News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

[Horizons '83]

Uni has been slowly gaining my dollars the last 2 years. Before 2016 I had never been to Uni, but just booked our second trip for Feburary. When pricing both Disney and Uni this what the difference in price was ( and its quite stark):

Universal Package - 2 Adults:
4 Day - 3 Park - Park to Park Ticket
4 Night stay at Loews Royal Pacific with Water View
Unlimited Express Pass
Early Admission
_________________________________________________________
$1,735

Disney Package - 2 Adults:
4 Day Park Hopper Ticket
4 Night Stay at Beach Club Standard View (Using this as an equivalent to The Royal Pacific and assuming a 25% Room Discount when announced)
Magic Hours on 2 of the Days
3 FastPasses per day
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
$2,320

Thats a $600 dollar difference, plus I'll be getting an Unlimited Express Pass which makes the planning part less taxing and a Premium view at a Premium resort at Uni. All in all, I still love Disney but Uni is certainly starting to chip away at our Disney Vacation budget.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Are you under the impression that Disney guests don't day trip up to Universal?

Universal isn't blaming Disney, it's just one of many metrics. Universal has invested quite a bit in their parks and resorts over the last few years, and continues to do so.

Guess you both missed my little sarcasm. Of course Disney guests day trip to Universal. Our grown kids want to do that on their next trip.

As far as investing, yes, Disney until recently was doing a sucky job of it, and should have been investing all along. I just hope it continues past 2021.

I just find it interesting that Universal is partially blaming Disney for a slowdown at their parks. I would think that if fewer are going to Disney, that maybe more would go to Universal, since it's so much cheaper to go there.

 

[RustySpork]

Guess you both missed my little sarcasm. Of course Disney guests day trip to Universal. Our grown kids want to do that on their next trip.

As far as investing, yes, Disney until recently was doing a sucky job of it, and should have been investing all along. I just hope it continues past 2021.

I just find it interesting that Universal is partially blaming Disney for a slowdown at their parks. I would think that if fewer are going to Disney, that maybe more would go to Universal, since it's so much cheaper to go there.

Yep, I'll admit that I completely missed it. You even tagged it properly! FAIL!

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Guess you both missed my little sarcasm. Of course Disney guests day trip to Universal. Our grown kids want to do that on their next trip.

As far as investing, yes, Disney until recently was doing a sucky job of it, and should have been investing all along. I just hope it continues past 2021.

I just find it interesting that Universal is partially blaming Disney for a slowdown at their parks. I would think that if fewer are going to Disney, that maybe more would go to Universal, since it's so much cheaper to go there.

I too missed it. Sorry.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Guess you both missed my little sarcasm. Of course Disney guests day trip to Universal. Our grown kids want to do that on their next trip.

As far as investing, yes, Disney until recently was doing a sucky job of it, and should have been investing all along. I just hope it continues past 2021.

I just find it interesting that Universal is partially blaming Disney for a slowdown at their parks. I would think that if fewer are going to Disney, that maybe more would go to Universal, since it's so much cheaper to go there.

Well this is the biggest question out there...no joke.

There are so many things going on that it’s difficult to make an accurate guess as to what will happen.

The main thing is that iger is trying to parachute out and they’ve got nobody even close to lined up...so who knows what happens to capex?

My instincts are that they do what is going on now and then shut it down and spend 10 years trying to repackage and resell it all...goes to pattern

 

[Brad Bishop]

The economy is built on bubbles...again...so crash is inevitable.

I'm heavily invested in the bubbles commodity market. I also have a good bit invested in beef bullion to take me through the tough times.

 

[T.Will]

I feel like we're quickly jumping to conclusions. From what I can tell, we have maybe two years of a fall slump, and people are saying it's a response to bad practices.

It might be. It might not be.

An attendance fall can have different causes, and I don't think you can track a trend with just two years. If this happens more and more over the years, then we have a downward attendance trend. I could be missing something, but so far this softness doesn't seem to be a sign of things to come.

I believe your complaints are valid but don't allow your grievances to guide you to the wrong answer or worse.

 

[wdwfan22]

Uni has been slowly gaining my dollars the last 2 years. Before 2016 I had never been to Uni, but just booked our second trip for Feburary. When pricing both Disney and Uni this what the difference in price was ( and its quite stark):

Universal Package - 2 Adults:
4 Day - 3 Park - Park to Park Ticket
4 Night stay at Loews Royal Pacific with Water View
Unlimited Express Pass
Early Admission
_________________________________________________________
$1,735

Disney Package - 2 Adults:
4 Day Park Hopper Ticket
4 Night Stay at Beach Club Standard View (Using this as an equivalent to The Royal Pacific and assuming a 25% Room Discount when announced)
Magic Hours on 2 of the Days
3 FastPasses per day
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
$2,320

Thats a $600 dollar difference, plus I'll be getting an Unlimited Express Pass which makes the planning part less taxing and a Premium view at a Premium resort at Uni. All in all, I still love Disney but Uni is certainly starting to chip away at our Disney Vacation budget.

Great deal, however and this is just my opinion, Royal Pacific is more equivalent to Coronado Springs/Wilderness Lodge then the Beach Club.

 

[Horizons '83]

Great deal, however and this is just my opinion, Royal Pacific is more equivalent to Coronado Springs/Wilderness Lodge then the Beach Club.

That’s fair, I would lean towards Wildernesss than Coranado. Obviously Royal isn’t as themed as Wilderness but the actual room accommodations are similar IMO. Even so it’s still a few hundred cheaper and less stressful than what Disney has become.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I'm heavily invested in the bubbles commodity market. I also have a good bit invested in beef bullion to take me through the tough times.

I think I invested in the wrong bubbles...

Universal only "blames" Disney for any attendance softness insomuch as Disney is the reason a lot of people visit Orlando. But they do seem to be stepping up and trying to offer a better experience/value for the vacationer's dollar these days. Their tagline should be, "It all started with a boy..."

I'm very curious to see what Disney ultimately does about the reported softness in park attendance - Do they swing the meat cleaver or do they take a more surgical approach so as to minimize the trauma for the patient?

 

[disneygeek90]

Universal isn't blaming Disney, it's just one of many metrics. Universal has invested quite a bit in their parks and resorts over the last few years, and continues to do so.

Their newest rides (Jimmy/F&F) are incredibly lackluster, though. That's definitely not pulling more people in. If anything they're still riding the HP train.

 

[Horizons '83]

Their newest rides (Jimmy/F&F) are incredibly lackluster, though. That's definitely not pulling more people in. If anything they're still riding the HP train.

Just wait for the new HP Indoor/Outdoor Coaster to open, it will be richly themed and detailed. That will drive many to IOA. Also, if the rumors are true about the Ministry of Magic section opening up in the few years, that will drive a ton as well.

 

[winstongator]

I feel like we're quickly jumping to conclusions. From what I can tell, we have maybe two years of a fall slump, and people are saying it's a response to bad practices.

It might be. It might not be.

An attendance fall can have different causes, and I don't think you can track a trend with just two years. If this happens more and more over the years, then we have a downward attendance trend. I could be missing something, but so far this softness doesn't seem to be a sign of things to come.

I believe your complaints are valid but don't allow your grievances to guide you to the wrong answer or worse.

You get some info in the quarterly reports, but they report numbers on the combined Parks and Resorts segment. They give a qualitative assessment in the comments. The 3 months through June (April, May, June) were good for P&R, but it seemed due to increased spending. The prior quarter, (Jan, Feb, March) was good too and they call out "attendance growth at Walt Disney World Resort". That was when I was last at WDW, Feb, weekend before President's Day weekend. Should be quiet, but we hit a 10/10 day at Animal Kingdom. Then the complaints were 'there is no slow season anymore' and 'they're reducing staffing to make it feel busy all the time'. They report occupancy numbers too, but those don't completely reflect attendance.

The industry report with annual attendance comes out around summertime, so there's a pretty big lag. You'd get some averaging too - Jan/Feb busier, Summer through September slower.

One way they dealt with the decreased attendance 2015-2016 was the 13-12 pass holder promotion. I'm not sure if they do something like that again, and I would wager not.

 

[winstongator]

Great deal, however and this is just my opinion, Royal Pacific is more equivalent to Coronado Springs/Wilderness Lodge then the Beach Club.

What's the price difference for Royal Pacific vs. Hard Rock? We really enjoyed our stay at the Hard Rock. The unlimited express pass was huge!

 

[RustySpork]

Their newest rides (Jimmy/F&F) are incredibly lackluster, though. That's definitely not pulling more people in. If anything they're still riding the HP train.

You're not wrong about JF (2017) or F&F (2018), but they've also opened a lot of other new things in the last 10 years. Kong (2016), Transformers (2002), and of course HP. They're also building the third park, adding Nintendo Land (maybe in that park?), replacing dueling dragons, and building an unannounced attraction where T2 used to be.

There's a lot of activity going on at UO.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Their newest rides (Jimmy/F&F) are incredibly lackluster, though. That's definitely not pulling more people in. If anything they're still riding the HP train.

Fallon has one of the highest GSATs at the resort (87%). It is "Fake News" that people hate it. Because people repeat things on the internet a lot doesn't make it true.

F&F's GSAT is in the mid 60s. Sindbad's is around 43%.

 

[T.Will]

You get some info in the quarterly reports, but they report numbers on the combined Parks and Resorts segment. They give a qualitative assessment in the comments. The 3 months through June (April, May, June) were good for P&R, but it seemed due to increased spending. The prior quarter, (Jan, Feb, March) was good too and they call out "attendance growth at Walt Disney World Resort". That was when I was last at WDW, Feb, weekend before President's Day weekend. Should be quiet, but we hit a 10/10 day at Animal Kingdom. Then the complaints were 'there is no slow season anymore' and 'they're reducing staffing to make it feel busy all the time'. They report occupancy numbers too, but those don't completely reflect attendance.

The industry report with annual attendance comes out around summertime, so there's a pretty big lag. You'd get some averaging too - Jan/Feb busier, Summer through September slower.

One way they dealt with the decreased attendance 2015-2016 was the 13-12 pass holder promotion. I'm not sure if they do something like that again, and I would wager not.

Pretty interesting. Thanks!

 

[disneygeek90]

You're not wrong about JF (2017) or F&F (2018), but they've also opened a lot of other new things in the last 10 years. Kong (2016), Transformers (2002), and of course HP. They're also building the third park, adding Nintendo Land (maybe in that park?), replacing dueling dragons, and building an unannounced attraction where T2 used to be.

There's a lot of activity going on at UO.

There is. But there's also a lot coming for WDW as well.

 

[networkpro]

two reasons
1. TSL never connected with the fans in terms of theme park success
2. Star Wars opens next year

Looks pretty full from my experience on Sunday and Wednesday. There's not much space for people, it's not a new Park.

 

[winstongator]

Fallon has one of the highest GSATs at the resort (87%). It is "Fake News" that people hate it. If people repeat things on the internet a lot doesn't make it true.

F&F's GSAT is in the mid 60s. Sindbad's is around 43%.

Where do you find these numbers? Are numbers for WDW available?