree if we...., but as you said, it doesn't really matter. No one is going to change anything.

Frankly, I am also wondering why you seem to think that we are thinking two different things. I went on record earlier saying that ADA laws were what enabled the disabled and that I thought it was terrific that they were in place. However, I don't want it to stop there when there is room for improvement. Official verification will, I feel, help make it a more even playing field as far as acceptance by the "other" people that occupy society. As much as we might like to think that society has no baring on this situation, I beg to differ. They have a tremendous amount of influence on how a disabled person is able to feel accepted and honestly in need of assistance.

 

[luv]

Why isn't scrutinizing individuals that are being unfairly judged by society hurtful? Why isn't that a consideration?

I have both owned a residence for disabled people and have even escorted many of them to WDW, I do have a close personal connection with how they feel about being watched and doubted. I, also have personally had a time (albeit short) when I was disabled to the point of not being able to walk/get around a place like WDW without a scooter or a wheelchair and opted not to go because I was painfully aware of how others would have looked at me when I got out of the scooter and walked to something. Isn't that a barricade to equal access that I was supposed to be protected from? At that time, I would have been more then happy to show the reason for my need to one person to conclusively verify my need then to have hundreds of people I didn't even know find the need to evaluate my needs on their own.

I would love to start my paragraph with...It will hurt people to a lesser degree if we...., but as you said, it doesn't really matter. No one is going to change anything.

Frankly, I am also wondering why you seem to think that we are thinking two different things. I went on record earlier saying that ADA laws were what enabled the disabled and that I thought it was terrific that they were in place. However, I don't want it to stop there when there is room for improvement. Official verification will, I feel, help make it a more even playing field as far as acceptance by the "other" people that occupy society. As much as we might like to think that society has no baring on this situation, I beg to differ. They have a tremendous amount of influence on how a disabled person is able to feel accepted and honestly in need of assistance.

There are 20 uses of "I", "me" and "my" In addition to several references to society at large. But none of this has anything to do with you, your feelings, emotions, desires or experiences.

It is about other people.

Please try to think about the sick people and how YOU don't want to make their lives even a little bit worse, if it must be about you...and stop with the rest of the stuff about you. It is not about you!

I realize I'm getting bitchy again, which is why I bailed on this thread before.

It is obviously something I'm passionate about...and kind of bitchy about...so I think I'll bail again.

 

[MysticOrient]

Sorry, I didn't read through this whole thread, so if someone already had this idea, I apologize.

What about if the GAC is something like a 1-day, 1-park, 1-ride "Fastpass" type of thing? In other words, it's a card with each ride listed (and clearly dated for that day's use only). As each family goes to a ride, the CM punches a hole. The GAC user gets to "bypass" each attraction's line only once - if they want to ride that attraction again, they get in line (or get a "regular" Fastpass).

To me that would solve the need for any CMs having to require "proof" of disability or need. It would allow the guest to visit each attraction using their GAC card, and then if they wanted more rides, then they would have to plan it.

Thoughts?

 

[Lord_Vader]

Sorry, I didn't read through this whole thread, so if someone already had this idea, I apologize.

What about if the GAC is something like a 1-day, 1-park, 1-ride "Fastpass" type of thing? In other words, it's a card with each ride listed (and clearly dated for that day's use only). As each family goes to a ride, the CM punches a hole. The GAC user gets to "bypass" each attraction's line only once - if they want to ride that attraction again, they get in line (or get a "regular" Fastpass).

To me that would solve the need for any CMs having to require "proof" of disability or need. It would allow the guest to visit each attraction using their GAC card, and then if they wanted more rides, then they would have to plan it.

Thoughts?

IMO... The guests that abuse would get a card for each member of their party providing as many rides as they have members. I truely wish Disney would simply enforce the return time cards they used to on some rides. The GAC is presented, the cast member looks at the expected wait time and writes an appropriate return time (current time plus the wait time) for the GAC party to return.

The above solution could be abused though with the GAC group could go from attraction to attraction getting return times much like an unlimited fast pass generator giving everyone something else to worry about. Maybe if something like this is tied to your MM+/KTTW card the potential for abuse would be limited.

 

[Violet]

Sorry, I didn't read through this whole thread, so if someone already had this idea, I apologize.

What about if the GAC is something like a 1-day, 1-park, 1-ride "Fastpass" type of thing? In other words, it's a card with each ride listed (and clearly dated for that day's use only). As each family goes to a ride, the CM punches a hole. The GAC user gets to "bypass" each attraction's line only once - if they want to ride that attraction again, they get in line (or get a "regular" Fastpass).

To me that would solve the need for any CMs having to require "proof" of disability or need. It would allow the guest to visit each attraction using their GAC card, and then if they wanted more rides, then they would have to plan it.

Thoughts?

Sounds like an improvement to me. Anything would be an improvement at this point.

 

[flynnibus]

Sorry, I didn't read through this whole thread, so if someone already had this idea, I apologize.

What about if the GAC is something like a 1-day, 1-park, 1-ride "Fastpass" type of thing? In other words, it's a card with each ride listed (and clearly dated for that day's use only). As each family goes to a ride, the CM punches a hole. The GAC user gets to "bypass" each attraction's line only once - if they want to ride that attraction again, they get in line (or get a "regular" Fastpass).

The problem is.. simply giving them a FP may not address their disability. You're looking at it from the perspective of 'our alternative is to give you unlimited FP.. ' so you think the fix is just to make not 'unlimited'.

The root problem is deeper than that.. the root issue is Disney giving out a universal solution to what is supposed to be a per-person response.

Your model would discourage some use.. but would still mean a FP card I can use even when FPs are out, etc. The problem is Disney needs to stop giving alternative entrance access out like it's penny candy and instead provide accommodations that fit individual needs.

 

[captainkidd]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but my wife and I are going to decide tonight whether or not to cancel our trip. It would suck for the kids (as well as us), but this story just makes an already awkward situation even worse. There is no way possible I could go to Disney World (unless we did no rides) and stand in line. I tried it out of guilt, and didn't last the morning. I feel so embarrassed not just obtaining the GAC but using it. And because of stories like this, I'm starting to think of myself as one of the guilty ones. I have options. I could not go. I could go and we could just walk around. I don't want my desire to be able to enjoy WDW to hurt kids that are in need of the pass, and that's how I', starting to feel. My wife thinks I'm crazy, as she's well aware of the pain I'd be in. I'm just too uncomfortable with the entire situation to even do it anymore.

 

[YankeeMouse]

People who have disability issues should not have to endure questioning by the likes of people who can walk or tolerate standing in long lines. That's it. There is always going to be a cheater in any system. Concern yourself with the 1 yard space around yourself and it'll make your life easier. Is it fair that some people are abusing the system? No. But is it fair that others have genuine disabilities to deal with in their lives? No. You're in Disney World. Consider yourselves fortunate and stop whining. There. I feel better now.

 

[YankeeMouse]

And Captain Kidd, if you cannot go because you cannot tolerate the lines, that's one thing. But don't let others prevent you from going and enjoying yourself with your family. If anyone says anything to you directly, simply smile and ignore them.

 

[Violet]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but my wife and I are going to decide tonight whether or not to cancel our trip. It would suck for the kids (as well as us), but this story just makes an already awkward situation even worse. There is no way possible I could go to Disney World (unless we did no rides) and stand in line. I tried it out of guilt, and didn't last the morning. I feel so embarrassed not just obtaining the GAC but using it. And because of stories like this, I'm starting to think of myself as one of the guilty ones. I have options. I could not go. I could go and we could just walk around. I don't want my desire to be able to enjoy WDW to hurt kids that are in need of the pass, and that's how I', starting to feel. My wife thinks I'm crazy, as she's well aware of the pain I'd be in. I'm just too uncomfortable with the entire situation to even do it anymore.

Not that a random person on the internet matters, but I agree with your wife. You know you have a good reason to use one. Chronic pain is exactly a type of "invisible disability" that the GAC is intended to help.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but my wife and I are going to decide tonight whether or not to cancel our trip. It would suck for the kids (as well as us), but this story just makes an already awkward situation even worse. There is no way possible I could go to Disney World (unless we did no rides) and stand in line. I tried it out of guilt, and didn't last the morning. I feel so embarrassed not just obtaining the GAC but using it. And because of stories like this, I'm starting to think of myself as one of the guilty ones. I have options. I could not go. I could go and we could just walk around. I don't want my desire to be able to enjoy WDW to hurt kids that are in need of the pass, and that's how I', starting to feel. My wife thinks I'm crazy, as she's well aware of the pain I'd be in. I'm just too uncomfortable with the entire situation to even do it anymore.

And there lies the invisible barricade I was talking about earlier. I made a promise to myself after I cancelled my trip to WDW because of the same feelings when I needed the assistance, that I would never do that again. I would never again allow myself to not enjoy something because of the narrow minded idiots of the world.

If and when people with disabilities stop going to places like WDW because of the prejudice and judgmental tendencies of people that have no knowledge of what a disability is, then it will be a lot easier to spot a fraud. They all will be, because they aren't bothered by the judges.

 

[Lord_Vader]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but my wife and I are going to decide tonight whether or not to cancel our trip. It would suck for the kids (as well as us), but this story just makes an already awkward situation even worse. There is no way possible I could go to Disney World (unless we did no rides) and stand in line. I tried it out of guilt, and didn't last the morning. I feel so embarrassed not just obtaining the GAC but using it. And because of stories like this, I'm starting to think of myself as one of the guilty ones. I have options. I could not go. I could go and we could just walk around. I don't want my desire to be able to enjoy WDW to hurt kids that are in need of the pass, and that's how I', starting to feel. My wife thinks I'm crazy, as she's well aware of the pain I'd be in. I'm just too uncomfortable with the entire situation to even do it anymore.

My wife and I felt the same at first but after sitting in lines many times that were in fact longer than the standby lines and dealing with the hassles from transportation to and from the parks, sort of learned to completely ignore it. The system is there to be used by guests that need it, very few people feel otherwise and they are no better than those that abuse the system IMHO. We end up staying in the resort for fourteen days and up to do the same things we used to do in five to seven days even with the GAC.

 

[Tom Morrow]

People who have disability issues should not have to endure questioning by the likes of people who can walk or tolerate standing in long lines. That's it. There is always going to be a cheater in any system. Concern yourself with the 1 yard space around yourself and it'll make your life easier. Is it fair that some people are abusing the system? No. But is it fair that others have genuine disabilities to deal with in their lives? No. You're in Disney World. Consider yourselves fortunate and stop whining. There. I feel better now.

Oh, yay. Another person that glanced through the thread, read everything out of context, and feels the need to chime in.

Some bullet points for you:

- Disney already accommodates for disabilities without the cards ever being needed. The cards are nothing more than a customer service perk, one that used to be reserved only for those that truly need it, unfortunately the door has been blown wide open on this one and a staggering number of people know about the cards and how to obtain them.
- The GAC card abuse is so abundant that is, absolutely, 100%, without question, impacting everyone else in the parks, how much they can ride, their wait times, etc.
- Disney is handing out what acts as an "unlimited Fastpass" to anyone without shame that asks for one. (hint: a lot of people don't have any shame)
- There are no regulations on these cards and very little enforcement, see examples of groups 16 completely healthy college students whipping out multiple cards like they're prizes.

You are paying for the exact same ticket as these scammers, yet you are able to do less, BECAUSE they are able to do more. Sorry, but if its affecting how much value you get out of your expensive park tickets, then I think it is something you should be concerned about.