News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You are hard pressed to find DVC rooms that time of year and many others...they’ve flooded a lot of “dead points” into the system over the last ten years that makes bookings harder to come by.

What is a "dead point"?[/QUOTE]

The Polynesian and wilderness lodge bungalows...in the simplest form of explanation.

So those are 90-200 or so points a night...which means a membership to cover a week is around 700 points per year (rough figures for example purposes)

Are they selling 700 point contracts used for those? Some...but mostly “no”

They can take that 700 points and sell it in 150 point increments on separate contracts.

So instead of Wolfgang Von sucklestein jetting down from the hamptons for a week at wilderness cabins...

There are 5 families of 5 searching in the system for studios at boardwalk, contemporary and old key west...
From Columbus, Ohio.

 

[geekza]

Ummmm. if attendance is down, and staffing is reduced to match, where's the problem? At worst, wait times should be about the same.

The problem is that 180 minute waits are unreasonable at any time of the year.

 

[LSLS]

You missed it...

The line for flight of passage can’t be tied directly to gate clicks as it would have been prior to fast pass +

I happened to be in WDW during February when there was a lot of discussion about crowds and staffing...and while attendance was “solid” for that period...If you had checked the lines...it would have looked like the Fourth of July.

130 “standbys” for space mountain....140 for mine train...190+ for flight of passage.

Funny thing...at least with mine train and space you can see the queues.

Particularly on space...where the standby line ended at the top of the ramp by the control booth. There was hardly anyone in it. They just didn’t move.

Same with mine train...where 4 people were let in as I walked by that resulted in a “mock cheer” from those behind them in the line who said they hadn’t moved for over 30 minutes when I asked. That was very amusing/well played.

It’s not hard to figure things out if you’re observant.

Standbys and fastpass worked in consort under the paper system. Now there is a heavy potential for “play”

Want another example? The old priority seating worked well to cut out waits almost altogether. Then they went to hard res - mostly to predict revenues and control labor.

That’s fine...but it’s also why they’ll quote you a 100 minute wait and then you see half tables empty if you walk by the outside windows....
It’s becusee they didn’t staff because you didn’t commit weeks/months out.

I had a very similar experience on our 2 day trip in that time frame, except many of those rides with 100+ minute waits had actual waits around 25 minutes. And this wasn't one ride. I can personally think of 3 rides that took an hour less than what the display said.

But it's interesting that it seems FoP has a lot less wait time later in the day. Seems like everyone floods to it in the morning, then disperse out the rest of the day.

 

[Princess Leia]

When I’m there next month, I’ll try to time the posted ride waits vs actual waits and report back after the trip.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ummmm. if attendance is down, and staffing is reduced to match, where's the problem? At worst, wait times should be about the same.

Because it’s not that simple anymore...as others have described.

There’s a property wide control system in place now...tightly controlled for revenue and overhead tracking as well as research and marketing purposes. There is a heavy push for upsells.

It’s not even conspiracy...it’s common sense.
(Minnie won’t get it at all )

 

[MisterPenguin]

180 minute stand by at 10AM in the morning on a Wednesday... I am still waiting for that significant softness in park attendance....

The parks are dead...

 

[geekza]

But it's interesting that it seems FoP has a lot less wait time later in the day. Seems like everyone floods to it in the morning, then disperse out the rest of the day.

I think that's because so many of the guidebooks and websites tell people they need to get to Pandora first thing in the morning because FastPasses are gone months in advance and it's the only way they'll get on to the attractions. That may have been true for the first few months, but now it seems it's better to wait until before closing because most folks will have left the park by then. AK is still not a big nighttime park.

 

[fngoofy]

So I've been reading that attendance is down in several places, but when I looked for a room opening in Oct & Nov there is only the super high end rooms left. Everything else is sold out.

So which is it?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I had a very similar experience on our 2 day trip in that time frame, except many of those rides with 100+ minute waits had actual waits around 25 minutes. And this wasn't one ride. I can personally think of 3 rides that took an hour less than what the display said.

But it's interesting that it seems FoP has a lot less wait time later in the day. Seems like everyone floods to it in the morning, then disperse out the rest of the day.

I’ve seen that too...overquoting though I’m not sure they would to get to that too much.

But it’s tempting.

Operations wants you neither in the line nor on the rides. If they know you’re back by Italy with the food kiosks...do they want you to go back for a 15 minute wait on soarin?

Follow the money...the temptation of the Apple is always there for a poor gift shop guy like bob chapek.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

There’s a property wide control system in place now...tightly controlled for revenue and overhead tracking as well as research and marketing purposes. There is a heavy push for upsells.

It’s not even conspiracy...it’s common sense.
(Minnie won’t get it at all )

Yup. I suppose they shouldn't use technology this way... because it's... ... ... unseemly? Not what Walt would have done? Doesn't foster the development of "intelligent consumers"? Prices out more people (even though this has always been a reality)? Makes your trip today not precisely what it was 20yrs ago?

 

[wannabeBelle]

What is a "dead point"?

The Polynesian and wilderness lodge bungalows...in the simplest form of explanation.

So those are 90-200 or so points a night...which means a membership to cover a week is around 700 points per year (rough figures for example purposes)

Are they selling 700 point contracts used for those? Some...but mostly “no”

They can take that 700 points and sell it in 150 point increments on separate contracts.

So instead of Wolfgang Von sucklestein jetting down from the hamptons for a week at wilderness cabins...

There are 5 families of 5 searching in the system for studios at boardwalk, contemporary and old key west...
From Columbus, Ohio.[/QUOTE]
Thank you!! My friends do have trouble getting a week long vacation sometimes. through DVC using points. Marie

 

[Gitson Shiggles]

I’m not a real economist; but if I were, I’d recommended lowering prices for significant softness lasting longer than four months.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So I've been reading that attendance is down in several places, but when I looked for a room opening in Oct & Nov there is only the super high end rooms left. Everything else is sold out.

So which is it?

Deluxes havent sold well for going on 10 years (it seems...they won’t admit that)...so you can get heavy discounts through wholesale travel agencies...

But as far as “rooms available”...in the fall that’s deceiving because of packed weekends for events. Lots of Florida and DVC traffic.

You may not get a week...but there maybe tons during the mid week.

WDW operates on a 365 calendar...so any “softness” during Tuesdays is still a major “problem” for them.

 

[LSLS]

The parks are dead...

Go read that thread. Multiple people who say they were there during that week.

We’ve been here since 9/14, leave 9/21. Crowd levels were nice during the week

Same here (slightly different days), but yeah, crowds during the week have been fantastic, rarely more than a handful of people ahead of me in line (for F&W food, rides still have decent lines, but also smaller than other times I've been on most things), plenty of room to move.

I was actually there the same day. It was crowded, but the lines for food were actually not terrible. I think the longest we waited was maybe 5 minutes.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m not a real economist; but if I were, I’d recommended lowering prices for significant softness lasting longer than four months.

I’d call my doctor if “softness” lasted more than 4 hours or there was any heart irregularities

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yup. I suppose they shouldn't use technology this way... because it's... ... ... unseemly? Not what Walt would have done? Doesn't foster the development of "intelligent consumers"? Prices out more people (even though this has always been a reality)? Makes your trip today not precisely what it was 20yrs ago?

Can you just ignore me...please?

I like the sandbox too...but when lunchtime rolls around you need some brain food?

I can’t take the unplanned flip flopping on every post to try to look patronizing clever...

I mean...I used to tell everyone that the free dining coupons during the housing crash while they raised prices was gonna crush everyone...and it has...but after 2014 had to move on. The soapbox collapsed.

I recommend you do the same with your core argument.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Can you just ignore me...please?

I like the sandbox too...but when lunchtime rolls around you need some brain food?

I can’t take the unplanned flip flopping on every post to try to look patronizing clever...

I mean...I used to tell everyone that the free dining coupons during the housing crash while they raised prices was gonna crush everyone...and it has...but after 2014 had to move on. The soapbox collapsed.

I recommend you do the same with your core argument.

You don't think your "sky is falling at WDW" soapbox collapsed a long time ago? Goodness.

I actually was ignoring you since the day after I joined here -- I recognized your condescending rants immediately. Their absence on another board were an improvement to me over there, so I wanted to keep that going here. A couple of discussions became tough to follow so I temporarily unignored. No worries -- it's back on now. I'd say everyone will be happy now, but that's not your bag.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The problem is that 180 minute waits are unreasonable at any time of the year.

We often overlook the obvious.

$119 ticket to go to a place to “experience the concrete”

 

[Disstevefan1]

I happened to be in WDW during February when there was a lot of discussion about crowds and staffing...and while attendance was “solid” for that period...If you had checked the lines...it would have looked like the Fourth of July.

130 “standbys” for space mountain....140 for mine train...190+ for flight of passage.

In February (used to be a slow time) , attendance was “solid” for that period, 130 “standbys” for space mountain....140 for mine train...190+ for flight of passage.

I get it, as you said, 130 “standbys” for space mountain....140 for mine train...190+ for flight of passage is the new normal. and has nothing to do with turnstile clicks.

A "significant softness in park attendance, results in only a 180 minute stand by at 10AM in the morning on a Wednesday since it has nothing to do with turnstile clicks.

I now realize, the guest experience is poor even when there is what is said to be a "significant softness in park attendance. To make it worse, Disney cuts cast member hours in a response to lower turnstile clicks, which worsens the guest experience.

So you have convinced me. Even a "significant softness in park attendance, will do nothing to improve the guest experience, it may even get worse due to cuts in cast member hours. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In February (used to be a slow time) , attendance was “solid” for that period, 130 “standbys” for space mountain....140 for mine train...190+ for flight of passage.

I get it, as you said, 130 “standbys” for space mountain....140 for mine train...190+ for flight of passage is the new normal. and has nothing to do with turnstile clicks.

A "significant softness in park attendance, results in only a 180 minute stand by at 10AM in the morning on a Wednesday since it has nothing to do with turnstile clicks.

I now realize, the guest experience is poor even when there is what is said to be a "significant softness in park attendance. To make it worse, Disney cuts cast member hours in a response to lower turnstile clicks, which worsens the guest experience.

So you have convinced me. Even a "significant softness in park attendance, will do nothing to improve the guest experience, it may even get worse due to cuts in cast member hours. Thanks for clarifying.

I’m sorry if I came off as lecturing - im sure I did but that wasn’t my intent.

I was just illustrating through recent discussions/observations how the pieces in the game have changed. A lot of good things have been brought up just in the last hour...which is why these boards are fun.

From an operational standpoint - there are a million reasons to mess with people using the fastpass computer system now...all leading to money. I still do trust that they aren’t doing it TOO much, however. At least not yet.

They can do whatever they want...you agree to it in the small print on the back of the tickets you don’t even get anymore. Nothing says they can’t slow down the ride wait times to encourage/discourage what they choose.

But keeping waits at a certain level to sell hard tickets? When the daily operational costs are mostly covered and those small duration hard tickets create real profits??
...oh yeah...that’s occurred to them in Burbank and TDO. No question