Pinioned birds at Animal Kingdom—UPDATED

[Goofyernmost]

I somehow missed this reply yesterday. Your pet analogy makes it seem as if I was suggesting that animals already in captivity should be released into the wild, which is clearly not my argument. We have a responsibility to care for existing captive populations, which cannot survive without human care. That doesn’t mean we can’t phase out the practice of breeding future generations of animals that aren’t endangered.

I apologize that my wording was misleading, but, no I wasn't advocating that all current animals be released, but, we can't have double standards here. Animals are animals whether or not they are dogs, cats, mice, elephants or birds. We can't decide that some animals should be left out in the wild to fend for themselves, imagine if they are happy or not and then pick a few that are considered "part of the family" and think that keeping them enclosed or on a leash is something that makes them happy.

There has to be a middle road. Having animals in places like Disney where research is done can overall possibly improve the conditions of not only captive, but also animals in the wild. Not having any of that makes us unable to know what is worthy of life or what becomes our hunting hobby or our food.

The food chain exists and it is very doubtful that except for those on the top of that food chain have a high percentage of dying of old age. We would have generations of people that would not be able to tell the difference between a Tiger and Wolf. There has to be a logical place for that to happen. As time goes fewer of the "bad" zoo's will exist and only the ones that do protect, feed and care for those animals will exist. And it will be beneficial, not only to the process of making sure that they don't become naturally extinct, but, enable us to help them to stay healthy, fed and still part of the world. An antelope that is being eaten alive by a lion is probably not all that happy.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

Its really Nahtazu

Notazoo / Nahtazu
Potato / Tomato

 

[LittleBuford]

I apologize that my wording was misleading, but, no I wasn't advocating that all current animals be released, but, we can't have double standards here. Animals are animals whether or not they are dogs, cats, mice, elephants or birds. We can't decide that some animals should be left out in the wild to fend for themselves, imagine if they are happy or not and then pick a few that are considered "part of the family" and think that keeping them enclosed or on a leash is something that makes them happy.

There has to be a middle road. Having animals in places like Disney where research is done can overall possibly improve the conditions of not only captive, but also animals in the wild. Not having any of that makes us unable to know what is worthy of life or what becomes our hunting hobby or our food.

The food chain exists and it is very doubtful that except for those on the top of that food chain have a high percentage of dying of old age. We would have generations of people that would not be able to tell the difference between a Tiger and Wolf. There has to be a logical place for that to happen. As time goes fewer of the "bad" zoo's will exist and only the ones that do protect, feed and care for those animals will exist. And it will be beneficial, not only to the process of making sure that they don't become naturally extinct, but, enable us to help them to stay healthy, fed and still part of the world. An antelope that is being eaten alive by a lion is probably not all that happy.

Domesticated cats and dogs are just that—domesticated. Their behaviour and instincts have changed after thousands of years of living with and among people, and though strays can and do survive, both species generally depend on human care.

Wild animals are a different matter entirely. Yes, they are kept away from predators and may live longer in captivity, but that isn’t a good argument for removing them from their natural habitat. (And again, to be absolutely clear, my comments don’t pertain to conservation efforts surrounding endangered species.)

 

[LittleBuford]

View attachment 333184

And what conclusions are being jumped to?

 

[networkpro]

And what conclusions are being jumped to?

See a bird that is normally capable of flight in a captive situation and assuming that its the result of a random surgical procedure instead of feather trimming.

 

[LittleBuford]

See a bird that is normally capable of flight in a captive situation and assuming that its the result of a random surgical procedure instead of feather trimming.

You are right that I am making assumptions about that particular vulture, though they are based on what I was able to find out about how other captive birds of prey are kept flightless. Since my initial post, I have found a source that confirms that that vultures at Animal Kingdom Lodge are pinioned, together with a number of other birds there (including a chick bred at AK itself): https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...late+TAGs+Mixed-Species+Manual+2017.final.pdf (see p. 434).

The procedure isn’t random; it’s standard practice in zoos. And for all its visual splendour, AK is still a zoo at the end of the day.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

 

[networkpro]

There are both state and federal regulations for maintaining positive control of introduced species...now. So we've got nutria, kudzu, hydrilla, green iguanas, burmese pythons, coqui, cane toads, three species of primates, etc. because people decided that it would be neat to bring some with them to Florida.

The Federal portion is contained into the Lacey act first passed in 1900 and updated to include invasive species.

 

[LittleBuford]

There are both state and federal regulations for maintaining positive control of introduced species...now. So we've got nutria, kudzu, hydrilla, green iguanas, burmese pythons, coqui, cane toads, three species of primates, etc. because people decided that it would be neat to bring some with them to Florida.

The Federal portion is contained into the Lacey act first passed in 1900 and updated to include invasive species.

Is this in response to my reply to you? If so, I don’t understand the connection.

 

[LittleBuford]

You have already made up your mind so i don't see a discussion getting anywhere.

It works both ways: you too have already made up your mind. As I said earlier, I didn’t create this thread with the intention or hope of converting anyone to my way of thinking. That’s not how this forum works anyway.

 

[networkpro]

Is this in response to my reply to you? If so, I don’t understand the connection.

As the OP of this thread, you stated that you were against a practice. I noted in my last post in reply that there were legal reasons why this occurs. Your outrage is misplaced and you've demonstrated that you are willing to compromise your objections so you won't miss an attraction.

If you want to see buzzards in flight, just go to the Contemporary resort on a sunny day. There are plenty of them catching updrafts off the face of the building.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

It works both ways: you too have already made up your mind. As I said earlier, I didn’t create this thread with the intention or hope of converting anyone to my way of thinking. That’s not how this forum works anyway.

Not true sir.
If someone were to show evidence the proves this practice is cruell and barbaric and against the animals welfare i would certainly change my mind.
There has to be a balance in a modern zoo between the conservation and what the paying public (who fund the conservation) want to see.
As of now i haven't seen anything to change my mind.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

As the OP of this thread, you stated that you were against a practice. I noted in my last post in reply that there were legal reasons why this occurs. Your outrage is misplaced and you've demonstrated that you are willing to compromise your objections so you won't miss an attraction.

If you want to see buzzards in flight, just go to the Contemporary resort on a sunny day. There are plenty of them catching updrafts off the face of the building.

I have never noticed that. Will keep an eye out next time.

 

[networkpro]

Is this in response to my reply to you? If so, I don’t understand the connection.

As the OP of this thread, you stated that you were against a practice. I noted in my last post in reply that there were legal reasons why this occurs. Your outrage is misplaced and you've demonstrated that you are willing to compromise your objections so you won't miss an attraction.

If you want to see buzzards in flight, just go to the Contemporary resort on a sunny day. There are plenty of them catching updrafts off the face of the building.

 

[networkpro]

I have never noticed that. Will keep an eye out next time.

They roost on Discovery Island

 

[21stamps]

I’ve only read the OP... zoos are a great asset to people and animals. Both need the conservation efforts, education, and awareness.

 

[21stamps]

You’re suggesting I’m being a hypocrite, which I’m not. Our cats (both now dead unfortunately) were rescues, and neither was declawed. They were neutered, but only because we didn’t wish to add to the existing problem of unwanted animals. If I had my way, the pet industry wouldn’t exist—there are already so many stray and shelter animals in need of loving homes.

ETA: Longevity isn’t a measure of happiness.

Pets should be neutered, regardless of if you’re for or against zoos. I’m with you on that one.

As a side note, Some breeds are specifically companion animals, never intended to be in the wild.

 

[Gitson Shiggles]

Some breeds are specifically companion animals, never intended to be in the wild.

You mean you’ve never crossed a pack of feral chihuahuas?

 

[21stamps]

You mean you’ve never crossed a pack of feral chihuahuas?

Fortunately, no. Lol

 

[Gitson Shiggles]

The dislike is there because there is a lack of understanding of what modern zoos consist of.

@LittleBuford has a sincerely held belief, in spite of scholarly research, that one would think could afford him understanding anthropogenic climate change skepticism.