Figment1986
Well-Known Member
and the cheaper the consumer DSLRs become the more of them are around, I saw tons of guests with them on sunday.
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Photog stopped by WDW Security @ DTD - Thoughts on this
- Thread starter mkt
- Start date
and the cheaper the consumer DSLRs become the more of them are around, I saw tons of guests with them on sunday.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
He's on private property. My guess is they asked him several times to stop taknig pics with the camera he was using, he refused, went on his merry way snapping pics, so they booted him. Good for security. Whether or not you agree with the rules doesn't give you the right to break them.
You tend to use phrases like "Yes sir" and "No sir" instead of things like "What's it to you?" and "None of your business rent a cop!" when speaking to security guards. It is just a guess but I am thinking that might have something to do with you lack of incidents.
raven
Well-Known Member
I think people forget that WDW is private property and they think that they are entitled to do anything and act any way they want. Security is just looking out for suspicious behavior and have every right to call Orange Co. for an issue they can't resolve themselves. I don't know Disney's side of the story but I'm just looking at it from a practicle point of view.
ewensell3
Well-Known Member
They are representatives of the property owners. Disrespecting them is disrespecting your hosts.
Master Gracey 5
Active Member
My approach in any situation like this is since I have nothing to hide, then I have no problem cooperating. The minor inconvenience of showing an ID or explaining myself to a few people is considerably less than the inconvenience of being escorted out for a few rude remarks.
What ever happened to simply showing a little respect? I was always taught that you treat everyone with a certain level of respect no matter who they are. Maybe that is why I don't have any stories with "And then the cops got there...."
T-1MILLION
New Member
The "This is a case of a security Guard thinking its a cop" is really uncalled for. Any authority figure can take their power out of hand but the fact is, even if many don't want to admit it or two ignorant to know. We have security guards because there are not enough cops to control everyone and they are deployed by the same departments when licsensed and have very few differences. I agree with Yoda. They are there regardless doing their job to make sure you have a safe time. By law you are required to comply and show ID as said earlier if a Guard asks to see it and you are over the age of 18.
If you comply then they can't do anything if what you doing is kosher, it is as simple as that. You are on private property of a business and they(Disney) has control over that.
To the
"Why would a terrorist want to blow up the house of blues?" comment someone made.
Well any place that can be full of innocent people can be a target. It does not matter what sort of function or place it is. They target anything that will cause terror.
If you comply then they can't do anything if what you doing is kosher, it is as simple as that. You are on private property of a business and they(Disney) has control over that.
To the
"Why would a terrorist want to blow up the house of blues?" comment someone made.
Well any place that can be full of innocent people can be a target. It does not matter what sort of function or place it is. They target anything that will cause terror.
ewensell3
Well-Known Member
What's needed is for someone to go down to DtD and take an absolutely beautiful HoB image (HDR if possible), and reply to the blog with it. Even better if one was approached by security, fully cooperated, and was allowed to continue.
Edit - Not that I would want anyone going down there making trouble. If indeed you encounter a strong security presence, respect their requests, bow out quietly, and report your experience.
Edit - Not that I would want anyone going down there making trouble. If indeed you encounter a strong security presence, respect their requests, bow out quietly, and report your experience.
I would seriously doubt there is any law that says you must show ID to a security guard. Sure they can ask for it.
There are very significant differences between a cop and a security guard. For example, one can arrest you, and the other cannot.
I believe the issue that has been raised is that "some" security guards go on a power trip and like to pick on people to display their "power". This is obviously not the case for all of them, but certainly I have encountered a few at WDW who display that attitude.
ewensell3
Well-Known Member
While security guards are not cops, one must also consider that many rights as a citizen do not apply on private property (free speech, free movement, bear arms, etc). While a security guard may not be able to compel you to show your ID, they are well within their rights to eject you from their property for any reason. Non-compliance of a request is more than enough reason to firmly direct you to the exit and request that you do not return.
Not to bring this thread up again, but...
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=39248&highlight=festival
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=39248&highlight=festival
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
You tend to use phrases like "Yes sir" and "No sir" instead of things like "What's it to you?" and "None of your business rent a cop!" when speaking to security guards. It is just a guess but I am thinking that might have something to do with you lack of incidents.
Well yes and no.
I dont walk through the front gates with a 400/2.8. I will walk onto Safaris with a 300/4 & a teleconverter.
I look low key, i look like a tourist, albeit generally with 2 small cameras. I don't interfere with anyone else's experience, i play by all the rules. I joke with CMs & WDW security. I don't advertise that I am a professional or whom any of my clients have been.
I get the pictures I want from a guest perspective without sticking out.
I work around cops and crime scenes. I know how to behave around them and how to get what i want from them, which is generally to be left alone.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Apples & Oranges. In all these cases, the person with the camera could have avoided the altercation if they wanted to.
kc1296426
Active Member
I have only been approached after hours at Epcot... they had a right, as it was 10pm & the park closed at 9, but I was just taking pictures while walking through innoventions to the exit. It's annoying how some security think they can do that, I'm the most polite person in the world but I just feel like some are very rude. I'm only 16, yet they think they can harass the hell out of me just over photos. What harm am I really going to do over this?
I relate to this story, the guy had every right to take pictures. He wasn't being rude & oblidged to leave when asked, and was taking pictures of something in plain sight in the public.
I relate to this story, the guy had every right to take pictures. He wasn't being rude & oblidged to leave when asked, and was taking pictures of something in plain sight in the public.
slappy magoo
Well-Known Member
Assuming things happened as he wrote that they happened.
I'm not saying they didn't. I'm just saying that we've got one version of this particular story.
As others have said, Disney is private property. Even if you're not in one of the parks (as it is free to walk around DTD), it's still private property. If anyone thinks he or she was rudely handled by a security guard, you have every right to complain up the chain of command. This photographer in question had every right to go to Security and ask , or complain to DTD's management team. Instead, he complained on his blog and threatened to never go back because he's on "the list."
I know that sometimes security guards - anyone with a level of authority or responsible for crowd control, really - can overreact to a given situation. But if you opt to complain - and make sure that your complaint is legitimate, literate and detailed - the results often do work wonders. The problem with complaints is that the complainers often (not always) don't handle themselves well. Whether they're still angry from the incident, or partially in the wrong themselves but trying not to admit it, they come across as overemotional, whereas the authority figures often keep their cool and come off looking like they made the right call. Calm, reasoned criticism over a situation where you think you were treated poorly, on the other hand, makes YOU seem like a calm and reasonable individual (I often find having a sense of humor about the situation helps a lot, too. If you're so calm and collected you can find the humor in the situation, it often catches people off-guard; being rational AND putting the other person on the defensive is always a big plus). Slight change of topic, but this is one of a million reasons why it's so important to be able to speak and write well. Sure, once in a while you're going to find someone who's out to "get you" no matter how you present yourself. More often than not, though, being able to interact with others, that fine lost art of schmoozing, will get you much farther than being confrontational.
Cashiers and Bartenders are required to verify the age of anyone purchasing alcohol and are permitted by law to request a valid ID. Security guards are not entitled to ask for Identification nor are you required to present identification. This whole "terrorist" excuse is nonsense. Terrorists will look more like tourists, using regular cameras/camera phones to get their images. And contrary to popular belief, blowing up the House of Blues wouldn't be in their interest. They want as many casualties as they can get. Small isolated venues like that are of no interest to them.
That said, Disney has the right to tell people "no pictures." But in that blog post it isn't clear that security actually asked him to stop. Security seemed more interested in harassing him than anything else. At least according to him. But I agree his attitude probably is what got security all riled up.
T-1MILLION said:
Wrong. Security guards have no real power under the law. You are not required by any law to show a security guard your government-issued ID. Security guards don't exist because of the lack of police either, since security guards don't have any police powers. Security guards are just that: they monitor for potential problems, generally to limit the liability of property owners. They aren't there to replace the police.
T-1MILLION said:
Actually, they can. Since it is private property they can remove you for any reason you want (except for that which os protected by law). If you can prove that you were discriminated against, then you can sue in court.
T-1MILLION said:
Nope. Terrorists aren't interested in small targets like the House of Blues(well, political terrorists like Al-Qaida, which is what we're really talking about). They want large targets that will cause a lot of casualties or damage to infrastructure. They aren't interested in making a "we can get you anywhere" point.
ewensell3 said:
Exactly. And if you think you are being wronged and that they are overstepping your bounds, write a complaint to the Company. If you aren't satisfied with their response and have evidence (such as witnesses), you can even take them to court.
I think the operative question here is since he was approached by 3 other guards before the "boss" came himself, how long exactly was he there taking pictures? I can only guess he must have been in about the same spot for an extended period of time, 20+ minutes.
I can't help but feel there is much more to this story than what was posted.
Also the consumerist.com is not this guys private blog. It is a website dedicated to consumer complaints and such owned by the Consumer Union/Consumer Reports.
Edit:
Here is William Beem's own blog post with his full story which was slightly edited on the consumerist I think: http://williambeem.com/?p=330
I can't help but feel there is much more to this story than what was posted.
Also the consumerist.com is not this guys private blog. It is a website dedicated to consumer complaints and such owned by the Consumer Union/Consumer Reports.
Edit:
Here is William Beem's own blog post with his full story which was slightly edited on the consumerist I think: http://williambeem.com/?p=330