PHOTOS - Disney reveals new lobby design and Trader Sam's lounge for the Polynesian

[Kman101]

There are so many people who just should not have Twitter to begin with.

Second of all, it's clear they know that the majority of feedback hasn't been great towards removing the large water feature. So it sounds like they're trying to argue back 'the real reason' and act smug about it.

The real reason is, it probably 'costs too much' and there's no way they'd admit to that being the reason.

And then it sounds like some 'fans' decided to act like lunatics, which doesn't surprise me, and really helps to lessen the case the sane ones are making.

Or I'm missing what actually happened.

 

[jlsHouston]

If life were only that simple and the truth would be enough to calm everyone. The line from A Few Good Men rings true more often then people want to admit... "You can't handle the truth!"

Is ever intention angelic? Of course not... but customers may act like they want to know how and why a company functions and makes decisions... but in reality they don't. They want to hear the bits they want, and dismiss the parts they don't agree with or don't have to burden themselves. At the end of the day, you can never win trying to explain all the compromises and constraints you work within.

People look back and think "Walt told us everything!" - no... Walt used the design process as a promotional tool to build up just how "non-average" and unique his product was.

I know what you are saying and you are right but...truth is truth. It can be good it can be bad but it is truth and by that virtue it stands, whether anybody likes it or not. I don't think WDI has to justify every decision process, but there needs to be improved transparency, especially when they start making sweeping changes, and especially if they value the long time customer base and especially if they truly want to continue the trust and faith the brand has inspired because of Walt and his business practices.

 

[flynnibus]

I know what you are saying and you are right but...truth is truth. It can be good it can be bad but it is truth and by that virtue it stands, whether anybody likes it or not. I don't think WDI has to justify every decision process, but there needs to be improved transparency, especially when they start making sweeping changes, and especially if they value the long time customer base and especially if they truly want to continue the trust and faith the brand has inspired because of Walt and his business practices.

It can work in all kinds of ways. Look at Apple... they take the mindset of "we don't have to explain ourselves... ignore the detractors and the products will speak for themselves"

More often then not - customers make horrible product managers. You have to listen to what the customers needs and desires are... but you should not look to your customers as your business consultant.

 

[EpcoTim]

It can work in all kinds of ways. Look at Apple... they take the mindset of "we don't have to explain ourselves... ignore the detractors and the products will speak for themselves"

Yeah, but you need unflinchable quality and a seriously dedicated fan base for that to work. Disney has one of those.

 

[jlsHouston]

It can work in all kinds of ways. Look at Apple... they take the mindset of "we don't have to explain ourselves... ignore the detractors and the products will speak for themselves"

More often then not - customers make horrible product managers. You have to listen to what the customers needs and desires are... but you should not look to your customers as your business consultant.

And the key part here is.."listen to what the customers needs and desires are..."

 

[flynnibus]

And the key part here is.."listen to what the customers needs and desires are..."

But that doesn't mean "do what the customer says" - as I said, more often then not they make horrible choices. What you do is listen to what their underlying need is.. and address it in a way that works for your needs and hopefully exceeds their expectations. Remember... the consumer knows how to to CONSUME, not how to build/design/sustain/etc.

You can ignore the customer's ask, and still make them happy if you understand what their actual need is.. not their ask.

 

[flynnibus]

Yeah, but you need unflinchable quality and a seriously dedicated fan base for that to work. Disney has one of those.

The fan base came as a result of Apple's choices.. not before. Let's not forget... the vast majority of Apple zealots today do not know Apple prior to OSX or the iPod

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

It can work in all kinds of ways. Look at Apple... they take the mindset of "we don't have to explain ourselves... ignore the detractors and the products will speak for themselves"

More often then not - customers make horrible product managers. You have to listen to what the customers needs and desires are... but you should not look to your customers as your business consultant.

I think there's some truth to this, but I'd also point out what I see as a fundamental difference between "Apple fans" and "Disney fans."

Apple fans are fundamentally driven by an appreciation for the future. Every new product, every new tweak made in a newer version of an existing product, is exciting, exhilarating, self-evidently good. Change is ALWAYS good, because that's what they're there for-constantly seeking change, constantly seeking the new.

Meanwhile, Disney Parks fans seem to be mostly driven by a love of history: A history of "Walt's Park" in Anaheim, of the "Vacation Kingdom" in Florida, of an early Epcot and the 1964 NY World's fair and their historical visions of the future. And most importantly, of a personal history, of vacations with family, visits as a child, of a yearning to return to simpler times.

This is why you see people mourning the loss of Mickey's Toontown Fair, Camp Minnie-Mickey, why someday you'll see people howl and holler if they ever tear down Chester and Hester or whatever that Jack Sparrow thing is at the Studios. Even if what comes after is a better product, the previous thing will always mean something to somebody. There will always be somebody with a family memory there, someone who lost a first tooth on a churro in Dinoland, or thoroughly enjoyed a four and a half hour wait to meet some college co-eds in wigs and costumes. It's the same reason why people protest the closing of the neighborhood school that they went to, even if it's failing. People don't like losing things that are important to them.

Buying an iPad 2 doesn't negate the time you spent with your first-gen iPad. You can still use it as a paperweight, or whatever.

Things are not places.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

If life were only that simple and the truth would be enough to calm everyone. The line from A Few Good Men rings true more often then people want to admit... "You can't handle the truth!"

Is ever intention angelic? Of course not... but customers may act like they want to know how and why a company functions and makes decisions... but in reality they don't. They want to hear the bits they want, and dismiss the parts they don't agree with or don't have to burden themselves. At the end of the day, you can never win trying to explain all the compromises and constraints you work within.

People look back and think "Walt told us everything!" - no... Walt used the design process as a promotional tool to build up just how "non-average" and unique his product was.

Flynnibus, I agree with everything you said.

I also see no problem with using the design and building process as a tool to show people just how special his projects were.

KK

 

[jlsHouston]

The fan base came as a result of Apple's choices.. not before. Let's not forget... the vast majority of Apple zealots today do not know Apple prior to OSX or the iPod

Because..their majority are 40 and younger.

 

[jlsHouston]

I think there's some truth to this, but I'd also point out what I see as a fundamental difference between "Apple fans" and "Disney fans."

Apple fans are fundamentally driven by an appreciation for the future. Every new product, every new tweak made in a newer version of an existing product, is exciting, exhilarating, self-evidently good. Change is ALWAYS good, because that's what they're there for-constantly seeking change, constantly seeking the new.

Meanwhile, Disney Parks fans seem to be mostly driven by a love of history: A history of "Walt's Park" in Anaheim, of the "Vacation Kingdom" in Florida, of an early Epcot and the 1964 NY World's fair and their historical visions of the future. And most importantly, of a personal history, of vacations with family, visits as a child, of a yearning to return to simpler times.

This is why you see people mourning the loss of Mickey's Toontown Fair, Camp Minnie-Mickey, why someday you'll see people howl and holler if they ever tear down Chester and Hester or whatever that Jack Sparrow thing is at the Studios. Even if what comes after is a better product, the previous thing will always mean something to somebody. There will always be somebody with a family memory there, someone who lost a first tooth on a churro in Dinoland, or thoroughly enjoyed a four and a half hour wait to meet some college co-eds in wigs and costumes. It's the same reason why people protest the closing of the neighborhood school that they went to, even if it's failing. People don't like losing things that are important to them.

Buying an iPad 2 doesn't negate the time you spent with your first-gen iPad. You can still use it as a paperweight, or whatever.

Things are not places.

Thank you. And this is why Disney needs truth and transparency when rolling out changes.

 

[Communicora]

The TikiMan has a write-up about the changes:

http://www.tikimanpages.com/poly/news/item/201-polynesian-village-announcement

He confirms that Trader Sam's east will be more a family friendly lounge than a bar.

This is disappointing. They would do well to offer more adult only experiences.

 

[Tim Lohr]

I do like the new smaller fountain with Tiki-man logo statue, and the rest of new lobby design looks like a cross between The Animal Kingdom Lodge lobby and the AK DVC lobby... which kinda what I expected anyway

AK Lodge (Jambo House)

AK DVC lobby (Kidani Village)

 

[jlsHouston]

I do like the new smaller fountain with Tiki-man logo statue, and the rest of new lobby design looks like a cross between The Animal Kingdom Lodge lobby and the AK DVC lobby... which kinda what I expected anyway

AK Lodge (Jambo House)

AK DVC lobby (Kidani Village)

Now I see what that other poster was commenting the similarities in design between the new POLY lobby and AK and WL.
Maybe they were going for the open center to get more usable space. The majesty of the lobbies of AK and WL work, I just think the fountain is too scaled down and we need more foilage in the POLY lobby. The majesty of the POLY lobby should continue to be it's fountain.

 

[flynnibus]

I think there's some truth to this, but I'd also point out what I see as a fundamental difference between "Apple fans" and "Disney fans."

Apple fans are fundamentally driven by an appreciation for the future. Every new product, every new tweak made in a newer version of an existing product, is exciting, exhilarating, self-evidently good. Change is ALWAYS good, because that's what they're there for-constantly seeking change, constantly seeking the new.

Uhh.. 30pin vs Lightning connector? Dropping floppy drives? Dropping removable media all together? Lack of removable battery? Lack of tactile keyboard on first phone? Lack of 2 button mice? There are plenty of a 'future minded' choices Apple fans have been just as livid over no matter how 'forward thinking' Apple thought they were trying to be.

I hear you with Disney fans favoring nostalgia - they are different markets. But in the spirit of the discussion I don't think that is all that important. This is about what level of transparency and engagement a company should have with it's customers regarding it's product development.

Lets be honest here. Let's assume Disney were to come out and say
"Hello fan community, we are sorry to say that the Polynesian fountain is falling apart and can not continue operation in it's current state. The level of humidity needed to sustain the ecosystem of the fountain is causing long term damage to the building and things inside of it. The continued expansion of the property also requires more service space in the lobby, and we need to reclaim some of the space"

(this is the whole transparency thing in why.. now lets assume they are transparent in what)

"Because of this, we will be redesigning the Grand Ceremonial House to a refreshed Polynesian design that will be more comfortable, more appealing, and will bring the lobby into the 21st century with greater service, amenities, while still offering the sights, smells, and feel of the polynesian islands"

Here you could say "Disney was clear on why" - but would it change anything? No... because many people would say "well if its falling apart, just rebuild it!". These 'fans' don't have to face any of the realities of why they chose not to rebuild it, but they will still have a stubborn opinion of that's what Disney should do.. and nothing else. Now you just have people second guessing what Disney said.. vs accepting what they said.

It's a no win for Disney in a lot of ways because outsiders can pick and chose what they accept and will face.

 

[Tigger1988]

This is disappointing. They would do well to offer more adult only experiences.

Again, the bar will not be family friendly.

 

[flynnibus]

Because..their majority are 40 and younger.

But the business mindset predates them. They are fans because of the RESULT of the business strategy - not because they favor the strategy.

My point of bringing them into the discussion is to illustrate you can have success WITHOUT being your customer's best friend. There is not 'one formula' everyone must follow.. and consumers are NOT interested in sustainable business. They care about one thing only - themselves.

 

[71jason]

Was at Trader Sam's 2 weeks ago around midnight, got a seat at the bar, ordered an original Kungaloosh.

In other words, a "Hoopla."

(Some people are experts on tiki drink culture, I'm an expert on AdvClub drink culture.)

 

[jlsHouston]

Uhh.. 30pin vs Lightning connector? Dropping floppy drives? Dropping removable media all together? Lack of removable battery? Lack of tactile keyboard on first phone? Lack of 2 button mice? There are plenty of a 'future minded' choices Apple fans have been just as livid over no matter how 'forward thinking' Apple thought they were trying to be.

I hear you with Disney fans favoring nostalgia - they are different markets. But in the spirit of the discussion I don't think that is all that important. This is about what level of transparency and engagement a company should have with it's customers regarding it's product development.

Lets be honest here. Let's assume Disney were to come out and say
"Hello fan community, we are sorry to say that the Polynesian fountain is falling apart and can not continue operation in it's current state. The level of humidity needed to sustain the ecosystem of the fountain is causing long term damage to the building and things inside of it. The continued expansion of the property also requires more service space in the lobby, and we need to reclaim some of the space"

(this is the whole transparency thing in why.. now lets assume they are transparent in what)

"Because of this, we will be redesigning the Grand Ceremonial House to a refreshed Polynesian design that will be more comfortable, more appealing, and will bring the lobby into the 21st century with greater service, amenities, while still offering the sights, smells, and feel of the polynesian islands"

Here you could say "Disney was clear on why" - but would it change anything? No... because many people would say "well if its falling apart, just rebuild it!". These 'fans' don't have to face any of the realities of why they chose not to rebuild it, but they will still have a stubborn opinion of that's what Disney should do.. and nothing else. Now you just have people second guessing what Disney said.. vs accepting what they said.

It's a no win for Disney in a lot of ways because outsiders can pick and chose what they accept and will face.

Excellent...I don't know why Disney pays entire departments of social media and marketing when you could write these releases for them.
This is exactly what they need to do. And of course you are going to have people complain and cry and moan but NOBODY could say Disney didn't explain beforehand with a reasonable explanation. Here you have truth and transparency and it translates to trust.

 

[Communicora]

Again, the bar will not be family friendly.

Thanks. I hope that's the case. The Anaheim one is, but everyone I know seems to love it anyway, so I will keep an open mind.