Pay more, get less. When does it end?

DryerLintFan

Premium Member
I don't disagree, but their main priority is to gouge and exploit the price of an average family stay. Any captured revenue after that average is just gravy.
Far more families stay for 3-5 days vs. those that stay 10 days. It makes sense to exploit the 3-5 days.
Hell, adding the water park option for my family of 4 only cost us an extra $100.
10 days of water parks for "only" $100! They know you're already getting gouged.

The main purpose of any corporation is to benefit the stockholders by turning a high profit. Whether it comes from families that stay 3 days and pay a premium for a short trip, or families that stay 14 days and spend more money for longer, they're both giving the Parks profit.
 

HansGruber

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Actually it's the opposte, I think now the general customer gets it. I think it's the "old timer" who compare it to back in the day who are dissatisfied.
Ok so I'm making a few assumptions but let's go with a common complaint here about rides not being "E" ticket. Unless you are of a certain age, how many folks care if a "ride" is E ticket. Now I've been accused of "accepting" mediocrity but I don't go on rides thinking like that, i say "was" it fun. Now again I didn't go until the 2000s so my experience is limited.
So I would say its "rose" colored to the point where we (older visitors) are viewing every thing on a long ago time.

I understand your point, but that isn't really the definition of wearing 'rose-colored glasses'.
My use of that term refers to the segment of people who are obsessed with Disney. In their eyes, Disney can do no harm. They will visit the park on a consistent basis, regardless. Any criticism about Disney will be met with anger and passive-aggressiveness. It's like a coddling parent who never scolds their obnoxious child.

I'm not debating their desires; but at least have a little objectivity on the matter.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I understand your point, but that isn't really the definition of wearing 'rose-colored glasses'.
My use of that term refers to the segment of people who are obsessed with Disney. In their eyes, Disney can do no harm. They will visit the park on a consistent basis, regardless. Any criticism about Disney will be met with anger and passive-aggressiveness. It's like a coddling parent who never scolds their obnoxious child.

I'm not debating their desires; but at least have a little objectivity on the matter.

No. You're incorrectly classifying a segment of visitors. Most people just go because they enjoy it. Because they don’t see the sense in constantly whining about the past. Because they’re glass half full people. Because they still see value.

I’ll never understand why a person chooses to go anywhere if they no longer see the value in it.

It’s alright though, to each their own.
 

HansGruber

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The main purpose of any corporation is to benefit the stockholders by turning a high profit. Whether it comes from families that stay 3 days and pay a premium for a short trip, or families that stay 14 days and spend more money for longer, they're both giving the Parks profit.

I wouldn't even call it a "premium", given the cost. From a value stand-point, a 4 day pass is basically a 10-day pass.

It's like offering a BOGO but doubling the price of the product. Yes, it's smart business, but it's not a BOGO.
 

King Panda 77

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Premium Member
Too much stuff for kids ... Don't go
Tickets a rip off. Don't go
images(27).jpg
 

HansGruber

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
No. You're incorrectly classifying a segment of visitors. Most people just go because they enjoy it. Because they don’t see the sense in constantly whining about the past. Because they’re glass half full people. Because they still see value.

I’ll never understand why a person chooses to go anywhere if they no longer see the value in it.

It’s alright though, to each their own.

Proving my point so succinctly....
 

baymenxpac

Well-Known Member
so here's the thing:

i see both schools of thought. i've been going to WDW since 1987, and annually from 1993-to-2013. i've pretty much seen it all. it isn't debatable that the place just isn't the same. internal standards are lower, the corporate focus is different, and the value is worse. anyone who had been to this resort prior to the year 2000 can see that crystal clearly. that said, i get the notion that some people say, "hey, even with its shortcomings, i still enjoy it, so i'm not going to spend my time and energy complaining about it." like earlier posters have expressed, it is ultimately a value proposition. if the experience stops providing value, then you have a decision to make.

i just think it's hard to reconcile though when you see the potential of the place, and know that WDW only exists because of the incredibly high standard they set for themselves, and had no problem living up to, for the first 25 years of its existence. i mean, we're talking about costs, right? how about for DVC members, you got two FREE park passes on every stay until the year 2000. free. somehow, they still turned a profit.

i think it's also fair to criticize the business model. you keep opening up DVC resorts. you're creating more repeat customers that are paying even heftier prices that, eventually, will demand more out of the experience. maybe disney figures that once you sign up, they have your money for decades, but if the idea is to get and keep you on property, you're going to need continuous capital expenditures in the parks.

there's no easy answer, and i understand what's at the heart of the issue, because i go back and forth between the two sides internally. i'll be back soon enough when my wife and i take my son for the first time. and i do sincerely hope that it can be that annual getaway spot it was for my parents and me. we shall see.
 

draybook

Well-Known Member
If two rides only were closed, that does not count as pay more get less. Pay more get less is when you go to disney and every ride is closed.
Plus MK has no night parade. No night parade means less entertainment for the day, meaning earlier shut down time.
Also you're really not missing much by skipping figment.


Actually, that would be pay more, get nothing.
 

pax_65

Well-Known Member
so here's the thing:

i see both schools of thought. i've been going to WDW since 1987, and annually from 1993-to-2013. i've pretty much seen it all. it isn't debatable that the place just isn't the same. internal standards are lower, the corporate focus is different, and the value is worse. anyone who had been to this resort prior to the year 2000 can see that crystal clearly. that said, i get the notion that some people say, "hey, even with its shortcomings, i still enjoy it, so i'm not going to spend my time and energy complaining about it." like earlier posters have expressed, it is ultimately a value proposition. if the experience stops providing value, then you have a decision to make.

i just think it's hard to reconcile though when you see the potential of the place, and know that WDW only exists because of the incredibly high standard they set for themselves, and had no problem living up to, for the first 25 years of its existence. i mean, we're talking about costs, right? how about for DVC members, you got two FREE park passes on every stay until the year 2000. free. somehow, they still turned a profit.

i think it's also fair to criticize the business model. you keep opening up DVC resorts. you're creating more repeat customers that are paying even heftier prices that, eventually, will demand more out of the experience. maybe disney figures that once you sign up, they have your money for decades, but if the idea is to get and keep you on property, you're going to need continuous capital expenditures in the parks.

there's no easy answer, and i understand what's at the heart of the issue, because i go back and forth between the two sides internally. i'll be back soon enough when my wife and i take my son for the first time. and i do sincerely hope that it can be that annual getaway spot it was for my parents and me. we shall see.

I pretty much agree 100% (and I've been a frequent WDW visitor since 1991). I can't understand the attitude of "If you don't like it, don't complain - just don't go!" I LOVE Disney... or at least I used to. These days I still like it but it makes me sad that things have changed for the worse. I do complain to Disney, and I do point things out here because I think people should be aware that the value is declining. I do speak with my wallet too, and Disney doesn't get nearly the $$$ from me that they once did, but I still go on occasion. It's still a great place, it's still fun, I will still go (not as frequently as in the past) - but I hope things improve.

My issue with the business model is that I don't know how it's sustainable in the long-term. Disney got where they are by exceeding expectations and building loyalty. Today they just try to maximize each guest's spend. How does that build loyalty? If they replace loyal guests like me with new folks who are shocked by the ultimate cost of their vacation, will they have the same loyalty that I've had over the past 27 years? I seriously doubt it.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I understand your point, but that isn't really the definition of wearing 'rose-colored glasses'.
My use of that term refers to the segment of people who are obsessed with Disney. In their eyes, Disney can do no harm. They will visit the park on a consistent basis, regardless. Any criticism about Disney will be met with anger and passive-aggressiveness. It's like a coddling parent who never scolds their obnoxious child.

I'm not debating their desires; but at least have a little objectivity on the matter.


Regardless of what?? Not sure about others but from what I've seen the criticism isn't met with anger, it's met with basic disbelief.
I go to the parks consistently for some very basic reasons. we have a great time, we love the attractions, we love the resorts. for what I pay I think I get more than my moneys worth. Would I have gotten more in 1990? probably. Do I base my satisfaction on what I use to get? no.

Yes, I can fully believe that the parks were better in the olden days. Hey I'm sliding into my 60's so I know about the "good ole days". but here's the thing, unless someone's been able to move Newton's theory on time travel from theoretical to actual, I can't go back. Now my views on picking a vacation spot are ridiculously easy.
1) will we have a great time
2) can we afford to travel in teh manner we like.

Also peoples perspective also contributes to their satisfaction. I've got 3 kids in college who are driving me nuts, Philadelphia just reassessed our property taxes so mine are going 33% from ~5k to over 8K next year, so from my perspective I've got enough stress in my daily life, I'm not going to have it on my vacation. I'm not blowing money on a place where the only thing I think to post is complaints.
Again, that's just my outlook.

Now the reason why its so black and white is because Disney vacations are what I call "first world" problems. It won't effect my kids life, it won't effect my ability to retire, my health, my ability to afford healthcare. It's one of the few areas that is relatively stress free.

I enjoy going= I go.
I stop enjoying the trip= I stop going.
 

pax_65

Well-Known Member
you guys think we should all feel the same way about this supposed down hill slide and we simply don't.

Honestly my concern is that if people are ok with the changes that Disney have made, they will make MORE changes. I want more people to stand up and say, "This is not up to Disney standards" so that the slide doesn't continue.

If Disney can charge more and provide less... and people still continue to pack the parks in droves, praise Disney and recommend the experience to their friends, why should Disney change their strategy?
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Honestly my concern is that if people are ok with the changes that Disney have made, they will make MORE changes. I want more people to stand up and say, "This is not up to Disney standards" so that the slide doesn't continue.

If Disney can charge more and provide less... and people still continue to pack the parks in droves, praise Disney and recommend the experience to their friends, why should Disney change their strategy?

See that's a problem. I don't know what this slide is? I wasn't there in the 80's and the 90's. What is this "standard", that's one of the disconnects and a parking fee isn't enough for me to get frustrated.

I don't know about E tickets. I don't know if a ride is a "carnival" ride. Last April I stayed at kidandi village at AK:L. it was absolutely outstanding. CM's awesome, room awesome, food great.
I think the first year we went there was an afternoon parade at Epcot, I can't remember what it was called.
Let's see I do miss the spectromagic parade and I am supremely happy they got rid of the great movie ride.

So what am I standing up and saying? Serious question.

Op mentioned a street performer I think that is no longer there. When i went in April there were tons of live acts in Epcot.
Tell me what I'm supposed to be unhappy with and i will 100% stand up and speak up.
 
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Oddysey

Well-Known Member
It will stop once prices have hit a point that customers err um guest will no longer pay. Unfortunately for us the consumer, it does not appear this has occurred yet. Nevertheless, it is evident that Disney is actively trying to find the equilibrium point. Hopefully they find it soon, and we start to see more value return to the consumer.

If two rides only were closed, that does not count as pay more get less. Pay more get less is when you go to disney and every ride is closed.
Plus MK has no night parade. No night parade means less entertainment for the day, meaning earlier shut down time.
Also you're really not missing much by skipping figment.

Are you trying to debate just for the sake of it? This makes no sense.
 

aw14

Well-Known Member
Regardless of what?? Not sure about others but from what I've seen the criticism isn't met with anger, it's met with basic disbelief.
I go to the parks consistently for some very basic reasons. we have a great time, we love the attractions, we love the resorts. for what I pay I think I get more than my moneys worth. Would I have gotten more in 1990? probably. Do I base my satisfaction on what I use to get? no.

Yes, I can fully believe that the parks were better in the olden days. Hey I'm sliding into my 60's so I know about the "good ole days". but here's the thing, unless someone's been able to move Newton's theory on time travel from theoretical to actual, I can't go back. Now my views on picking a vacation spot are ridiculously easy.
1) will we have a great time
2) can we afford to travel in teh manner we like.

Also peoples perspective also contributes to their satisfaction. I've got 3 kids in college who are driving me nuts, Philadelphia just reassessed our property taxes so mine are going 33% from ~5k to over 8K next year, so from my perspective I've got enough stress in my daily life, I'm not going to have it on my vacation. I'm not blowing money on a place where the only thing I think to post is complaints.
Again, that's just my outlook.

Now the reason why its so black and white is because Disney vacations are what I call "first world" problems. It won't effect my kids life, it won't effect my ability to retire, my health, my ability to afford healthcare. It's one of the few areas that is relatively stress free.

I enjoy going= I go.
I stop enjoying the trip= I stop going.
100% agree. We are a family of 3, we love going, we talk about going all the time. The moment it is no longer fun= the moment we will no longer go. Very simple
 

HansGruber

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I enjoy going= I go.
I stop enjoying the trip= I stop going.

You're on a Disney forum, which means you have some affinity for the place, as most of us clearly do.
To get me to believe you will simply "stop going" without taking ANY preceding action, just doesn't make sense.
As some others have posted, some posters are:
  • Spending less on vacation
  • Staying offsite
  • Delaying their vacation
  • Skipping their vacation
  • Complaining to Disney
To someone who has some level of affinity for Disney, all of this makes sense long before one simply stops vacationing there.
 

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