Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

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Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
A few pages ago it was mentioned that the "average" is 175 GAC people per hour. I'd just like to add that makes the issue seem not so wide-spread, as that is in fact an average and is including hours with little or no demand, such as at the end of the night. Some attractions, not naming names, often see hours of 300+ GAC people, sometimes approaching 400. During a peak demand hour on a busy day, this is staggering and the attractions can not handle it without making the standby line come to a grinding halt.
 

luv

Well-Known Member
I think what so many people do not understand is how widespread the abuse really is. It is rampant.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just curious, what is your opinion of the new Fastpass? I think it's going to be very helpful to those with legitimate medical needs, like myself. In fact, it should eliminate the need for FOTL access for everyone, IMHO.
My opinion on what is known about Fastpass+ has been largely negative: http://micechat.com/24073-disney-fastpass-plus/
The fact your father takes pepper does not make the problem widespread abuse. You need to separate the idea that 'someone will still do it' and 'abuse' where 'abuse' means it becomes a problem for Disney or other guests.

and it's not penalizing legit GAC users when you simply give them what they need.

The issue is the gain is too high, and the barrier too low. Combine those things and the horrible society that we are will abuse it. The barrier being low is FIXED and Disney can't change it. So the only thing they can change is the gain.

Oh you can't take the heat? Ok, you can wait over there on those benches we set aside...
Oh you can't stand? There are some chairs over there.. or we'll offer you a wheelchair
Oh you can't climb steps? That's fine, most of our attractions don't have them, and those that do, you can get a return pass to enter the handicap'd entrance
Oh you can't walk? That's fine, we offer wheelchair and ecv rentals right over there...
Oh you can't take crowds? We'll you can get this return pass to come back later.. and no you can't have more than one at a time (an area the new RFID system COULD help with)

When the GAC user 'advantage' is low.. the majority will stop abusing it because there is so little gain (the salt analogy). Sure you can still abuse it.. but that means waiting in line at GR... and you only get benefits that really don't interest you (being stuck in the waiting pen.. or being stuck holding onto a single pass that doesn't allow getting more).

Limiting people to have to wait the same amount of time as others is not penalizing GAC users - it's equalizing them. The problem is Disney is too risk adverse and too CHEAP to do any of the above. They'd rather turn a blind eye to the problem under the guise of customer service rather than actually have to provide legitimate accommodations for so many of these disabilities.

You make some good points here, specifically what I bolded. Having said that, I still maintain that the general concept of allowing certain GAC users alternative entrance (using the Fastpass queue) is a reasonable accommodation and not something that falls under abuse. Where it becomes a problem is when those guests are utilizing the GAC for multiple rides on an attraction, especially the higher demand attractions.

With Fastpass+, this can be tracked much easier. They can curb multiple rides, and potentially give return times like what is done for Radiator Springs Racers. All of these things are reasonable, but the greater issue is and always will be the distribution. If guests see acquiring a GAC as a means of a better day in the parks, they will still seek it out, even if that advantage isn't as good. By removing any "advantage" you eliminate this demand, but you also alienate those people that have a legitimate need for the advantages that the GAC provides.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
^ A problem is that almost every single GAC issued out is stamped with the "alternate entrance" stamp. Because that is what people want. Because that is the "golden ticket." The "stroller=wheelchair" stamp is abused too by people who don't want to park their strollers, but that isn't that big of a deal because they aren't reaping the benefit of being able to experience more than others who paid the same as they did, and consequently causing longer wait times for those who don't know/follow the rules/don't scam.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Perhaps we should just swap the fastpass and the standby lines since this problem is so prevalent. More people are using the GAC cards than those in standby...so it just makes sense.


;)
 

Lord_Vader

Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
Just curious, what is your opinion of the new Fastpass? I think it's going to be very helpful to those with legitimate medical needs, like myself. In fact, it should eliminate the need for FOTL access for everyone, IMHO.

The article below sums up my expectation of GAC in the future, a future where most rides have a check in station and you are notified when it is your turn to join the line. If all guests, including GAC guests, are/were required to use the check-in system there is no longer the immediate access that is perceived by many. From my families experience a minority of GAC guests are demanding of immediate access, most are grateful for any accomodation and those that don't really need them scream the loudest.

http://disneyatwork.com/2013/03/no-waiting-at-disney-with-iwatch/
 

Violet

Well-Known Member
The article below sums up my expectation of GAC in the future, a future where most rides have a check in station and you are notified when it is your turn to join the line. If all guests, including GAC guests, are/were required to use the check-in system there is no longer the immediate access that is perceived by many. From my families experience a minority of GAC guests are demanding of immediate access, most are grateful for any accomodation and those that don't really need them scream the loudest.

http://disneyatwork.com/2013/03/no-waiting-at-disney-with-iwatch/

Interesting article, thanks for the link. I think this is where this is all headed. (I don't think those Apple watches are going to catch on though lol)

I think with the new system, the use of the GAC will be tightened...If you can make reservations for rides, then it eliminates the "I can't stand in line" condition.
 

Violet

Well-Known Member
Random thought...If GACs are so easy to get, then really everyone should go and get themselves one. (Besides the moral part, but let's leave that aside for a moment).

If so many people are abusing them, then it's not rational not to get one for your family too. I'm not condoning this, but I think the only reason this hasn't happened yet is because most people don't know about them.

Is it getting to a point that by trying to be a good and honest person, you will be punished at WDW?
 

jrogue

Well-Known Member
How is it fair for a GAC to ride something 5 times on a busy day when a family without one rides once? You sound as if you are more entitled then everyone else and you are not.

I've actually never used a GAC card and I hope I never need one. However, my family and I manage to go on rides multiple times a day by utilizing the Fastpass system and also just by knowing when some rides have shorter queues -- ie in the mornings and at night. We visited the parks last week -- Easter vacation week -- and managed to ride many/most of of the WDW attractions more than once. The new Little Mermaid ride was a "walk-on" wait at around 11pm for more than one night and we rode three times each time.

Like I said, I'm just happy that some people who really need the GACs get to use them as often as they want. Of course there are awful people who abuse those cards -- but how are we to know who they are? As long as the ones who really need them can use them then that's fine with me. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this matter of course, but all of this might change with the new FP+ system anyway.
 

Ava83

New Member
I've actually never used a GAC card and I hope I never need one. However, my family and I manage to go on rides multiple times a day by utilizing the Fastpass system and also just by knowing when some rides have shorter queues -- ie in the mornings and at night. We visited the parks last week -- Easter vacation week -- and managed to ride many/most of of the WDW attractions more than once. The new Little Mermaid ride was a "walk-on" wait at around 11pm for more than one night and we rode three times each time.

Like I said, I'm just happy that some people who really need the GACs get to use them as often as they want. Of course there are awful people who abuse those cards -- but how are we to know who they are? As long as the ones who really need them can use them then that's fine with me. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this matter of course, but all of this might change with the new FP+ system anyway.

So do we, but that does not translate to unlimited.

I understand people who need GAC need them, am not disputing that. I just don't agree using of the term "unlimited".
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Is it getting to a point that by trying to be a good and honest person, you will be punished at WDW?
Yes, and Disney coasts on the masses not knowing about the abundance of people that get away with scamming, whether it be GACs, Fastpasses, child swaps, or attempts to get free merchandise/meals/hotel nights/tickets. I'm guessing the logic is "we want everyone to return here and spend more money", but you can only shove these problems under the rug for so long before the problem gets so out of hand that honest people have a significantly more negative experience and stop coming.
Like I said, I'm just happy that some people who really need the GACs get to use them as often as they want. Of course there are awful people who abuse those cards -- but how are we to know who they are? As long as the ones who really need them can use them then that's fine with me. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this matter of course, but all of this might change with the new FP+ system anyway.
Two things -
1. The ADA fights or equal treatment, so why is it fair that a person with a disability, who paid the same amount as you to enter the park, can ride an attraction 5 times on a busy day with no effort, simply whipping out their GAC, while you are able to ride twice, if you're lucky? And think of how many people are unfamiliar with the parks and aren't as savvy, they most likely get to ride once or not at all... yet they paid the same price.

2. Again, this is something that if you don't see the abuse firsthand, it won't seem like a big deal to you. And Disney is riding on that - the people who don't know.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Yes, and Disney coasts on the masses not knowing about the abundance of people that get away with scamming, whether it be GACs, Fastpasses, child swaps, or attempts to get free merchandise/meals/hotel nights/tickets. I'm guessing the logic is "we want everyone to return here and spend more money", but you can only shove these problems under the rug for so long before the problem gets so out of hand that honest people have a significantly more negative experience and stop coming.
Ah, the good old days when there was one line and an alternative line. Three times I escorted a wonderful man that was afflicted with CP. He could walk short distances with a helping hand, but had to be brought around the park via wheelchair. You would be amazed at the degree of the grades in WDW when pushing a chair up them. :) We would go to regular lines when we could, and they would direct us to alternative entrances when we couldn't get in the regular line. We sometimes had to wait, in fact most of the time, in that place until an appropriate ride vehicle arrived. We would go to shows like The Lion King and the wheelchair position was in front near the stage. You could get neck cramps looking up at the stage and miss some of the action just because you couldn't see it from there. But, we saw everything, and rode everything that he was physically able to do. He didn't speak well because of his illness but he had a way of expressing his joy over being able to just go. Until I took him, he had never even been out of the state of Vermont.

It was a lot of work but something that I am proud to have been able to do for him. He helped me too, because he insisted on paying my way as well as his own. He knew that I didn't have to do it and he wanted to thank me. When I hear of people that purposely misrepresent themselves as having handicaps to rake in whatever benefits that they perceive to be there it does two things. First, it makes me angry and surprised that people so readily defy karma and Second that people now, thanks to the originally good intent of the ADA laws, have made people with disabilities feel self conscience about people thinking that they are cheating a system. The way it was, was never a deterrent to people with disabilities, now there is a mental deterrent that shouldn't be there.

People with problems and disability need to know that these are there own problems and not societies. Some things are just not attainable by people with disability. If a person is unable to move his/her legs then they cannot expect to be able to climb Mt. Everest. If there wasn't a natural limitation then there wouldn't be a disability would there? Society should do whatever they can to help people overcome as many road blocks as they possibly can, but they should not be expected to solve all of them. For example, a person with anxiety problems that causes them to panic in a large crowd, couldn't possibly pick a worse place to be then a theme park. I know, I wouldn't even want to be in one under those conditions. Not everything is doable for everyone.

If ADA would lighten up just a little and realize the not requiring any proof of disability (some are obvious, some are not), then they could once again take advantage of the extras that are put in place to help them without having to feel like everyone is looking at them with a judgmental eye. It is a simple requirement, doesn't cause any embarrassment and would eliminate the evil eyes of people making judgements. People with disabilities know they have them and the very idea that this should somehow be kept as a secret, is an insult to those with the disability. It's like saying, we don't want you to be looked down on because you are disabled as if there is some shame associated with it. Instead if verification is available people will understand that you have a disability and who cares. Enjoy your life.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
It appears to me that people are getting confused about the difference between legitimate use of GAC cards and unnecessary use of GAC cards.

What is being argued here is not the use of GAC cards it's the unnecessary use of GAC cards. If provisions were to be made that would enable a place like Disney to discriminate based on need and not have to take everyone's word for it, then all the problem would go away. As I said in the previous post. Many disabilities are obvious and require no proof other than visual. The abuse comes from the areas that aren't obvious. Those require something, anything official to verify the problem and that alone would end most of the abuse and stop making those with real problems from being judged by people with absolutely no credentials to make a judgement.

As I have said ADA was put out there with the best of intentions. They just weren't all thought through and now they stubbornly refuse to admit that there were some mistakes and correct them. They have gone further than anyone else in making a person with a disability uncomfortable with their disabilities. ADA needs to fix their mistakes and soon.
 

startraveler

Active Member
Yes, and Disney coasts on the masses not knowing about the abundance of people that get away with scamming, whether it be GACs, Fastpasses, child swaps, or attempts to get free merchandise/meals/hotel nights/tickets. I'm guessing the logic is "we want everyone to return here and spend more money", but you can only shove these problems under the rug for so long before the problem gets so out of hand that honest people have a significantly more negative experience and stop coming.
Two things -
1. The ADA fights or equal treatment, so why is it fair that a person with a disability, who paid the same amount as you to enter the park, can ride an attraction 5 times on a busy day with no effort, simply whipping out their GAC, while you are able to ride twice, if you're lucky? And think of how many people are unfamiliar with the parks and aren't as savvy, they most likely get to ride once or not at all... yet they paid the same price.

2. Again, this is something that if you don't see the abuse firsthand, it won't seem like a big deal to you. And Disney is riding on that - the people who don't know.

I know this thread is way too long. But I can't help it. I use a GAC. I know there is abuse as well. I see it while I wait. But you were speaking of individuals with disabilities here. Someone with a disability (at least like mine) cannot ever have equal treatment. It takes so long to do things that riding a ride 5 times on a busy day with no effort is actually impossible. Finding a bathroom that is not used by someone that doesn't need a companion room and using the bathroom takes longer. Eating takes longer. Navigating stores and transportation takes longer. Transferring onto rides is exhausting. Usually I just ask if I can "go around again" rather than to get off and back on later. I feel lucky I can ride even once. Most rides are not avalable to me. MK rides for me = Jungle Cruise, Flying Carpets, Little Mermaid, It's a Small World, Buzz Lightyear, Winnie the Pooh, the River Boat, the Train and if I have 2 people to help me Haunted Mansion. And yes I can see theater style sttractions/shows (but not always from a good vantage point), play SotMK (except on Main Street), see characters, parades and fireworks. I don't ask for a discount (like I get at Sea World) since I can't do Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Pirates, Tree House, Dumbo, Astro Orbiter, TTA, those race cars, Peter Pan, (I couldn't do Snow White and probably not the new ride) and get turned away from things when the wheelchair areas are taken up even though I've waited in line. In MK, Little Mermaid, Winnie the Pooh, Haunted Mansion, Flying Carpets, Jungle Cruise, Small World all have special cars which mean that I wait in line to get to another line for a special car. Many times I see the ride cycle several times while I wait for my turn. So having a special card that gets me to the place to wait for the special car does make it look like I have a fast pass. But if you don't see how much longer the wait is, you don't know.
I appreciate all Disney does that makes it possible for me to do a few things. I am grateful, but would hate to be limited to a certain number of rides per day. If I can ride Jungle Cruise three times in one day, I might be the only way I can fill the day. I think they understand and want all people to be able to enjoy what they can. I go frequently and see abuse of GAC every time, but I accept the abuse because of how the program enables me to have a good time. I don't complain. Just takes away from the vacation attitude. If others want to stop coming because they think things aren't fair and people are getting away with stuff, it just makes it less crowded on my visits. And I'm happy to take the bad with the good, just like in life.
I understand where you are coming from, I really do, but you should also try to see things from our perspective.
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
It is a problem and one without an answer. People with Disabilities should not have to dismiss medical privacy laws at Disney or anywhere else. Yet to stay off the creepity that pretend and abuse accommodations it would be at the expense of guests in need ADA assistance.

When I am the Empress of the World, before new laws are passed, the legislators will have to think out the road blocks, solutions and costs before they vote.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You make some good points here, specifically what I bolded. Having said that, I still maintain that the general concept of allowing certain GAC users alternative entrance (using the Fastpass queue) is a reasonable accommodation and not something that falls under abuse. Where it becomes a problem is when those guests are utilizing the GAC for multiple rides on an attraction, especially the higher demand attractions.

I hope this was simply poor writing on your part.

"...allowing certain GAC users alternative entrance (using the Fastpass queue) is a reasonable accommodation and not something that falls under abuse"

The abuse is never on the side of Disney providing the accommodation or legit users using the accommodation. The abuse is on the side of the illegitimate customers taking advantage of the accommodations Disney is offering or excess use of the accommodation to the point where the legit user really stands above everyone else.

The problem with the accomodations themselves - is they are simply lazy and excessive vs what they need to be for most cases. That is the excess sweetness that is attracting the abuse.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
People with problems and disability need to know that these are there own problems and not societies. Some things are just not attainable by people with disability. If a person is unable to move his/her legs then they cannot expect to be able to climb Mt. Everest.

While this may seem as 'cold' - its true. The point of ADA is to ensure these people don't get EXCLUDED or discriminated against.. not that we must make them the Six Million Dollar man that can do anything. It very much started out this way... but like most civil law in this country in the last 20+ years has gone off the tracks and err'd towards supporting inclusion to the point of absurdity.

If ADA would lighten up just a little and realize the not requiring any proof of disability (some are obvious, some are not), then they could once again take advantage of the extras that are put in place to help them without having to feel like everyone is looking at them with a judgmental eye.

We should keep some perspective here too.. ADA as applied at many places isn't an issue here.. simply as it is implemented at Disney and others with lots of queuing. I mean at a grocery store it's not a big deal for the customer to simply ask at the counter for some assistance and they should accommodate them without some strict requirement of proof. You don't have everyone demanding accommodations from the grocery store because the accommodation offered isn't that beneficial to those who don't really need it.

The problem is in the theme park the lure of the accommodations being offered are just too tempting for the people with less morals to resist lying for. Requiring proof would cut down the abuse - but this is more a localized problem.. not an 'everywhere' problem and hence why changing the laws probably aren't a good direction. But better qualifying what is reasonable accomodation in a theme park would help by defining what the minimums should be.
 
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