News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

[winstongator]

Hurricanes depressing attendance... or **helping** attendance??!!!

Before Hurricane Florence strikes, evacuees flee to Disney: 'We're leaving for fun.'

We evacuated there for Matthew (from Jax Beach) Had a great trip.

 

[Kman101]

So even Universal is blaming Disney for some of THEIR softness? Maybe Universal should invest money in Disney to build new attractions so more people will come, helping their bottom line as well. /s

And let's not forget Universal hasn't exactly given guests a reason to visit. Fast and Furious? Who's booking a trip for that? Volcano Bay is popular but it was never going to not be a popular destination. I can see why Universal is a tad healthier but I think they rested a little bit for a while, personally. Yeah, like Disney, they have things planned, things are under construction, but what really pushed guests to want to spend money at the parks this year? TSL and Fast and Furious aren't going to cut it. Many guests are seeing through the festivals now. I see a slow trend towards guests finally having had enough. But I don't think the absolute masses have reached that point like some keep hoping.

This is for everyone, and not a snarky question, but an honest one. What would be a fair price, in everyone's own opinion, for a day at the parks? We all throw out "it's too much", but really, what would we all actually pay? We all know we view value in something differently but just thought it was an interesting question to pose. By asking, it's not saying I agree with their pricing. I don't. But it's not *as* outrageous as it's made out to be, at least for a day's admission to the park (though it still feels too high due to lack of investment; if the parks were where they should be, the price, IMO, while high, would be more reasonable). IMO. Where they lose me is the pricing for food, charging over $20 to park a car, etc. decreasing the experience but continuing to charge for a "premium" experience, etc.

 

[monykalyn]

This is for everyone, and not a snarky question, but an honest one. What would be a fair price, in everyone's own opinion, for a day at the parks? We all throw out "it's too much", but really, what would we all actually pay? We all know we view value in something differently but just thought it was an interesting question to pose. By asking, it's not saying I agree with their pricing. I don't. But it's not *as* outrageous as it's made out to be, at least for a day's admission to the park (though it still feels too high due to lack of investment; if the parks were where they should be, the price, IMO, while high, would be more reasonable). IMO. Where they lose me is the pricing for food, charging over $20 to park a car, etc. decreasing the experience but continuing to charge for a "premium" experience, etc.

Well we came off a year where we had a CM in family for 8 of past 12 months -say what you will about the DCP kids-they get some great discounts. 4 AP were well worth the price for as many days as we did (and I had about 10 days more than rest of family for about 45 park days). We did go much more this past year than past 10 years previously combined. I wondered if stuff was slower-CM's were offered some great discounts ($69 Wild africa trek? best tour ever!!), plus their blackout for self admit was lifted weeks early this summer, including water park admission, and they got free extra tickets to DHS for month of June.
To answer your question-I felt our "ticket" price was reasonable for the use we got out of them. But it is different with multiple trips and and AP-we never felt we had to "do everything" so we really enjoyed going to parks for few hours, break, maybe go back for a ride or two or show. I am hording the last couple days of my NE tickets from years ago as I think the one day prices now are getting a bit much.

We are done with Disney for awhile now-AP year is over. And the AP discounts are OK but Universal's are better. Have the Premier pass to Universal now and it is nice to get a 15% discount off nearly everything! Heading to HHN for first time next week! Nice with with this level pass is we can use our timeshare and stay offsite for super cheap or use an accommodation certificate for cheap and we still have the after 4 EP. We hadn't been back to Universal in 3 years until this past summer. Will probably combine a beach trip/few days at Universal trip for next summer vacation.

 

[winstongator]

And let's not forget Universal hasn't exactly given guests a reason to visit. Fast and Furious? Who's booking a trip for that? Volcano Bay is popular but it was never going to not be a popular destination. I can see why Universal is a tad healthier but I think they rested a little bit for a while, personally. Yeah, like Disney, they have things planned, things are under construction, but what really pushed guests to want to spend money at the parks this year? TSL and Fast and Furious aren't going to cut it. Many guests are seeing through the festivals now. I see a slow trend towards guests finally having had enough. But I don't think the absolute masses have reached that point like some keep hoping.

This is for everyone, and not a snarky question, but an honest one. What would be a fair price, in everyone's own opinion, for a day at the parks? We all throw out "it's too much", but really, what would we all actually pay? We all know we view value in something differently but just thought it was an interesting question to pose. By asking, it's not saying I agree with their pricing. I don't. But it's not *as* outrageous as it's made out to be, at least for a day's admission to the park (though it still feels too high due to lack of investment; if the parks were where they should be, the price, IMO, while high, would be more reasonable). IMO. Where they lose me is the pricing for food, charging over $20 to park a car, etc. decreasing the experience but continuing to charge for a "premium" experience, etc.

I was shocked at a one day hopper ticket price for universal. Something like $160. What did I do? Bought a 3-day ticket fo like $200. $160 for one day way too much. $200 for three spread over two trips - not so bad. Seriously considered getting a UOAP. They also got us into the Hard Rock for 2 nights for the first part of that pass. Went down for a Saturday to finish it off.

My current goal for our AP is to get to $50/day. Of course to do that I need a bunch of nights at Disney hotels. We’ve done a couple one day trips which can be nice especially when meeting friends and family.

The longer we live in Florida, the more years we’re passholders, the more visits we accumulate, does that make me more or less likely to keep going? I’d wager more. The year we did 25 park days on our AP made me want to renew even more. We had a lot of non-WDW travel planned so we let our passes expire for ~9 months, but have at least 17 days available to visit from Thanksgiving to spring break.

What I enjoy about APs is not worrying about what an extra day costs or park parking. I’ve dealt wig parking fees at hotels for a long time, so nbd, just a part of the overall price. I bring fruit and other breakfast plus some snacks, water bottles (the $3.50 Dasani was hard to swallow). Share counter service when we can and be selective about table service. All entertainment options are increasingly expensive.

 

[winstongator]

Well we came off a year where we had a CM in family for 8 of past 12 months -say what you will about the DCP kids-they get some great discounts. 4 AP were well worth the price for as many days as we did (and I had about 10 days more than rest of family for about 45 park days). We did go much more this past year than past 10 years previously combined. I wondered if stuff was slower-CM's were offered some great discounts ($69 Wild africa trek? best tour ever!!), plus their blackout for self admit was lifted weeks early this summer, including water park admission, and they got free extra tickets to DHS for month of June.
To answer your question-I felt our "ticket" price was reasonable for the use we got out of them. But it is different with multiple trips and and AP-we never felt we had to "do everything" so we really enjoyed going to parks for few hours, break, maybe go back for a ride or two or show. I am hording the last couple days of my NE tickets from years ago as I think the one day prices now are getting a bit much.

We are done with Disney for awhile now-AP year is over. And the AP discounts are OK but Universal's are better. Have the Premier pass to Universal now and it is nice to get a 15% discount off nearly everything! Heading to HHN for first time next week! Nice with with this level pass is we can use our timeshare and stay offsite for super cheap or use an accommodation certificate for cheap and we still have the after 4 EP. We hadn't been back to Universal in 3 years until this past summer. Will probably combine a beach trip/few days at Universal trip for next summer vacation.

Awesome. It’s been like 20 years since I did my one trip to HHN. EP is great. We got it through our hotel, but getting it with an AP is good to know.

 

[matt9112]

And let's not forget Universal hasn't exactly given guests a reason to visit. Fast and Furious? Who's booking a trip for that? Volcano Bay is popular but it was never going to not be a popular destination. I can see why Universal is a tad healthier but I think they rested a little bit for a while, personally. Yeah, like Disney, they have things planned, things are under construction, but what really pushed guests to want to spend money at the parks this year? TSL and Fast and Furious aren't going to cut it. Many guests are seeing through the festivals now. I see a slow trend towards guests finally having had enough. But I don't think the absolute masses have reached that point like some keep hoping.

This is for everyone, and not a snarky question, but an honest one. What would be a fair price, in everyone's own opinion, for a day at the parks? We all throw out "it's too much", but really, what would we all actually pay? We all know we view value in something differently but just thought it was an interesting question to pose. By asking, it's not saying I agree with their pricing. I don't. But it's not *as* outrageous as it's made out to be, at least for a day's admission to the park (though it still feels too high due to lack of investment; if the parks were where they should be, the price, IMO, while high, would be more reasonable). IMO. Where they lose me is the pricing for food, charging over $20 to park a car, etc. decreasing the experience but continuing to charge for a "premium" experience, etc.

i think 125 or 150 a day is fine IFFFF my crappy cheeseburger was priced as such.....IFFF my crappy plush wasn't 30 dollars. so on and so fourth. thats what gets me its like getting stabbed and than as your limping with your hands out you get shot...ok maybe thats a bad example but lets roll with it.

 

[xdan0920]

Why act surprised when someone gives you a lesson in business 101, when your earlier comment made it appear as if you don't quite grasp even the most basic principles of how business and capitalism work? Do you think my family would not enjoy a fully-staffed slow day at the parks where all wait times were ideal?

Oye.

When you’re selling guest satisfaction, staffing to minimal levels is bad business.

Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

FWIW @CaptainAmerica it looks like in this case I was right about the condescension. So I’m justified. Woohoo.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Hurricanes depressing attendance... or **helping** attendance??!!!

Before Hurricane Florence strikes, evacuees flee to Disney: 'We're leaving for fun.'

Good guy Rosen...

 

[Rodan75]

I was shocked at a one day hopper ticket price for universal. Something like $160. What did I do? Bought a 3-day ticket fo like $200. $160 for one day way too much. $200 for three spread over two trips - not so bad. Seriously considered getting a UOAP. They also got us into the Hard Rock for 2 nights for the first part of that pass. Went down for a Saturday to finish it off.

My current goal for our AP is to get to $50/day. Of course to do that I need a bunch of nights at Disney hotels. We’ve done a couple one day trips which can be nice especially when meeting friends and family.

The longer we live in Florida, the more years we’re passholders, the more visits we accumulate, does that make me more or less likely to keep going? I’d wager more. The year we did 25 park days on our AP made me want to renew even more. We had a lot of non-WDW travel planned so we let our passes expire for ~9 months, but have at least 17 days available to visit from Thanksgiving to spring break.

What I enjoy about APs is not worrying about what an extra day costs or park parking. I’ve dealt wig parking fees at hotels for a long time, so nbd, just a part of the overall price. I bring fruit and other breakfast plus some snacks, water bottles (the $3.50 Dasani was hard to swallow). Share counter service when we can and be selective about table service. All entertainment options are increasingly expensive.

I need to look into that. Was going to day trip to UO next vacation. But it was looking like a $400 day for two ppl to hit both parks.

 

[winstongator]

I need to look into that. Was going to day trip to UO next vacation. But it was looking like a $400 day for two ppl to hit both parks.

I should have added - while I got a better ‘value’ I spent more overall.

 

[Rodan75]

I should have added - while I got a better ‘value’ I spent more overall.

I think that was implied. .

 

[Kman101]

I was shocked at a one day hopper ticket price for universal. Something like $160. What did I do? Bought a 3-day ticket fo like $200. $160 for one day way too much. $200 for three spread over two trips - not so bad. Seriously considered getting a UOAP. They also got us into the Hard Rock for 2 nights for the first part of that pass. Went down for a Saturday to finish it off.

My current goal for our AP is to get to $50/day. Of course to do that I need a bunch of nights at Disney hotels. We’ve done a couple one day trips which can be nice especially when meeting friends and family.

The longer we live in Florida, the more years we’re passholders, the more visits we accumulate, does that make me more or less likely to keep going? I’d wager more. The year we did 25 park days on our AP made me want to renew even more. We had a lot of non-WDW travel planned so we let our passes expire for ~9 months, but have at least 17 days available to visit from Thanksgiving to spring break.

What I enjoy about APs is not worrying about what an extra day costs or park parking. I’ve dealt wig parking fees at hotels for a long time, so nbd, just a part of the overall price. I bring fruit and other breakfast plus some snacks, water bottles (the $3.50 Dasani was hard to swallow). Share counter service when we can and be selective about table service. All entertainment options are increasingly expensive.

For me, I still feel some value as well, but it depends on everyone's personal situation. I live in FL so I have the weekday select pass. It's honestly a solid value for when I can go (and the times I don't want to really go, they're blocked out anyway). The inclusion of parking is partially what kept me with it. I can't say this year I've gone a ton but it had nothing to do with not going out of protest, lol.

I also usually stay when I can get a good deal. I think being semi-local makes it easier. I stay a couple days off site (or go for just the day and drive home but that gets tiring), know where to snag food, bring in my own water, etc.

Back to my question I posed to everyone, I've tried thinking about what the average family who plans once a year (or every few years) and I really don't know if it would even be an option most of the time for me if I were in that situation. It's still doable as a mostly single person who lives an hour-ish away. But I can't imagine the stress it places on a family/group.

So that's one of the reasons I was curious what people felt would be the right price for admission. What would be the right price for food? etc. I mean, many agree the value doesn't match what's offered a lot of times so I was just curious where everyone felt they should be at in terms of pricing. I'm still thinking about it. Should a bottle of water be $2 instead of $3.50? I mean how soon before a bottle of water is $5.00? It's hard because they charge whatever they want and is there ever going to be that tipping point, I wonder?

 

[Kman101]

Awesome. It’s been like 20 years since I did my one trip to HHN. EP is great. We got it through our hotel, but getting it with an AP is good to know.

I like the whole vibe they have going for HHN this year, a lot of the houses interest me and so do some of the zones. I've actually never gone (numerous reasons why, lol) but for some reason they're compelling me to go this year. I considered doing the tour where you can see houses with the lights on, just because the houses themselves interested me but I wasn't thrilled at the price and I think I missed the dates now, not sure, I don't follow HHN that hard. So kudos Universal for getting me with HHN this year. lol. Possibly. LOL

 

[Patcheslee]

For me, I still feel some value as well, but it depends on everyone's personal situation. I live in FL so I have the weekday select pass. It's honestly a solid value for when I can go (and the times I don't want to really go, they're blocked out anyway). The inclusion of parking is partially what kept me with it. I can't say this year I've gone a ton but it had nothing to do with not going out of protest, lol.

I also usually stay when I can get a good deal. I think being semi-local makes it easier. I stay a couple days off site (or go for just the day and drive home but that gets tiring), know where to snag food, bring in my own water, etc.

Back to my question I posed to everyone, I've tried thinking about what the average family who plans once a year (or every few years) and I really don't know if it would even be an option most of the time for me if I were in that situation. It's still doable as a mostly single person who lives an hour-ish away. But I can't imagine the stress it places on a family/group.

So that's one of the reasons I was curious what people felt would be the right price for admission. What would be the right price for food? etc. I mean, many agree the value doesn't match what's offered a lot of times so I was just curious where everyone felt they should be at in terms of pricing. I'm still thinking about it. Should a bottle of water be $2 instead of $3.50? I mean how soon before a bottle of water is $5.00? It's hard because they charge whatever they want and is there ever going to be that tipping point, I wonder?

We are a family of 3 and only made our first trip in 2017. Skipped this year for UNI and plan to go Disney next year. Now that DD is 10 the value has dropped for us some because we had done character meals and to dub a 10yo "adult" price is just a price grab IMO. They aren't considered adult enough to even enter the parks by themselves but old enough to have their parents pay more to enter. If we go for value because of work vacation time allotment and school attendance restrictions we fly to save 2-4 days car travel and stay for a week or more since flights cost so much. Preaty much if it works out to less than 700/day including flight, mod hotel, tickets, souvenir budget, ect it's not too bad but still not something we plan often.

 

[DisneyGirl3820]

I like to check wait times via the app to get a sense on crowd levels before we head to WDW and was completely surprised to see rides like Ariel with a 35 min. wait time. I also haven't been able to get decent FPs for next week. If there's a slowdown, I'm not seeing it from the reservations end of things!

 

[DisneyCane]

Well that’s easy - they charge the same price too...aka “too much”

Both are trying to “create” a mass demographic that is Actually shrinking.

They feel the “middle class” that made $25-75,000 from 1955-2000 needs to exist at $125,000-150,000+ now to give them both the volume and the sweet love to the stock price.

But it’s not gonna hold. The “middle class” has changed permanently...and Disney parks were constructed for them and needs them. Same as universal.

Due to population growth there are more people (not necessarily by percentage but just more people) in the upper-middle and higher classes. Due to this there are more potential customers that can afford the ever more ridiculous Disney prices. The population of the US has increased around 50% since 1970. That's 50% more potential customers. Plus the countries in South America and Europe have had population growth as well adding to the foreign customer pool. Add in airfare being cheaper in adjusted dollars than in 1970 and it allows more people to travel farther to WDW.

If I'm running Disney, if I can have half the customers at double the price, I'll be more profitable because I get the same revenue with much lower staffing.

As long as enough people that can afford it (or have enough credit to charge to a credit card and file bankruptcy later) are willing to pay they can keep going down this path. Eventually there will be a tipping point when upper class people stop seeing the value proposition and stop paying.

 

[John park hopper]

Due to population growth there are more people (not necessarily by percentage but just more people) in the upper-middle and higher classes. Due to this there are more potential customers that can afford the ever more ridiculous Disney prices. The population of the US has increased around 50% since 1970. That's 50% more potential customers. Plus the countries in South America and Europe have had population growth as well adding to the foreign customer pool. Add in airfare being cheaper in adjusted dollars than in 1970 and it allows more people to travel farther to WDW.

If I'm running Disney, if I can have half the customers at double the price, I'll be more profitable because I get the same revenue with much lower staffing.

As long as enough people that can afford it (or have enough credit to charge to a credit card and file bankruptcy later) are willing to pay they can keep going down this path. Eventually there will be a tipping point when upper class people stop seeing the value proposition and stop paying.

I have posted this same thought many times, population growth and crowds go hand in hand. Buy now (credit) may be pay later

 

[geekza]

Touringplans has ratings on their site, both their own and user ratings based on age. I’d imagine they’re similar, but touringplans may not get a representative slice of guests.

It takes a surprisingly-small amount of people to create a representative sample, something I didn't realize until I worked at a HUGE company that utilized customer feedback for nearly all aspects of their business. I'd say that TouringPlans has more than enough surveys completed each year to legitimize their research.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It takes a surprisingly-small amount of people to create a representative sample, something I didn't realize until I worked at a HUGE company that utilized customer feedback for nearly all aspects of their business. I'd say that TouringPlans has more than enough surveys completed each year to legitimize their research.

The problem is that the sample TouringPlans has isn't representative. You need to randomize the sample from the total pool. TP, OTOH, has a self-selecting pool of their users.

E.g., @Disneyhead'71 recently revealed the Uni's Fallon ride has a very high Guest Satisfaction, but, you wouldn't know that from online commentary. This shows that the general public and frequenters of Disney fan sites can have different opinion.

Now, I wouldn't think TP's data is far off, but, it certainly has the ability to be far off in a few cases.

 

[RustySpork]

And let's not forget Universal hasn't exactly given guests a reason to visit. Fast and Furious? Who's booking a trip for that? Volcano Bay is popular but it was never going to not be a popular destination. I can see why Universal is a tad healthier but I think they rested a little bit for a while, personally. Yeah, like Disney, they have things planned, things are under construction, but what really pushed guests to want to spend money at the parks this year? TSL and Fast and Furious aren't going to cut it. Many guests are seeing through the festivals now. I see a slow trend towards guests finally having had enough. But I don't think the absolute masses have reached that point like some keep hoping.

This is for everyone, and not a snarky question, but an honest one. What would be a fair price, in everyone's own opinion, for a day at the parks? We all throw out "it's too much", but really, what would we all actually pay? We all know we view value in something differently but just thought it was an interesting question to pose. By asking, it's not saying I agree with their pricing. I don't. But it's not *as* outrageous as it's made out to be, at least for a day's admission to the park (though it still feels too high due to lack of investment; if the parks were where they should be, the price, IMO, while high, would be more reasonable). IMO. Where they lose me is the pricing for food, charging over $20 to park a car, etc. decreasing the experience but continuing to charge for a "premium" experience, etc.

I'm perfectly OK with the daily ticket prices as they are at all of the parks. I think the silver, gold, and platinum passes at Disney should be about $100 less each though. Where they lose me is the incredibly high prices and severe lack of quality inside the gates. I'm perfectly happy paying a premium, as long as what I'm getting is in return is of equal premium value and quality. That used to be the operating model at WDW, but sadly it's just not anymore.