Pirates Queue Modifications

[devoy1701]

But at the same time...if every attraction has a FP...it puts them all back on the same level and cancels out this mentality.

every attraction still isn't going to have FP though.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

every attraction still isn't going to have FP though.

I understand that...I was just saying that to over-exaggerate my point.
The more times you see that an attraction has FP, the less special FP becomes.

 

[Bolna]

Good idea. The uplift though isn't designed for people though, and isn't at a comfortable angle. There are also some cross pipes that would need moving and the like. As well as the right hand line bridge, as you said.

It was however looked at in 2005. They decided it was too much money for what they would achieve.

That's a shame - because as I understand it, that would get rid of the one thing I absolutely hate about Pirates: the moving walkway/escalator at the exit. For me it is the single one thematic intrusion that bothers me the most in all of WDW.

 

[devoy1701]

I understand that...I was just saying that to over-exaggerate my point.
The more times you see that an attraction has FP, the less special FP becomes.

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think that's going to be the case. FP is still going to be limited access (to what extent we don't know) and limited availability, so even if more attractions tote the option, park guests are still going to see it as a luxury perk. Especially if Disney continues with the "Skip the Line" promos and collateral. I think that is the basis for the point I'm trying to argue, even though you're adding more attractions, and even though there will be some share shift of people moving over from the Stand-by lines, FP is still going to be marketed as a desirable perk that you just need to have if you're going to tour the parks "correctly." I see demand for them going up when FP+ comes online.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Good idea. The uplift though isn't designed for people though, and isn't at a comfortable angle. There are also some cross pipes that would need moving and the like. As well as the right hand line bridge, as you said.

It was however looked at in 2005. They decided it was too much money for what they would achieve.

The lift looks to be less of an angle than the one used @ Maelstrom. I thought it was the design weight capacity of the lift to simply pull the weight up.

Yeah I remember that it was considered, but now you can say some of the preliminary work is done with an area to combine right and left queue's.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think that's going to be the case. FP is still going to be limited access (to what extent we don't know) and limited availability, so even if more attractions tote the option, park guests are still going to see it as a luxury perk. Especially if Disney continues with the "Skip the Line" promos and collateral. I think that is the basis for the point I'm trying to argue, even though you're adding more attractions, and even though there will be some share shift of people moving over from the Stand-by lines, FP is still going to be marketed as a desirable perk that you just need to have if you're going to tour the parks "correctly." I see demand for them going up when FP+ comes online.

Oh I completely agree...
My only opinion that differed was that people will think that an attraction "must be" better because it has FP.

I was just taking the comment to mean that people will think the attractions are E tickets because they have FP...and I'm just saying that the more attractions you add to the FP program, the more people will think that until they actually experience them.

 

[flynnibus]

But at the same time...if every attraction has a FP...it puts them all back on the same level and cancels out this mentality.

Not if FP is still 'scarce' in availability...

 

[RSoxNo1]

The problem you are ignoring is that this situation will spread throughout the park. Those not paying for FastPass Plus are expected to experience less attractions per day. Disney's hope is that instead of complaining, most people will not recognize how much [extra] time was spent waiting around (because they were distracted by the interactive queue) and will not be too upset, but maybe upset enough to seriously consider buying FastPass Plus.

It's sounding like Fastpass+ is going to be included as part of vacation packages, won't be for AP holders, and is going to be pushed back further than they wanted to.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The Argument that I was trying to make is that Pirates Fastpass+ Usage probably won't be nearly as high as other high profile attractions, such as Space and Splash that already offer fastpass. So on off-peak times when Pirates wait isn't long, and there is essentially no fastpass usage they can still send Stand-by down the other side. They'll fill the boats, obvious fastpass first, but when there is no fastpass usage in the morning and evening they can fill them with stand-by.

That was what I meant anyway.

To clarify the other point, I for Fastpass wait, I was referring to the time it takes from when you enter the queue, those are the waits that are getting shorter. Not the time between the reservation and the return. Those are two independent points.

Pirates won't be as widely used as Space Mountain Fastpass+, but they're putting it in the rotation so that it will be used. When people walked by The Haunted Mansion when it previously had Fastpass they saw a 13 minute wait and elected not to get a Fastpass. However, that "walk by" isn't happening now and that family that would have otherwise waited 13 minutes is going to use their Fastpass+ reservation for a shorter wait (say 5 minutes) and make it a 20 minute wait for the rest of us.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I said this from the beginning, actually, but changed my tune on it... Reason being, Iger made a comment in reference to Nextgen that they decided "they wouldn't have to charge for it" because they would be able to "realize other streams of revenue" because of it. I'm paraphrasing, obviously... But that's what I recall... So since then, I'm really at a loss on how they're going to do it.

My current thought is that they'll go the "drug dealer" route. They'll give it away for free to everyone. Get everyone used to it. Get them to remember all the extra fastpasses they used in their trip. Get them to remember walking past all those people in standby for PotC. Then they'll pull it back and start charging and people will think "well, if I don't buy it or stay onsite, I'll be that dude in the standby line for PoTC and HM and I don't want to be that guy".

It was Jim Hill passing along information. We have him on our show coming out on Sunday and we talk about this. It's the same way Disney doesn't charge for the monorail, Magical Express or any of the other "freebies". It's all built into the cost of that room.

 

[RSoxNo1]

This is why I think some form of the existing FP system will remain in place while FP+ is layered on top as a resort guest perk.

Day guests and AP holders will be able to continue to use FP in some incarnation but likely won't have the "book ahead" option that FP+ users will have.

I ran percentages for each park with Fastpass+ availability. Assuming that the maximum distribution of Fastpass+ reservations at an average day at the park are 4 for the Magic Kingdom and 3 for each of the other parks (source: presentation made by Imagineers).
Assuming every guest has access to and redeems all Fastpass+ reservations they will utilize the following percentages of Fastpass
Magic Kingdom:
271% of current Fastpasses at available Fastpass attractions
96% of expanded Fastpasses at expanded Fastpass+ attractions

Epcot:
158% current
78% expanded

Hollywood Studios
141% current
65% expanded

Animal Kingdom
159% current
114% expanded

These numbers are based on estimated attraction capacity, known Fastpass attractions, and known Fastpass+ additions. Frankly for this system to work it can't be used by the masses. If it's only a premium perk available to 10% of guests in advance the impact will be minimal. But a much simpler solution would be what they do in Disneyland on occasion - give hotel guests vouchers for additional Fastpasses for each day of their stay.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I have never redeemed a Surprise FP. I think most people either keep them or throw them away.

The Surprise Fastpasses showcase why the necessities (extra Fastpass attractions) to make Fastpass+ work are ill conceived. Once people are in the park the mentality is usually that people won't get a Fastpass for an attraction if the wait is short (short is an arbitrary period of time). Fastpass+ eliminates that level of knowledge because guests don't know what the wait is at the attraction when they book it. The point of setting up these extra Fastpass attractions is to spread out crowds better (and to sell guests on the faux value). Surprise Fastpasses have the same goal and really don't work all that well.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Okay, mostly I'd say the "theories" about FP+ reach "X-files" levels of absurd conspiracy theories, BUT if it *does* turn out that a AP holder like myself either can't get FP, or has to pay for it- that will be the last time I darken Disney's door. The end.

It sounds like you may be disappointed.

 

[Texas84]

So, is there anything else going on in there besides re-routing the queues?

 

[devoy1701]

I have a question... all of the talk I have heard suggests that TWDC has spent $1B+ on the NextGen/FP+ development and implementation. All of this investment can't be for WDW alone, yet I haven't heard any ramblings of this coming to Disneyland. Is it? And if so how is it being recieved? @Lee @WDW1974 @RSoxNo1 (i dont know Martin's full handle to tag him)

 

[RSoxNo1]

Disneyland Fastpass doesn't seem to be changing right now. They still allow late returns as well.

 

[flynnibus]

I have a question... all of the talk I have heard suggests that TWDC has spent $1B+ on the NextGen/FP+ development and implementation. All of this investment can't be for WDW alone, yet I haven't heard any ramblings of this coming to Disneyland. Is it? And if so how is it being recieved? @Lee @WDW1974 @RSoxNo1 (i dont know Martin's full handle to tag him)

originally it was said DL was saying 'keep away..' and other tidbits have inferred that stand-off nature has softened a bit. There is nothing to say they will be adopting it in the first wave.. but I bet they pickup on alot of the development and new systems created over time as refresh cycles come up.

 

[Tip Top Club]

It sounds like you may be disappointed.

No it doesn't, don't listen to the doom and gloomers.

And in reference to Disneyland, they are looking into it, but if it does happen it will be way down the line.

 

[RSoxNo1]

No it doesn't, don't listen to the doom and gloomers.

And in reference to Disneyland, they are looking into it, but if it does happen it will be way down the line.

The latest rumblings are that this isn't going to be for annual passholders, but for people that book vacation packages.

 

[Tip Top Club]

You're only listening to the rumblings you want to hear.