Park Closures, Any Closer?

[gettingsmaller]

I would think that park closures would cut into "Park Hopper" sales (one less park to hop to/from), and park hoppers have to be one of the biggest "pure profit" products WDW has...

 

[Lucky]

I would think that park closures would cut into "Park Hopper" sales (one less park to hop to/from), and park hoppers have to be one of the biggest "pure profit" products WDW has...

Exactly right.

 

[PhotoDave219]

["Consumer confidence is the lowest we've seen in over three decades, and even the best product out there is feeling the effect," Disney Chief Executive Robert Iger told analysts on a conference call...On the call, Iger said senior executives were looking at ways to cut costs companywide. "Significant savings will be delivered," he said.]

That doesn't mean ____*# when it comes to the theme parks. The theme parks have been what has kept the company afloat when WDP was making some of the most awful detritus in Hollywood. (Go read DisneyWar)

The parks are the company's cash cow, you don't reduce the amount of income from them merely because they aren't making as much money. That kinda thinking is corporate suicide.

As long as they continue to turn a profit, there's no reason to make any drastic changes. At worst, you'll see a post-9/11 style park hours reduction with a continued migration to a CP/PT laden cast.

But with the price of gas coming down, people will be able to return quicker because the economy will rebound faster.

 

[MousDad]

That doesn't mean ____*# when it comes to the theme parks

Possibly. Unless the phrase "even the best brand" has 2 or 3 possible interpretations (not unusual in CEO-speak).

At worst, you'll see a post-9/11 style park hours reduction with a continued migration to a CP/PT laden cast

That actually was step 2 in Kevin's article, and you're right has not happened yet. Step 1 has, though (expansion of free dining).

because the economy will rebound faster.

I truly hope you're right about that one.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Don't forget that Disneyland itself closed under Walt's direction on Mondays and Tuesdays during the off-season to save operating costs and do refurbishments.

The vast majority of Disneyland guests are locals whereas the opposite is true for Walt Disney World - people travel great distances at great expense of both time and money to have a WDW vacation experience.

You can't compare these two situations for many reasons.

 

[kcw]

They allow overtime?

In my dept they give overtime out like candy- especially during peak periods. During Christmas, 7 days a week, 50, 60 even 70 hours is not uncommon. For some reason it seems like they'd rather just keep paying people overtime, doubletime, and turnaround rather than bring new people in.... :shrug:

Although, as of late, extra hours have been harder to come by

 

[PhilharMagician]

We were at MK on the first and second anniv after 9-11. MK would close at 5 or 6pm every night except for one or two to show Fantasy in the Sky at 7pm and then close right after. Spectromagic was not even shown on our entire 1 week stay. That is also when extra magic hours were cut. World Showcase starting opening at 11am, and Future World really did close at 7pm. POFQ was shut down. Carousel of Progress was not opened the entire trip, nor time keeper. Alot of attractions also had really shortened operating hours similar to Hall of Presidents and the tiki birds.

Needless to say the parks were dead so you did not need the extra hours. We did the entire Magic Kingdom one day in 4 hours. No joke. Every ride except Dumbo and Magic Carpets. No Lines at all.

Exactly. Why would we see them now close parks instead of making cuts in other places first.

Just to add to your list.

• RC closed
• POP was delayed
• Treehouses closed
• WOL became seasonal and slowly closed more and more days

and there is probably more that I can't think of right now.

 

[EpcotServo]

Last I checked, they moved the WDW Doomsday Clock to Five Minutes Until Midnight.

 

[slappy magoo]

Closing a resort might be a good idea but how would that affect people already booked there?

Well, unless work needed to be done on a certain resort, they'd probably first close a value or moderate before a deluxe. Anyone who was booked at that resort would get a call from WDW explaining their resort will now be closed during their vacation time. WDW will probably do one of two things:

1: Offer to move them into a comparable resort. If they were closing, for example, All-Star Sports, they'd move anyone booked there into the other All-Stars or Pop.

2: Offer to move them into a better resort for no cost. They'd probably start with OKW and SSR, because not only do they tend to fill up last, but they hope that for people who are "moved up" into them, it'll mean giving them a taste of DVC living that may make them want to join. If people balk, then they'll start offering other, better resorts, maybe at no additional charge, maybe they'll try to milk out a few more dollars, especially if they offered OKW or SSR first.

Now, if they wind up closing a Deluxe resort, then they'd probably have to offer much nicer accommodations right away. About a year ago, when they were building the Villas at the Animal Kingdom, the construction noise wound up being louder than they had anticipated, and many people got moved into monorail resorts, usually (I think) the Poly.

 

[DisneyJoe]

They can also partially close a resort - I was at All-Star Music at the end of September 2001. A CM told me they were at 100% capacity, which I found hard to believe. Well, it turns out that they only had 5 of the 10 buildings open - and all 5 were full - thus 100% capacity!

 

[slappy magoo]

It's still a ridiculous idea. Rolling closures will never happen. It's pure economics. Yee's assumptions are all based solely from Disney's point of view. I'm sure Disney may want rolling park closures but it would never work. Attendance which is already stagnated would absolutely fall off the map should they ever implement this. Reason in simple, people have no 0 interest in paying more but getting less for their travel dollars, travelers, like Disney want more for their money, not less.

So in the end, I think there are very few people willing to pay Disney top dollar for a vacation, and then only get a weak 2/3 experience. People could care less that Disney wants to do this to save a buck, because in the end the travelers want to save a buck as well, and we all know who'll win that battle. Rolling closures won't happen, period!

You seem to be operating under the assumption that one park would potentially be closed for someone's entire vacation. I don't think they'd do that. What would probably happen is they'd close one park Monday, a different park Tuesday and so on. A park hopper would be getting fewer options each day, but throughout the course of an average-length trip, all the options will become available to you. Sure, someone may say "I must absolutely positively go to Animal Kingdom Lodge on Tuesday afternoon, AFTER Epcot in the morning BUT IT'S CLOSED! My life is over!" But more than likely, people will go, "OK, we'll do Epcot all day on Tuesday, maybe hit MK or DQ in the afternoon, and then Animal Kingdom on Wednesday, no big whoop." It's like when you travel during the off season and one water park or the other is closed. Some people might opt to getting the water park option, others say "Well, heck, I was probably only going to hit one water park anyway." And if they offered some sort of premium for any perceived inconvenience - whether it would be meal vouchers or a free tote bag or bonus Fastpasses, something that has a perceived value to the customer but costs WDW next to nothing, I think there'd be fewer complaints still.


Now, if they closed one park entirely for a whole week or month or two months, you may have more of a reason to complain. Or if someone was only going to be in town for one day, and the one park they wanted to hit was closed. But if ticking off a small handful of customers during bleak economic times means saving tens of thousands of dollars (and again, those complainers could possibly be handled with a free ticket to one of the other 3 open parks, or even just a discount or meal voucher or some other smaller gesture), they'd certainly have to consider it.

IF things get that bleak. Which I don't necessarily think they will. Just cyber-thinking-out-loud.

 

[DisneyJoe]

What would probably happen is they'd close one park Monday, a different park Tuesday and so on. A park hopper would be getting fewer options each day, but throughout the course of an average-length trip, all the options will become available to you. Sure, someone may say "I must absolutely positively go to Animal Kingdom Lodge on Tuesday afternoon, AFTER Epcot in the morning BUT IT'S CLOSED! My life is over!" But more than likely, people will go, "OK, we'll do Epcot all day on Tuesday, maybe hit MK or DQ in the afternoon, and then Animal Kingdom on Wednesday, no big whoop."

If the average Disney vacation was 5-7 days I would agree with you, but I believe the average Disney vacation is 3-4 days (and I think most people on those vacations don't get park hoppers), so if 1 park were closed per day, I think you would have more complaints than you think.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

If the average Disney vacation was 5-7 days I would agree with you, but I believe the average Disney vacation is 3-4 days (and I think most people on those vacations don't get park hoppers), so if 1 park were closed per day, I think you would have more complaints than you think.

I think if people knew ahead of time what parks would be closed when, they would make the necessary changes to their plans. Also, I'm sure that if (and keyword here is "if") Disney was to implement a system where one park would be closed per day, they would reflect that in their packages and pricing. :shrug:

However, I don't think this whole scenario is something that we'll have to worry about. I really don't see Disney doing something like this. Perhaps shortened park hours, but I doubt that the parks will be closing.

 

[WDW1974]

That doesn't mean ____*# when it comes to the theme parks. The theme parks have been what has kept the company afloat when WDP was making some of the most awful detritus in Hollywood. (Go read DisneyWar)

The parks are the company's cash cow, you don't reduce the amount of income from them merely because they aren't making as much money. That kinda thinking is corporate suicide.

As long as they continue to turn a profit, there's no reason to make any drastic changes. At worst, you'll see a post-9/11 style park hours reduction with a continued migration to a CP/PT laden cast.

But with the price of gas coming down, people will be able to return quicker because the economy will rebound faster.

That's a very simplistic 'tude.

When times aren't well the parks go from cash cow to dead albatross around the neck because, at least in Florida, there are 30,000 rooms that need to be filled nightly.

And while I don't, yet, see Disney needing to close parks on a rolling basis, I also don't see that as a terrible thing.

They have four gates. To close even two (Studios and DAK) a day a week would save Disney millions. It also might prevent them from digging into bone with the next round of cuts.

As someone here mentioned, DL used to close on Mondays and Tuesdays in the offseason until the late 1980s (Walt even had a gentleman's agreement with Walter Knott and Knott's Berry Farm would close on Wednesdays and Thursdays in the offseason so that either place was open every day).

It just don't buy that people would stop coming if the Studios closed every Tuesday.

Now, I also don't have an issue with mothballing a resort or two (for instance Coronado Springs is about to undergo its first top to bottom rehab since opening in 1997, so if you have to close it, you do ... or just take one huge section and close it ... Disney has done so quietly at its resorts for years in slow periods).

There are plenty of ways you can reduce expenses.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Its very funny to read this "dead albatross" post, since, as a travel agent, I can tell on an almost daily basis, how full certain resorts are (or all resorts) for certain date ranges.

With this new buy 4 get 3 promotion, there are some date ranges where there are literally NO rooms left on property at all - NONE. I even check without the promotion - no rooms.

Other date ranges show all value resorts completely full with other resorts available...Of course, other date ranges have much greater availability.

I see rooms disappear overnight - and resorts completely sold out.

I don't see this Kevin Yee scenario happening, at least not between now and July 4.

 

[DisneyExplorer]

Actually, after thinking about it, I experienced this once. In 2003 we booked our honeymoon at a mod. About two weeks later we got a call from Disney saying that they were closing that resort for upgrades during our stay. They offered us the GF at a deep discount. We took it.

My family had the same issue in November 2002. We were set to stay at the Shades of Green but were complimentary moved to the Contemporary Resort instead. Was it a sudden refurbishment or poor planning?

 

[yankspy]

My family had the same issue in November 2002. We were set to stay at the Shades of Green but were complimentary moved to the Contemporary Resort instead. Was it a sudden refurbishment or poor planning?

I am not sure. It was odd though that they did not seem to plan for it. I was happy because we got to stay at the GF instead.

 

[bluejayx]

It's like when you travel during the off season and one water park or the other is closed. Some people might opt to getting the water park option, others say "Well, heck, I was probably only going to hit one water park anyway."

You don't Know how may people planed there hole seven day trip around BB this fall .

 

[WDW1974]

Its very funny to read this "dead albatross" post, since, as a travel agent, I can tell on an almost daily basis, how full certain resorts are (or all resorts) for certain date ranges.

With this new buy 4 get 3 promotion, there are some date ranges where there are literally NO rooms left on property at all - NONE. I even check without the promotion - no rooms.

Other date ranges show all value resorts completely full with other resorts available...Of course, other date ranges have much greater availability.

I see rooms disappear overnight - and resorts completely sold out.

I don't see this Kevin Yee scenario happening, at least not between now and July 4.

Well as a travel agent you should know two very important points:

1.) The goal of this offer is to stimulate travel and fill rooms (so hopefully it is doing that) and;
2.) What truly is available and what shows up on any computers both externally to TAs and internally at the WDTC all depends on a couple of keystrokes by management.

Disney is NEVER 100% sold out (even during the actual Millennium week... I booked supposedly two of the last 12 rooms on property back in 1994 but when the time came so many new rooms had opened and so many others had opted not to come that rooms sat unused).

As someone pointed out above if Disney only gives people access to say 750 rooms at the All Star Sports, and they all sell out, it may appear that the resort is 100% sold out. It isn't.

I am sure Disney is watching very closely what resorts are booking and when and for how long with this offer and they'll open up more blocks of rooms if/when they see fit.

This is always how Disney has operated.

 

[WDW1974]

My family had the same issue in November 2002. We were set to stay at the Shades of Green but were complimentary moved to the Contemporary Resort instead. Was it a sudden refurbishment or poor planning?

Usually, it is something you often see with airlines -- overbooking.

A few falls ago (I want to say 2006) many folks took advantage of Disney's free dining offer and the values were all booked ... overbooked because they moved a few large groups into POP ... the result was a few hundred lucky guests went from a standard room at POP to a studio at Saratoga Springs.

A few folks who bitched a bit louder at the move, got one bedrooms at Saratoga or Old Key West and at least one family got upgraded to Beach Club ... at a small upsell charge.

So, this isn't all that unusual.