Park security checks

[MKCustodial]

If I were a bag checker, I would indeed participate in profiling - whether it's PC or not, it happens....and I'm sure after 911 we ALL have caught ourselves doing it at least once.

Not all of us, I can guarantee you that.

If I'm checking bags and I see mom and dad and bobby and susie with mickey ears on - yeah, I'm just gonna give their bag a quick scan for beer or the forbidden outside food. However, if I see a Muslim-looking gentleman, perhaps with a turban and/or Muslim garb on...and he's alone or with another male of similar appearance, I'm probably going to disect their bag - I'll admit it. Call me racist, call me cautious, call me whatever you want.....and I'm not alone. If the checks are indeed necessary, then I hope (and presume that) they are profiling in some way - even if they're just looking for some roudy teens or suspicious loners.

And yet, little Bobby may be there to pull another high school stunt on a more public area, just like he've been saying for months on the Internet, and he figures no rent-a-cop will be checking his Pooh backpack because he remembered to wear Mickey ears and a bg smile.

See how faulty one's actions can be? Some people go for the racial paranoia thing and forget that stuff has already been happening for some time in their own backyard.

 

[peter11435]

Not all of us, I can guarantee you that.



And yet, little Bobby may be there to pull another high school stunt on a more public area, just like he've been saying for months on the Internet, and he figures no rent-a-cop will be checking his Pooh backpack because he remembered to wear Mickey ears and a bg smile.

See how faulty one's actions can be? Some people go for the racial paranoia thing and forget that stuff has already been happening for some time in their own backyard.

I just want to point out that profiling does not have to include race. Searching someone simply because they are of a certain race or color is wrong. However the guards are on the look out for certain things. They are not going to pay to much attention to an elderly couple entering the park. At the same time if they see a guy entering alone wearing a heavy coat and caring a bag in the middle of summer, he is going to catch their attention. This is profiling but it also simply good police work.

 

[MKCustodial]

I just want to point out that profiling does not have to include race. Searching someone simply because they are of a certain race of color is wrong. However the guards are on the look out for certain things. They are not going to pay to much attention to an elderly couple entering the park. At the same time if they see a guy entering alone wearing a heavy coat and caring a bag in the middle of summer, he is going to catch their attention. This is profiling but it also simply good police work.

Granted. But the post I quoted from Edwardtc was pretty scpecific on what he meant by profiling, so I just gave my point of view on the matter.

 

[brich]

Not all of us, I can guarantee you that.

And were you even in this country on 9/11? If not, I'm not sure your guarantee holds up.
9/11 was a life changing event for a lot of American citizens. Right or wrong, it changed the way many feel about race and religion.

One bad apple does not make all apples bad, but it will make you suspicious of apples. If your allergic to peanuts, would you be apprehensive of eating a walnut? If a young man wearing a black hat kept getting caught breaking into your house, how would you feel if you saw a young man wearing a black hat walking around out in front of your house? So I don't condemn someone who profiles, even racially. I do condemn those who go beyond the limits of simply suspecting.

Many topics here get displayed as black and white and yet there is as much grey area in the middle than the extremes that we choose to overlook. Profiling is many things. Racial profiling is many things, both good and bad. We are all the first to boast and take pride in our differences and yet we all want to be equal. And as an American, I have a right to my freedom to make my own judgements. Who I allow in my house and who I choose to break bread with as well as how I determine that.

You know...I feel a lot better now.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

To respond to the original question...

Last week at Animal Kingdom we accidentally brought a glass iced tea bottle and they told us we needed to put it in a locker, throw it away, or drink it before we go through the checkpoint.

 

[MKCustodial]

And were you even in this country on 9/11? If not, I'm not sure your guarantee holds up.
9/11 was a life changing event for a lot of American citizens. Right or wrong, it changed the way many feel about race and religion.

As I've mentioned before in this very topic, I understand why you all as a country have to feel like this, and I also mentioned I thought it was very said that a country with such a history of liberty and tollerance had to come to this point. Still, it's widely known that in many countries that had nothing to do with 9/11, people have been following that same course of action. I didn't know if Edwardtc said "all" as in "all Americans" or "all" as in "all people", and that's why I gave my opinion. If that was indeed something directed or refering to Americans only, than I have no place in giving my opinion, since I'm not an American (I am by continent, but not by country :lol: ), and I apologize for getting involved.

 

[wannab@dis]

You know...I feel a lot better now.

There's a lot of people that agree with you. I tend to hit somewhere in the middle of the road. I want law enforcement to use every effort to keep us safe, but I don't want them to overstep someone's rights. Now, utilizing racial *AND* behavior profiling together should help alleviate those issues.

 

[bgraham34]

I am not a fan of bag check for finding Terrorist items. Meaning bombs. Many times its just a band aid or to make the average person feel more comfortable. I personally dont need bag checks to make me feel safe. I flew a week after Sept 11th and was not nervous.

If someone wants to get a bomb in the park they will get it in. It may just take them a little bit longer.

 

[weluvtink]

I don't mind the bag check. If people want the line to move faster, don't bring everything you own to the park and don't have your entire party get in line with you. We always travel with kids, so one of us will take the one backpack we bring and camera bag through security and the rest will go through the no bag entrance.
There things that are missed. Once at AK, the foot rest on our umbrella stroller broke. A guy standing in front of us in line asked if I wanted him to take care of it. I thought he would just pull it of the rest of the way. He looked stong enough to do it, so I said "sure". He then pulls out this huge pocketknife and cuts the rest of the strap off.

 

[peter11435]

To respond to the original question...

Last week at Animal Kingdom we accidentally brought a glass iced tea bottle and they told us we needed to put it in a locker, throw it away, or drink it before we go through the checkpoint.

That was not because you were bringing in food/drinks but rather only because it was glass.

 

[Firewolfe51]

They barely even looked into my backpack; anytime I have been. Open it up, and look down inside. No problem. Takes up time, kind of bothersome...but I know they have to do it. Look out @ the Space Center though..went once and had to empty the entire contents of my pack out, open up our cell phone and punch numbers, empty our wallets out....you catch my drift. I felt like I was a criminal and was being violated. I guess they have to do it too, but it was way harsh. :lol:

 

[Tom]

As I've mentioned before in this very topic, I understand why you all as a country have to feel like this, and I also mentioned I thought it was very said that a country with such a history of liberty and tollerance had to come to this point. Still, it's widely known that in many countries that had nothing to do with 9/11, people have been following that same course of action. I didn't know if Edwardtc said "all" as in "all Americans" or "all" as in "all people", and that's why I gave my opinion. If that was indeed something directed or refering to Americans only, than I have no place in giving my opinion, since I'm not an American (I am by continent, but not by country :lol: ), and I apologize for getting involved.

Ok, it was late, and I started to forget what I had already typed by the end - and I apologize I should have been more clear - yes, I meant those of us from the United States of America have probably caught ourselves participating in racial profiling - even if subconsciously. And no, I'm not at all racist. I even had friends in college who were from Iran, Pakistan and India. And I guess I should have reiterated from my earlier post that I am not FOR racial profiling - but for profiling in general. And yes, I understand that the rent-a-cops aren't profilers, but the other security members are.

It is important to profile - by using ALL categories, including race, age, gender, and mostly, behavior. Sure, little "Bobby" may indeed be planning some devious stunt, while on vacation with his parents and sister, but that type of stuff can't really be detected unless they're displaying the behavior of someone planning such feat. The little Bobby in my example was meant to be a pre-teen, like around 8 or something - not a teen. However, if I'm profiling and I see a family come through, and one of the kids seems out of place or distracted or nervous....I may suspect something. At the same time, if I see someone of another race who doesn't display any behaviors of someone causing trouble, I wouldn't even begin to suspect them.

 

[AEfx]

I can understand that the security checks don't make you feel any safer.
I'm sure all the Rambo's out there know all the ins and outs of terrorists thoughts and activitys.

The Security check isn't meant for you..it's meant for people like my Dear Grandmother, who lives in New York City, who used to Love to come to Disney World but is almost afraid to leave her house since 9/11.

Just chill out and let them security guards do their thing.
If it gets my Granny out of the house and makes her feel safer, then it's a good thing.

LOL, I'm plenty "chilled out". I smile and say hello to the security guards as they do their thing. Even the grumpy ones, who I always make sure I wish a Magical Day.

With all due respect to your grandmother, the average person is no longer "traumatized" by the events you referenced. Small children at WDW were babies at the time - and I hate the fact that they have to go to the Magic Kingdom and see a security check that is nothing more than a big show.

It just adds to this culture of "terror, terror, fear, fear!" that so many people are holding on to. If the security check was actually useful - for anything than weeding out the occasional idiot that doesn't know to hide his beer under his shirt instead of in a backpack - I'd be all for it. But it doesn't.

I'm of no illusions that it's going to go away any time soon, but I certainly can say I think WDW would be a happier place without it.

AEfx

 

[Tom]

LOL, I'm plenty "chilled out". I smile and say hello to the security guards as they do their thing. Even the grumpy ones, who I always make sure I wish a Magical Day.

With all due respect to your grandmother, the average person is no longer "traumatized" by the events you referenced. Small children at WDW were babies at the time - and I hate the fact that they have to go to the Magic Kingdom and see a security check that is nothing more than a big show.

It just adds to this culture of "terror, terror, fear, fear!" that so many people are holding on to. If the security check was actually useful - for anything than weeding out the occasional idiot that doesn't know to hide his beer under his shirt instead of in a backpack - I'd be all for it. But it doesn't.

I'm of no illusions that it's going to go away any time soon, but I certainly can say I think WDW would be a happier place without it.

AEfx

I wish I could post my thoughts as concisely as you, and others....I'm just too dang wordy! :lol:

I agree that security is important, but again, something like the undetectable X-Ray machines and face scanners would be so much better because they do a far superior job, and don't encourage the paranoia that so many people are still succumbing to.

 

[Scooter]

LOL, I'm plenty "chilled out". I smile and say hello to the security guards as they do their thing. Even the grumpy ones, who I always make sure I wish a Magical Day.

With all due respect to your grandmother, the average person is no longer "traumatized" by the events you referenced. Small children at WDW were babies at the time - and I hate the fact that they have to go to the Magic Kingdom and see a security check that is nothing more than a big show.

It just adds to this culture of "terror, terror, fear, fear!" that so many people are holding on to. If the security check was actually useful - for anything than weeding out the occasional idiot that doesn't know to hide his beer under his shirt instead of in a backpack - I'd be all for it. But it doesn't.

I'm of no illusions that it's going to go away any time soon, but I certainly can say I think WDW would be a happier place without it.

AEfx

I don't think it bothers the small children as much as it bothers you.
To them it's just a part of getting in.
To you...wellI guess it's cutting into your Turkey Leg buying time..lol

Again...it makes some people feel more secure...and it's not that inconvienient...and the security people are fun and polite...so where is the problem?

 

[MKCustodial]

I agree that security is important, but again, something like the undetectable X-Ray machines and face scanners would be so much better because they do a far superior job, and don't encourage the paranoia that so many people are still succumbing to.

Totally agree! :sohappy:

 

[AEfx]

I don't think it bothers the small children as much as it bothers you.
To them it's just a part of getting in.

Ah, unintentionally you hit the nail right on the head. This is exactly what I am talking about. These kids are being raised in this culture of fear that certain groups wish you to believe.

It's terribly sad to me that "to them it's just a part of getting in". To kids who grow up with anything culturally abnormal it's the same thing - but just because they aren't able to quantify it at the time doesn't mean it isn't harmful.

To you...wellI guess it's cutting into your Turkey Leg buying time..lol

Um...yeah. Never had a turkey leg before, but that's totally beside the point. If you think it's simply about the extra time, you aren't seeing the big picture here.

Again...it makes some people feel more secure...and it's not that inconvienient...and the security people are fun and polite...so where is the problem?

At this point, I don't believe that many people are fooled by it into thinking it actually makes you feel more secure. I think as time goes on more people see it as a reminder of something they'd rather not think about while at the World. Anyone who is traumatized by the events of five years ago isn't going to be helped by a play-acting bag check - they need professional help.

The security guards have no set routine, each one does it differently. Some wave you through with a glance, some actually look inside but don't touch anything, and others will move stuff around. There is no standard system in place - or if there is, it's not enforced. It's all for show. I'm glad you've only run into 'fun and polite' bag checkers, you are lucky. Some of them are very nice, and some of them are downright rude - I usually assume it's because they know they aren't doing anything effective.

The problem is that it does nothing, and only serves to reenforce the "terror, terror, fear, fear" brigade. It's a cultural problem that seems to be beyond your understanding. Right after the events of five years ago it was necessary to make people feel better, but at this point most people could care less - we are a country at war and the majority of Americans seem to forget that on a daily basis, while we are too busy talking about girls who get drunk and go off with guys from bars and if Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are REALLY together or not...most people don't need that false assurance any more, and those that do need help beyond the scope of entering a themepark. It has served its purpose, and I think they'd be better off without it. The people that don't care about "terror, terror" just don't want to spend the extra time and annoyance, and the thinking folks who come to WDW to get away from the realities of the world just get the magic stepped on. At a certain point, there are going to be more people who wish it gone than those who don't know any better and feel false security over it.

Again, however, I don't expect it to go away any time soon. You seem to enjoy it, and that is your right. I think it's a waste of time and I ignore it as much as possible - although seeing uniformed guards, even if they are just rent-a-cops without weapons, at the entrance to the most Magical Place on Earth doesn't make me feel secure, it makes me sad.

Because of this I try not to carry bags any more than possible (cargo shorts are your friend), but I'm not going to pretend that it does anything useful. I can fit just as much into my cargo shorts as I can a backpack (though I prefer a backback because it can be put down) - and if I know that, anyone who really does wish to do harm at WDW certainly does as well.

AEfx

 

[Scooter]

Ah, unintentionally you hit the nail right on the head. This is exactly what I am talking about. These kids are being raised in this culture of fear that certain groups wish you to believe.

It's terribly sad to me that "to them it's just a part of getting in". To kids who grow up with anything culturally abnormal it's the same thing - but just because they aren't able to quantify it at the time doesn't mean it isn't harmful.

Culture of fear? LOL
Yea...it's pretty fearful to watch those Disney Security guards joke and laugh and hand out Mickey Stickers to those children. :lol:

They're no differant to a child than a crossing guard is.

I didn't see any tramatized children when I was getting through the gates...
..but perhaps you are right... maybe I was standing in the wrong line and just missed it.

Yanno what?..I just thought of something. I bet thats where all those children in It's a Small World come from...I bet they're all children..frozen with fear....all victims of the horrific searches done by those intimidating Disney Security guards.

 

[Tom]

At this point, I don't believe that many people are fooled by it into thinking it actually makes you feel more secure. I think as time goes on more people see it as a reminder of something they'd rather not think about while at the World. Anyone who is traumatized by the events of five years ago isn't going to be helped by a play-acting bag check - they need professional help.

The security guards have no set routine, each one does it differently. Some wave you through with a glance, some actually look inside but don't touch anything, and others will move stuff around. There is no standard system in place - or if there is, it's not enforced. It's all for show. I'm glad you've only run into 'fun and polite' bag checkers, you are lucky. Some of them are very nice, and some of them are downright rude - I usually assume it's because they know they aren't doing anything effective.

The problem is that it does nothing, and only serves to reenforce the "terror, terror, fear, fear" brigade. It's a cultural problem that seems to be beyond your understanding. Right after the events of five years ago it was necessary to make people feel better, but at this point most people could care less - we are a country at war and the majority of Americans seem to forget that on a daily basis, while we are too busy talking about girls who get drunk and go off with guys from bars and if Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are REALLY together or not...most people don't need that false assurance any more, and those that do need help beyond the scope of entering a themepark. It has served its purpose, and I think they'd be better off without it. The people that don't care about "terror, terror" just don't want to spend the extra time and annoyance, and the thinking folks who come to WDW to get away from the realities of the world just get the magic stepped on. At a certain point, there are going to be more people who wish it gone than those who don't know any better and feel false security over it.

Again, however, I don't expect it to go away any time soon. You seem to enjoy it, and that is your right. I think it's a waste of time and I ignore it as much as possible - although seeing uniformed guards, even if they are just rent-a-cops without weapons, at the entrance to the most Magical Place on Earth doesn't make me feel secure, it makes me sad.

Because of this I try not to carry bags any more than possible (cargo shorts are your friend), but I'm not going to pretend that it does anything useful. I can fit just as much into my cargo shorts as I can a backpack (though I prefer a backback because it can be put down) - and if I know that, anyone who really does wish to do harm at WDW certainly does as well.

AEfx

AEfx, you amaze me again . To emphasize your well explained point, yes, it is sad to think that someone can be appeased by seeing a 60-yr-old guy in a blue costume randomly looking in backpacks and packs, and think that because they're there, WDW is immune to terrorism as well as bullies. I would be WAY more at ease if I knew they had implemented hidden face scanners and x-rays. Not to mention the Bag Check Canopies have ruined any Kodak Moments of the MK entrance from the boat dock area :lol:

You are SO right in saying that these types of "security measures" just give many people MORE reason to be obcessed with the terror and fear ideas. It's just like the stupid color-code system the feds invented (Saturday Night Live's skit hit the nail on the head there, with the white, offwhite, eggshell, beije, etc, etc). We have exactly the same odds/percentage/chance of being attacked anywhere, by any means, no matter what color the feds are broadcasting. It's just one more thing to get people paranoid about something they have NO control over. It would be like me going into a hospital ICU wing and setting up a table at the entrance with a big colorful meter, and showing new arrivals and their families what their chances of coming out of ICU alive were, at any given moment on any given day. By sitting there, people coming in have less and less hope of surviving just because they're being reminded, in their face, that they MIGHT die.

Yeah, kind of an off-the-wall analogy, but it's all I could think of at Midnight-Thirty again :lol: I stand by my idea of perfecting the x-rays, doing face scanning, and profiling - all "behind the scenes".

 

[AEfx]

Culture of fear? LOL
Yea...it's pretty fearful to watch those Disney Security guards joke and laugh and hand out Mickey Stickers to those children. :lol:

Unfortunately, you just don't get it. And that's okay. Not everyone has to understand everything, I guess. It's an issue much greater than the bag checks at WDW, or the time it takes to go through it.

I guess this is one of those things where you can see the big picture, or you can't.

AEfx